New tires - went with the venerable Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 4s

[Jetronic]

A Sportwagen/Variant 4motion would make much more use out of bigger rears than my GTI ever could.
.

True but I went from 330/278 to 330/292 and piston size 38 to 41. It's very noticeable and reduces the heat the fronts have to reject quite a bit.

Rear brakes became 50% more powerful, with 50% more mass in the swept area and vented now (brembo pillar vent front and back).

If you'd went with the smaller rears you'd notice it. Could be good if you don't trailbrake or don't like what vdc does when you corner, some seem to prefer that and go to smaller rears.

 

[edyvw]

Also, with recent cars that have electronic brake distribution, it's like having a balance bar that gets adjusted on the fly. While in the days before EBD there was very little point in upgrading rear brakes, it now pays to make sure the rears can do their fair share or more. Hence the GTI coming with 310mm vented rears. It also helps a LOT if you let off the brakes during trailbraking to get some sterring in, while the rears can still do a meaningful amount of braking.

Having the energy expended effectively over 4 brakes instead of 2 (even with a front heavy FWD car) is often all you need to avoid brake fade.

Got 330/292 both vented on my car with 200 ish bhp, it also helps if VDC is used to create some yaw. You get more turn-in early in the bend

You should see what one track day does to my rear brakes. Have set of Brembo's from 135 ready for next year. Hopefully that improves longevity. Front are getting 4 pot Brembo from F30 335.

 

[Jetronic]

You should see what one track day does to my rear brakes. Have set of Brembo's from 135 ready for next year. Hopefully that improves longevity. Front are getting 4 pot Brembo from F30 335.

I know, some people managed to cook their rear brakes on my old setup, part of the reason to upgrade. I don't usually drive on brake heavy tracks but I might in future.

 

[edyvw]

I know, some people managed to cook their rear brakes on my old setup, part of the reason to upgrade. I don't usually drive on brake heavy tracks but I might in future.

My issue is not cooking or fading. I just obliterate the pad. 328 has ediff. and like 10 other brake functions that do not turn off once I turn off DTC. Now I have EBC yellow stuff and front are OK, but rear is maybe, maybe one more track day or half a day. Another problem is that I installed oil cooler, and this thing now can do like 24hrs Le Mans when it comes to engine performance. So after like an hour on track, that is when I can notice brake fade. Hence, going with front Brembo's from 335 (340X30mm) and rear from 135 (324x22mm).

 

[Jetronic]

Yes, mine has e-diff aswell, on the front of course. I managed to reduce that to the point I don't notice it anymore by reducing understeer. But on a RWD it's not as easy to do. The ones I mentioned also obliterated new pads in a day on track, must be the vdc inducing yaw as they have it on tracks like Zandvoort and Zolder. Lot's of brake issues on Zolder apparently.

I just got blue discs up front, no other effects so far, but the blueing is absent for now 330x28 front and 292x22 rear, good enough for me

 

[edyvw]

Yes, mine has e-diff aswell, on the front of course. I managed to reduce that to the point I don't notice it anymore by reducing understeer. But on a RWD it's not as easy to do. The ones I mentioned also obliterated new pads in a day on track, must be the vdc inducing yaw as they have it on tracks like Zandvoort and Zolder. Lot's of brake issues on Zolder apparently.

I just got blue discs up front, no other effects so far, but the blueing is absent for now 330x28 front and 292x22 rear, good enough for me

Yeah, ediff here is rear.
I Will see if this setup works. If not, I might go rear from E90 335, they are single-piston 336x22mm.

 

[Jetronic]

What size do you have currently in the back? From what youy tell me it's cooling you need, but if you go from solid to vented that's often enough. Depending on how airflow goes in the rear the vented discs can improve cooling rates by 50% or more. If you also go bigger the rate is even higher and you will also increase thermal mass

 

[edyvw]

What size do you have currently in the back? From what youy tell me it's cooling you need, but if you go from solid to vented that's often enough. Depending on how airflow goes in the rear the vented discs can improve cooling rates by 50% or more. If you also go bigger the rate is even higher and you will also increase thermal mass

They are vented. All E90’s have vented rear brakes. 300X20mm currently. Good thing is 328i xDrive has same parking brakes as 335 and there was performance option that had 6 pot Brembo in front (336x24mm) and 324x22mm two pot in the back. I am going performance set up in the back, but front I am going from F30 as those 6 pot had issues with piston cracking on the track. Plus 340x30mm will dissipate heat faster (currently 312x24mm). Another good thing is BMW has option to code brakes. Once coding is executed, EBD is changed to performance setting and adjusts boosting due to more pistons involved. Don’t forget, I pack only 230hp but will do some intake swapping soon and EXU adjustment so it will be around 260 on crank.

 

[930.engineering]

Good point. Coding. On a VW Golf I'd strongly suggest to set the emergency brake assist (perhaps HBA in VCDS) to the least intrusive setting. There are three. Default setting for a Euro spec GTI is medium. No idea what VW uses on a NA spec Sportwaggon. Definitely worth looking before you enter a track or twisties. With the factory setting when jumping quickly onto the brakes you'd have no control about brake pressure. This is a very important and highly underrated point on any Mk5/6/7 Golf/GTI/R/A3/S3/TT/Leon etc..

 

[edyvw]

Good point. Coding. On a VW Golf I'd strongly suggest to set the emergency brake assist (perhaps HBA in VCDS) to the least intrusive setting. There are three. Default setting for a Euro spec GTI is medium. No idea what VW uses on a NA spec Sportwaggon. Definitely worth looking before you enter a track or twisties. With the factory setting when jumping quickly onto the brakes you'd have no control about brake pressure. This is a very important and highly underrated point on any Mk5/6/7 Golf/GTI/R/A3/S3/TT/Leon etc..

BMW coding literally says: performance brakes vehicle order. Very simple. Another cool thing is that if pedal is still bit softer, M3 master cylinder is bolt on with 1mm larger front brake part.
To me it seems there is more work around VW when it comes to these things and not as straightforward.

 

[TiGeo]

I run the XDS at weak (e-diff) which uses the inside brakes to help you turn through corners/work on the understeer. The rest of my braking settings I leave alone. Folks like to turn of straight ahead brake stabilization and you can play with the brake booster and hydraulic brake assist settings....I leave it all alone and TBH, as much coding work/research as I've done, I don't always thiknk folks actually understand what many of these settings do....lots of placebo going on IMHO for some of them. I run my ECS in sport mode for fun time driving but can turn it off completely (ECS OFF) which will allow more tire squeal or some fun snow donuts!; coded my traction control/stability control button this way like it comes stock on the R. Finally, I have the United Motorsport Haldex tune which is slick...removes the torque limit for sending power back with the Haldex so now that I'm a bit over 2x stock power level, I get up to the true 50% torque transfer depending on the situation and it's great powering out of turns.

 

[TiGeo]

~4 mos and ~5K miles including 2 track days, a mountain hooning road rally, and a Mid-Atlantic snow storm. So far still impressed with these as an all arounder. They did well in the snow or at least "good enough" for the type of event we get in central-VA...4" of snow that was mostly gone the next day and it was 70 the day prior. Had some fun doing snow donuts in the local parking lot. Even with the outer edge damage from the track these are still quiet on the road. Obviously not the best choice to go to the track with but they did work for my skill level. Have a set of summers and spare wheels now for this year. I'd 100% buy these again as my daily all year tires.

 

[930.engineering]

I run the XDS at weak (e-diff) which uses the inside brakes to help you turn through corners/work on the understeer.

While that makes plenty of sense with stock 312 mm rotors, not necessary perhaps with the BBK.
It's probably a good idea testing how good the BBK handles track duty, and then if it doesn't get
too hot try the factory XDS setting again.

The rest of my braking settings I leave alone.

Leaving the Emergency Brake/Hydraulic Brake Assist setting alone is a mistake. It makes a huge
difference with just costing you five minutes of your time if you have VCDS. I'd say it's a must do.

That said, I'd also reconsider upgrading to vented 310 mm rear rotors. I'm going to do a similar
mod to our little Cooper even though it won't ever see any track use. Stock is 280 mm front and
259 mm rear, same as any R55/R56 One, Cooper and even Cooper SD. It's quite easy to upgrade
to Cooper S (not SD) 294 mm fronts and JCW 280 mm rears as the calipers remain the same and
I just need the corresponding carriers, rotors and pads. I'm aware you'd need new calipers but it
will be worth the effort I bet as it will very most probably work much more in harmony with the
BBK on front.
.

 

[TiGeo]

While that makes plenty of sense with stock 312 mm rotors, not necessary perhaps with the BBK.
It's probably a good idea testing how good the BBK handles track duty, and then if it doesn't get
too hot try the factory XDS setting again.




Leaving the Emergency Brake/Hydraulic Brake Assist setting alone is a mistake. It makes a huge
difference with just costing you five minutes of your time if you have VCDS. I'd say it's a must do.

That said, I'd also reconsider upgrading to vented 310 mm rear rotors. I'm going to do a similar
mod to our little Cooper even though it won't ever see any track use. Stock is 280 mm front and
259 mm rear, same as any R55/R56 One, Cooper and even Cooper SD. It's quite easy to upgrade
to Cooper S (not SD) 294 mm fronts and JCW 280 mm rears as the calipers remain the same and
I just need the corresponding carriers, rotors and pads. I'm aware you'd need new calipers but it
will be worth the effort I bet as it will very most probably work much more in harmony with the
BBK on front.
.

BBK did fine on track/no drama...certainly can look at going back to XDS standard....I just don't think it's doing much anyway.

What exactly, quantitatively, do these other settings do? I've farted around with all of them and just never seen that it does much but that was on the street for sure.

I'd love to have the GTI PP 310s out back (or I believe the MK6 R had the same) - hard to come by but always looking....I never have felt that current setup feel strange or unbalanced.

 

[930.engineering]

The brake assist/HBA thing?

 

[TiGeo]

The brake assist/HBA thing?

Yes

 

[930.engineering]

.
The emergency brake assist/HBA is a safety feature common on most cars for 20 years.
It's probably easiest to explain the consequences of VCDS settings by understanding the
EBA/HBA itself. From former surveys it's well known that most drivers apply brake force
in emergency stop situations way too hesitantly and too infirmly, wasting precious feet
of stopping distance. Many fear ABS operation noise. To compensate for this common
issue electronics watch over the driver's braking action. If the driver is laying off the gas
pedal rapidly and then is stepping on the brake again quickly, the EBA will detect an
emergency brake case and release FULL braking pressure including ABS activation.
Obviously this is withdrawing control from the driver and you don't want that on track.
As a driver particular on track you unconditionally want to maintain control yourself to
be able to modulate brake pressure at the limit. The EBA/HBA deprives you of that ability.
On track any overly intrusive stability control systems are irrittating and annoying. You
want to brake as close to the grip/ABS-invention limit as possible. The HBA hampers
you to do that.
From what I know you have the choice of three settings only anyway. As a consequence
you have little risk to make a mistake. All three will work on daily driving but the least
intrusive setting is the one that works best on track by far.
.

 

[Jetronic]

I still think you're leaving a lot of performance on the table by going with all-seasons.

I drive a FWD diesel, and it can pull 0.8G in first and second gear. That's my traction limit being FWD. This is on crossclimates or the Hankook Ventus V12 evo2. Winter tyres the traction limit is 0.6G first, second and third gear. brakes are limited to 1.2/1.3G but hard to see as it goes so fast and I only have a real-time readout. Will see if I can log the sensors through diagnostics when the new laptop finally arrives.

With better tyres I might get up to 0.85G. 200 Bhp + some overboost if conditions are right, say 215 bhp max. With unlimited grip I have the power to do 1.6G in 1st gear (which is up to 25 mph) and abou 0.9G in 2nd (up to 40 mph)

Your car with AWD should be able to acellerate as fast as it can brake in lower gears. You have the power and can send it to the right wheels. So how fast can you go 60 - 0? You should be able to reach 1.2G in both directions imo....

 

[TiGeo]

I still think you're leaving a lot of performance on the table by going with all-seasons.

I drive a FWD diesel, and it can pull 0.8G in first and second gear. That's my traction limit being FWD. This is on crossclimates or the Hankook Ventus V12 evo2. Winter tyres the traction limit is 0.6G first, second and third gear. brakes are limited to 1.2/1.3G but hard to see as it goes so fast and I only have a real-time readout. Will see if I can log the sensors through diagnostics when the new laptop finally arrives.

With better tyres I might get up to 0.85G. 200 Bhp + some overboost if conditions are right, say 215 bhp max. With unlimited grip I have the power to do 1.6G in 1st gear (which is up to 25 mph) and abou 0.9G in 2nd (up to 40 mph)

Your car with AWD should be able to acellerate as fast as it can brake in lower gears. You have the power and can send it to the right wheels. So how fast can you go 60 - 0? You should be able to reach 1.2G in both directions imo....

0-60 and 60 to 0. Not having any traction issues but sure summer tires should be a bit better in warmer temps.and shave some braking distance and *maybe* improve my 60'. Keep in mind it was below freezing for the 0-60 run and that was on my previous Conti Control Contact Sport SRS all seasons. I suspect it would be the same with the PS4 ASs on there now. Not seeing "a lot of performance" lying around. My car is 3400 lbs with ~380 crank hp/~350 crank torque or in that ballpark.

 

[TiGeo]

Here's a recent 0-60 on the Michelins. Same story. 3.91 is my all time best but I was down on weight to get that and a touch lower temp/DA.