New Red Line Oil High Performance 0W-20 and 0W-30 API SP elemental analysis

Foxtrot08

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Since Redline is dropping the ball and the “informed” consumer that used to purchase their products no longer has any clue what exactly is in the bottle, they are inadvertently driving plenty of business onto HPL’s doorstep, and rightly so.

Today’s Redline does not seem to realize they no longer occupy a unicorn position in the market, and will eventually be left behind as a product of their own making.


Redline can afford to buy volume later on. And they have an extensive network to do that with.
 
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Since Redline is dropping the ball and the “informed” consumer that used to purchase their products no longer has any clue what exactly is in the bottle, they are inadvertently driving plenty of business onto HPL’s doorstep, and rightly so.

Today’s Redline does not seem to realize they no longer occupy a unicorn position in the market, and will eventually be left behind as a product of their own making.
If the SP oils are in a sense "boosted" like Amsoil SS, I'm all for it. None of the cars I've driven in the last 25 years need that much ZDP anyway.

What made RL unique to me was their emphasis on using a good amount of POE base oil. So if it's a stout PAO/POE they'll still be competitive IMO.
 
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Redline can afford to buy volume later on. And they have an extensive network to do that with.
If I understand correctly what you’re implying, the only way they’d really be able to do that is to sacrifice a good bit of the difference between their current pricing and shelf-stock oils, correct? To me, that would only further highlight their cost-cutting methods, but then again I’m not an insider.

I do know that now that I’ve seen information on HPL and the oversight/carelessness/disregard of RL in roughly the same market segments and price, my dollars won’t likely ever go to RL again. 👍🏻
 
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They have the OEM line for that. A lot of race engines rely on the high ZDDP and Mo in the HP line of oils. I really hope we don't start seeing widespread cam failures from this. The first one on my mind is a solid flat tappet cam that's 256 / 264 @ .050", .622" / .621" lift, and >500 lbs spring pressure over the nose with 1.7 rockers. With just 877 ppm phosphorus in the new formula, I don't see that cam surviving that very long. He already ordered the oil last week, supposed to be delivered tomorrow. He's pretty ticked off right now, as am I. A warning from Red Line that the ZDDP is being reduced would've been really appreciated.
Just need to order some Redline race oil and blend 10-25% to get that feel good insurance level of zddp.

Racing oils... my favorite snake oil additive. My 5-6.5 quart sumps usually start with a quart, then topped off with the 4-5.5 quarts of whatever oil I have left from the local rebate/clearance shelf.
 
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I got response from Dave @ RL who verified that it's only the 0W-20 and 0W-30 SP oils, and the 5W-30 and 5W-40 Euro oils, that getting ZDDP reduced. Phew.
 

Foxtrot08

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If I understand correctly what you’re implying, the only way they’d really be able to do that is to sacrifice a good bit of the difference between their current pricing and shelf-stock oils, correct? To me, that would only further highlight their cost-cutting methods, but then again I’m not an insider.

I do know that now that I’ve seen information on HPL and the oversight/carelessness/disregard of RL in roughly the same market segments and price, my dollars won’t likely ever go to RL again. 👍🏻

No. They can move gallons through existing distribution networks. Summit racing. And all P66 marketers.

If they turn to every P66 marketer come February at our marketer meetings, give us some incentive to sell redline (which they never have) - they could easily move hundreds of thousands of gallons if they wanted to.

Thus “buying” gallons - they simply cut the price.
 
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No. They can move gallons through existing distribution networks. Summit racing. And all P66 marketers.

If they turn to every P66 marketer come February at our marketer meetings, give us some incentive to sell redline (which they never have) - they could easily move hundreds of thousands of gallons if they wanted to.

Thus “buying” gallons - they simply cut the price.
Yeah, that’s what I thought I said… oh you’re saying they’re just cutting price on the supply side (to the distributor) not on the demand side (to the customer). They’re just cutting the wholesale price, effectively. Got it, took a minute. Thanks!
 

OVERKILL

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If the SP oils are in a sense "boosted" like Amsoil SS, I'm all for it. None of the cars I've driven in the last 25 years need that much ZDP anyway.

What made RL unique to me was their emphasis on using a good amount of POE base oil. So if it's a stout PAO/POE they'll still be competitive IMO.
I mean, you can get the higher levels of ZDDP just going with a Full-SAPS oil from the @High Performance Lubricants lineup.
 
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Weird they only made the 0w20/30 grades SP. Wonder what their reasoning is? I guess most cars now use 20 grades?
 

Rod Knock

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Weird they only made the 0w20/30 grades SP. Wonder what their reasoning is?
Deeper market penetration and reach. You forgot Red Line HP 0W-16, which I have yet to see in the wild. I'm not sure they realize that most people using such motor oils that want to treat their vehicles a bit better will "splurge" on that Mobil 1 Extended Performance. :rolleyes:

I guess most cars now use 20 grades?
The difference between ILSAC 20 and 30 grades is nearly insignificant. There is a difference, but you can safely run 5W-30 in anything that calls for 0W-20.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

I started this thread with the intention to share the information that I have. In no way do I endorse the bashing of any product. I like constructive criticism, and as a Red Line customer I voiced that criticism to Red Line every chance that I got.

I believe they're making excellent products.

I also believe that it's a mistake to split up the High Performance product line into different product types. It creates confusion, and might lead to some broken engines, as @RDY4WAR explained. Red Line should have created a new High Performance lineup for these new blends. Simply calling it Daily High Performance or something along those lines, while explaining in a few sentences what it is would have been much better and avoided confusion and probably some angry customers.

Lack of transparency is another big issue with Red Line. They have to stop acting so cryptic because there is enough knowledge out there so we know that it's not the Wizard of Oz who makes the lubricants with ingredients from a parallel universe.

The last one: Red Line consistently fails to update their website with up-to-date and accurate information about their products. If they don't have a Webmaster on staff that handles their website, they need to hire one. And if they do, they either need to get that person to do their job or hire someone else. There are specifications on that website that haven't been updated in 6~7 years. Common! It can't be that hard. I know that others are failing or botching this task as well, Mobil and Shell included. Castrol, at the very least, is doing a somewhat decent job via their MSDS-PDS portal. But Red Line is an enthusiast brand, and enthusiasts have a keen eye for the little details, including their website.
 

Foxtrot08

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Deeper market penetration and reach. You forgot Red Line HP 0W-16, which I have yet to see in the wild. I'm not sure they realize that most people using such motor oils that want to treat their vehicles a bit better will "splurge" on that Mobil 1 Extended Performance. :rolleyes:


The difference between ILSAC 20 and 30 grades is nearly insignificant. There is a difference, but you can safely run 5W-30 in anything that calls for 0W-20.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

I started this thread with the intention to share the information that I have. In no way do I endorse the bashing of any product. I like constructive criticism, and as a Red Line customer I voiced that criticism to Red Line every chance that I got.

I believe they're making excellent products.

I also believe that it's a mistake to split up the High Performance product line into different product types. It creates confusion, and might lead to some broken engines, as @RDY4WAR explained. Red Line should have created a new High Performance lineup for these new blends. Simply calling it Daily High Performance or something along those lines, while explaining in a few sentences what it is would have been much better and avoided confusion and probably some angry customers.

Lack of transparency is another big issue with Red Line. They have to stop acting so cryptic because there is enough knowledge out there so we know that it's not the Wizard of Oz who makes the lubricants with ingredients from a parallel universe.

The last one: Red Line consistently fails to update their website with up-to-date and accurate information about their products. If they don't have a Webmaster on staff that handles their website, they need to hire one. And if they do, they either need to get that person to do their job or hire someone else. There are specifications on that website that haven't been updated in 6~7 years. Common! It can't be that hard. I know that others are failing or botching this task as well, Mobil and Shell included. Castrol, at the very least, is doing a somewhat decent job via their MSDS-PDS portal. But Red Line is an enthusiast brand, and enthusiasts have a keen eye for the little details, including their website.

Oh come on.

They’ve promised the distributors an updated Lubestream for 8 years now. And you expect them to be timely updating a website?


Shell’s implementation of SAP back in the day was telling distributors it was going to be 16 months to order a truck load of grease.

These companies don’t do ANYTHING fast. It took shell 5 months to figure out we stopped paying them because they kept charging us tax on oil, from DIFFERENT COUNTRIES.
 

Rod Knock

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they kept charging us tax on oil, from DIFFERENT COUNTRIES
Incompetence = Profit?

Lubestream
What's that?

Shell’s implementation of SAP back in the day was telling distributors it was going to be 16 months to order a truck load of grease.
Bureaucracy -> Scarcity -> Higher Profits

How good is Red Line oil overall at preventing wear and keeping the internals clean versus other brands?
 

Foxtrot08

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Incompetence = Profit?


What's that?


Bureaucracy -> Scarcity -> Higher Profits

How good is Red Line oil overall at preventing wear and keeping the internals clean versus other brands?

Just the lubricants side of major oil companies isn’t a focus. It’s such a small aspect of the company, they don’t pay attention to it much. Basically, it’s the place where people go to retire.

If your RDS - light ends, chemicals, polymers, exploration, trading - that’s where the big money is.

Lubestream is P66’s distributor portal system. What we use to place orders / pricing / training / news / etc. and it’s been a piece of **** since day 1.


Too many variables to tell Redline vs other brands. Driving conditions, vehicle conditions, how the driver operates the vehicle, start stop, etc.

Unpopular opinion here: If you analytically look at the B10 of an engine life. It statistically won’t change no matter the brand oil you use, assuming it’s in spec to the oem.

So by going above and beyond the oem minimum spec, it’s on your personal preference on how you spend your money. If you’re asking me which is better like Redline vs HPL - it’s impossible to give that answer due to the above questions. You could set both up to fail.

If you’re going to ask me Redline vs Dollar general 5w30… well, yeah - redline. Because it’s doubtful DG 5w30 meets SP spec.

TL;DR - use the product that brings the best value to you, personally. As long as it meets your specs. Me trying to sit here and bash Mobil, or castrol, or really anyone who sells a GF6/SP oil is silly and nothing but purse swinging.

I use Kendall Max 5w30 in my personal F150. Why? Because I have a tank of it in my shop. Could I use redline 0w30? Yup. Would it be better on paper? Probably. Why don’t I? Not going to change the engine life in my f150. It’s got 105k on it. Next year when it hits a 120k I get a new one and that goes into fleet service. I have F150s with over 300k miles on them from sales reps that have had 0 engine issues. Life of Kendall max 5w30.

… they would of made it the same distance with Mobil, pennzoil, castrol, redline, etc. because the service intervals. This is why I’m professionally brand agnostic.
 

Rod Knock

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Just the lubricants side of major oil companies isn’t a focus. It’s such a small aspect of the company, they don’t pay attention to it much. Basically, it’s the place where people go to retire.

If your RDS - light ends, chemicals, polymers, exploration, trading - that’s where the big money is.

Lubestream is P66’s distributor portal system. What we use to place orders / pricing / training / news / etc. and it’s been a piece of **** since day 1.


Too many variables to tell Redline vs other brands. Driving conditions, vehicle conditions, how the driver operates the vehicle, start stop, etc.

Unpopular opinion here: If you analytically look at the B10 of an engine life. It statistically won’t change no matter the brand oil you use, assuming it’s in spec to the oem.

So by going above and beyond the oem minimum spec, it’s on your personal preference on how you spend your money. If you’re asking me which is better like Redline vs HPL - it’s impossible to give that answer due to the above questions. You could set both up to fail.

If you’re going to ask me Redline vs Dollar general 5w30… well, yeah - redline. Because it’s doubtful DG 5w30 meets SP spec.

TL;DR - use the product that brings the best value to you, personally. As long as it meets your specs. Me trying to sit here and bash Mobil, or castrol, or really anyone who sells a GF6/SP oil is silly and nothing but purse swinging.

I use Kendall Max 5w30 in my personal F150. Why? Because I have a tank of it in my shop. Could I use redline 0w30? Yup. Would it be better on paper? Probably. Why don’t I? Not going to change the engine life in my f150. It’s got 105k on it. Next year when it hits a 120k I get a new one and that goes into fleet service. I have F150s with over 300k miles on them from sales reps that have had 0 engine issues. Life of Kendall max 5w30.

… they would of made it the same distance with Mobil, pennzoil, castrol, redline, etc. because the service intervals. This is why I’m professionally brand agnostic.

This is how I would rate your post:
1670354503062.png


It should probably be made into a sticky somewhere around here 😁

Thank you for the detailed explanation, I appreciate it.
 
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