New tires - went with the venerable Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 4s

TiGeo, I'm surprised you aren't running Pilot Sport 4 or 4S. Congrats on your new tires and wheels anyway.
Wheels are about a year and a half old at this point - they are a good price point and are just under 19 pounds a piece 18x8.5 et45. I didn't get the summers b/c I just don't want to swap them out...AS are fine.
 
I still don’t get strategy here. Possibility of damaging this tire on track in that basically FWD platform is great. Might happen might not. Cheaper is to get 4 max performance tires like Yokohama Advan Apax V601 and some used wheels. Then Michelin’s can last for several seasons.
 
I still don’t get strategy here. Possibility of damaging this tire on track in that basically FWD platform is great. Might happen might not. Cheaper is to get 4 max performance tires like Yokohama Advan Apax V601 and some used wheels. Then Michelin’s can last for several seasons.
The strategy is that I am just doing an HPDE and am in the lowest/green class. I'm just having fun/learning how to drive on a track. No reason to use anything different based on what the club/instructors recommend at this point. Next year, I will likely get some wheels/tires for the track as I'll be a bit more familar with track driving and may be at a point to be able to drive solo. The similar tires I used last year got a little side-wall melt but nothing that was serious or reduced their use or the last year on the road.
 
How did your tires hold up for mileage? I just got a set for my Crown Vic
On a scale of 1 to 5, with 5 being the worse...I'd say it's about 2.5...they've got about 30k on them now and I bought the current set in April 2020. Discount Tire thinks they're wearing unevenly and (completely unrelated) offered me a $300 credit on another set. I think they're okay but this is the quickest I've ever been through a tire's expected life span (45k).
 
I agree with edyvw going track will likely ruin these nice A/S tires. Heat cycling will inevitably affect wet grip.
I always use to recommend dedicated wheels and tires for track use. I'd consider a cheap set of used 16" or 17"
(if you plan on going GTI brakes/BBK) wheels and some appropriate tires - Yoko AD08-RS or similar at least.
To be complete - even Michelin PSS or PS4S will suffer from heat cycling after track use. Ask me how I know.
 
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I agree with edyvw going track will likely ruin these nice A/S tires. Heat cycling will inevitably affect wet grip.
I always use to recommend decated wheels and tires for track use. I'd consider a cheap set of used 16" or 17"
(if you plan on going GTI brakes/BBK) wheels and some appropriate tires - Yoko AD08-RS or similar at least.
To be complete - even Michelin PSS or PS4S will suffer from heat cycling after track use. Ask me how I know.
A/S4 is more geared to snow traction than A/S3 as that one was too “summer “ oriented tire. Once i went AS tires on track bcs. it was too cold, chipped tread block in the curve. It is just bad idea anyway you look at it. And he packs like 350hp in understeering monster.
 
One more reason to not attack these tires with track abuse. Without a question the A/S
will last longer without track use. Another reason: MUCH more fun on appropriate tires
on track. TiGeo, on semislicks you'll likely do HPDEs much more often....
 
I just put the these tires on my 2014 Mustang GT the other day except mine are the A version and not the S ones. Mine are 245/45/R19's. Hopefully they are better than the Pirelli PZero Nero factory tires that were on there. Those have been horrible since about 5,000 miles and loud as can be.
 
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One more reason to not attack these tires with track abuse. Without a question the A/S
will last longer without track use. Another reason: MUCH more fun on appropriate tires
on track. TiGeo, on semislicks you'll likely do HPDEs much more often....
Gents - great that you guys have more experience than me here; it's not a debate, track tires are going to be great on the track. I'm not invested or expereinced enough after 1.5 days of in-car instructed HPDE last year (5 24 min sessions) to be out-driving my tires right now and for my second 2-day HPDE, I'm good on what I have. I had a great time last year and learned a lot on my UHP AS tires that came out un-damaged, no chunks, etc.; tires were the least of my concerns with learning. Instructor drove my car at first and had no issues with how it handled etc. Next year, I'll look to get a set of better tires/wheels but not right now, this is more than adequate for learning as was re-iterated by my instructor last year. The power level of my car isn't through the roof and makes it fun to be able to get up to speed quickly. My biggest car issue last year was the brakes and that was on aggressive street/light track pads and high-temp fluid. The 312mm rotors for a 3400 pound car with no driver/passenger is just not enough for repeating slow downs from high speeds - I have put some larger brakes up front to help out with heat management since last year. In fact, in my instructors feedback received after the event, he called out that I should consider a larger set of front brakes. R compound tires for instance are not allowed in the lowest two classes of this club - effectively street cars with some better brake fluid/pads is what they recommend to start out and I'd say my car is right there. I don't believe anyone in my group was driving anything much different than me and street tires seemed to be the norm.
 
Gents - great that you guys have more experience than me here; it's not a debate, track tires are going to be great on the track. I'm not invested or expereinced enough after 1.5 days of in-car instructed HPDE last year (5 24 min sessions) to be out-driving my tires right now and for my second 2-day HPDE, I'm good on what I have. I had a great time last year and learned a lot on my UHP AS tires that came out un-damaged, no chunks, etc.; tires were the least of my concerns with learning. Instructor drove my car at first and had no issues with how it handled etc. Next year, I'll look to get a set of better tires/wheels but not right now, this is more than adequate for learning as was re-iterated by my instructor last year. The power level of my car isn't through the roof and makes it fun to be able to get up to speed quickly. My biggest car issue last year was the brakes and that was on aggressive street/light track pads and high-temp fluid. The 312mm rotors for a 3400 pound car with no driver/passenger is just not enough for repeating slow downs from high speeds - I have put some larger brakes up front to help out with heat management since last year. In fact, in my instructors feedback received after the event, he called out that I should consider a larger set of front brakes. R compound tires for instance are not allowed in the lowest two classes of this club - effectively street cars with some better brake fluid/pads is what they recommend to start out and I'd say my car is right there. I don't believe anyone in my group was driving anything much different than me and street tires seemed to be the norm.
I think you are underestimating yourself.
First of all, you are not novice driver. Second, you racked up already some experience.
Third, I personally would not go track tire like R71 etc. Two reasons:
1. Really hard on suspension.
2. No progressive loss of traction. They hd like crazy, but when they lose traction; holy moly.

Max performance tires (since you are not getting paid for this, you don’t have to go PSS) will allow you to slide, lose traction progressively. For me personally it is not big deal switching tires. Reason is that I always like to check suspension before track day and usually change fluid. So wheels going down anyway.
If you plan to get next year tires, yeah maybe in colder weather you won’t wear them out too much. But get them, your brakes will like it too.
 
I'm not invested or expereinced enough after 1.5 days of in-car instructed HPDE last year (5 24 min sessions) to be out-driving my tires right now and for my second 2-day HPDE, I'm good on what I have. I had a great time last year and learned a lot on my UHP AS tires that came out un-damaged, no chunks, etc.; tires were the least of my concerns with learning.

See what I said about heat cycling. Your A/S will get worse over time and you'll notice it some day in particular on wet surfaces when it's cold. Since your PS A/S 4 are new I thought I'll mention that early enough.


Next year, I'll look to get a set of better tires/wheels

It's gonna be a whole new experience. I bet you'll love it!


My biggest car issue last year was the brakes and that was on aggressive street/light track pads and high-temp fluid. The 312mm rotors for a 3400 pound car with no driver/passenger is just not enough for repeating slow downs from high speeds - I have put some larger brakes up front to help out with heat management since last year. In fact, in my instructors feedback received after the event, he called out that I should consider a larger set of front brakes.

Guess why I mentioned the brakes. It isn't all about size. Please don't underestimate ventilation. Stock there's exactly NONE. Removing or modifying heat shields, adding RS3/TT air guides or even hoses etc. - that's the common approach on a VW. Whatever size you're going - directionally vented rotors are prefered. My GTI is just about 3000 pounds, 245 HP and however has the 340&310mm brakes, both vented. Not sure if it'll see a track some day. I use to no longer use any of my private cars for track use. My company either hires cars for that purpose or our customers provide them. Anyways, quite logical at 3400 lbs and 3XX HP the stock 312/272? mm rotors have a hard time dissipating all the heat.


R compound tires for instance are not allowed in the lowest two classes of this club - effectively street cars with some better brake fluid/pads is what they recommend to start out and I'd say my car is right there.

I wasn't aware of that.
There was a time I had three sets of tires per car as a minimum and I used to swap tires every weekend. I feel too old for that hassle. I still swap tires depending on season on my dailies though. PSS for summer on both Mini and GTI, PS4 on 930 (16", no PSS available).
 
Also, with recent cars that have electronic brake distribution, it's like having a balance bar that gets adjusted on the fly. While in the days before EBD there was very little point in upgrading rear brakes, it now pays to make sure the rears can do their fair share or more. Hence the GTI coming with 310mm vented rears. It also helps a LOT if you let off the brakes during trailbraking to get some sterring in, while the rears can still do a meaningful amount of braking.

Having the energy expended effectively over 4 brakes instead of 2 (even with a front heavy FWD car) is often all you need to avoid brake fade.

Got 330/292 both vented on my car with 200 ish bhp, it also helps if VDC is used to create some yaw. You get more turn-in early in the bend
 
Also, with recent cars that have electronic brake distribution, it's like having a balance bar that gets adjusted on the fly. While in the days before EBD there was very little point in upgrading rear brakes, it now pays to make sure the rears can do their fair share or more. Hence the GTI coming with 310mm vented rears.

A Sportwagen/Variant 4motion would make much more use out of bigger rears than my GTI ever could.
.
 
Guess why I mentioned the brakes. It isn't all about size. Please don't underestimate ventilation. Stock there's exactly NONE. Removing or modifying heat shields, adding RS3/TT air guides or even hoses etc. - that's the common approach on a VW. Whatever size you're going - directionally vented rotors are prefered. My GTI is just about 3000 pounds, 245 HP and however has the 340&310mm brakes, both vented. Not sure if it'll see a track some day. I use to no longer use any of my private cars for track use. My company either hires cars for that purpose or our customers provide them. Anyways, quite logical at 3400 lbs and 3XX HP the stock 312/272? mm rotors have a hard time dissipating all the heat.
I run the RS3 ducts and have for quite a while. The APR brake kit I have is really nice and has directional veined 350mm rotors should help with cooling. My rears are solid 272mm. It's quite a PITA to do larger rears on this car b/c I have the mechanical parking brake, there are 310mm options but I think I'll be sorted now. My car came stock with 288s up front BTW - the 312 base GTI/Alltrack fronts I have was an upgrade. After the first session last year they were cooked. Had to go find new rotors and swapped pads and re-bleed/flushed the fluid with Motul RBF600. That got me through the rest with low drama but still...they weren't great at times.
 
See what I said about heat cycling. Your A/S will get worse over time and you'll notice it some day in particular on wet surfaces when it's cold. Since your PS A/S 4 are new I thought I'll mention that early enough.




It's gonna be a whole new experience. I bet you'll love it!




Guess why I mentioned the brakes. It isn't all about size. Please don't underestimate ventilation. Stock there's exactly NONE. Removing or modifying heat shields, adding RS3/TT air guides or even hoses etc. - that's the common approach on a VW. Whatever size you're going - directionally vented rotors are prefered. My GTI is just about 3000 pounds, 245 HP and however has the 340&310mm brakes, both vented. Not sure if it'll see a track some day. I use to no longer use any of my private cars for track use. My company either hires cars for that purpose or our customers provide them. Anyways, quite logical at 3400 lbs and 3XX HP the stock 312/272? mm rotors have a hard time dissipating all the heat.




I wasn't aware of that.
There was a time I had three sets of tires per car as a minimum and I used to swap tires every weekend. I feel too old for that hassle. I still swap tires depending on season on my dailies though. PSS for summer on both Mini and GTI, PS4 on 930 (16", no PSS available).
My hang up is wheels - I'm not going to go have Discount Tire remove/install tires a whole bunch. I'll get another set at some point and set them up with some better performance tires for sure. By then I think I'll appreciate the extra grip!
 
NA spec GTI Performance models did come with the 310 mm rears and mechanical PB, right?
I have the EPB because Euro spec. Nice APR BBK btw..
Yes, PP GTIs, S3, and the R come with the 340 f/310 r brakes. Base GTIs at one point came with the 312/272s same as the A3 and Alltrack.
 
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