New Red Line Oil High Performance 0W-20 and 0W-30 API SP elemental analysis

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Very interesting, thank you.

Red Line has always been unique in their approach, now I wonder if they're more like the rest of them.
As you know 10W30 has a Noack of 6 using PAO & ester - lots of ZDDP, Calcium, excellent film strength …
It’s just old school synthetic for certain applications …
 

Foxtrot08

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Very interesting, thank you.

Red Line has always been unique in their approach, now I wonder if they're more like the rest of them.

I would say Redline will continue to be 'semi' independent.

The one thing you can count on with major oil companies: Sudden shifts in policy don't happen often. So I see Redline kind of cruising along for a while. The people that I know, who are key people at redline, are very passionate about Redline products. They're all long time oil industry people, that have spent a long time at P66. They have their head on their shoulders right. I went through P66 Lube school with a few of them. Another one was my P66 territory rep for a while.

I said it in another thread: Actually being in the industry - it's a small world.
 

Rod Knock

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I would say Redline will continue to be 'semi' independent.

The one thing you can count on with major oil companies: Sudden shifts in policy don't happen often. So I see Redline kind of cruising along for a while. The people that I know, who are key people at redline, are very passionate about Redline products. They're all long time oil industry people, that have spent a long time at P66. They have their head on their shoulders right. I went through P66 Lube school with a few of them. Another one was my P66 territory rep for a while.

I said it in another thread: Actually being in the industry - it's a small world.
I hope they will be around for a long time and keep making a good product. I hope they're not going to be exploited by their corporate parent just for their brand equity. 🤞
 

Foxtrot08

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I hope they will be around for a long time and keep making a good product. I hope they're not going to be exploited by their corporate parent just for their brand equity. 🤞


I don't think that will happen...

I was going to write more on that, but, every major has their issues. It's what you deal with being a distributor.
 

Foxtrot08

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It's $65/gallon - 'nuf said. :rolleyes:


They're not even trying to hide the fact that their Professional line is Kendall with a Red Line label.


I was trying to be a little ambiguous with my statement... But yes, you're correct.

Redline is also making some specialty OEM products for P66, niche applications.
 

Rod Knock

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Without making any further assumptions, I decided to ask if the typical properties for their 0W-30 matches those listed in the 2021 Product Catalog. The answer is yes.

1670259917693.jpg


Link to the 2021 Product Catalog: https://www.redlineoil.com/Content/files/RLO_CATALOG_2021.pdf

1670259977187.jpg


I think it's safe to say that the rest of the properties for the other viscosities are valid as well.

At this point I don't think we should fear anything or make any negative assumptions. It looks to me as Red Line Oil is overhauling and modernizing their formulations to bring them in line with today's specifications and demands. Many small displacement T-GDI engines specify 0W-20, and some performance models specify 0W-30. You'll notice that viscosities such as 5W-30, 0W-40, etc. are still API SN. I assume they're updating them as well, but not to the extent of API SP compatible engine oils.

Time and UOAs will tell, to some extent, how these new formulations hold up.
 
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The reduced ZDDP is deeply concerning. There's a lot of people who use Red Line HP 5W-30 and 5W-40 in rather radical hydraulic and solid flat tappet race engines. The moly could help pick up the slack, but they reduced that too. I'm going to message them to switch to the racing line for the time being.

I couldn't care less about the SP DI pack. Leave that for the licensed oil.
 

Rod Knock

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The reduced ZDDP is deeply concerning. There's a lot of people who use Red Line HP 5W-30 and 5W-40 in rather radical hydraulic and solid flat tappet race engines. The moly could help pick up the slack, but they reduced that too. I'm going to message them to switch to the racing line for the time being.

I couldn't care less about the SP DI pack. Leave that for the licensed oil.
1670266172103.jpg
 
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The reduced ZDDP is deeply concerning. There's a lot of people who use Red Line HP 5W-30 and 5W-40 in rather radical hydraulic and solid flat tappet race engines. The moly could help pick up the slack, but they reduced that too. I'm going to message them to switch to the racing line for the time being.

I couldn't care less about the SP DI pack. Leave that for the licensed oil.
RL could potentially gain more market share by broadening their market utilizing a robust SP rated oil for modern engines that don't require the level of ZDP of older engines. That's my guess. I'm not sure it is good or bad personally.

They still have their racing oils.

RL's formulations were based on 20 year old technology.
 
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Rod Knock

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RL's formulations were based on 20 year old technology.
The use of higher quality base oils kept them chugging along for so long while using an older formulation. Though I believe they had a few formulation changes over the years that they didn't advertise. They're a mystery, in so many ways.
 
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The use of higher quality base oils kept them chugging along for so long while using an older formulation. Though I believe they had a few formulation changes over the years that they didn't advertise. They're a mystery, in so many ways.
Right. I wasn't saying that was necessarily a bad thing. Some would much prefer that approach to this day.
 

Rod Knock

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Right. I wasn't saying that was necessarily a bad thing. Some would much prefer that approach to this day.
The good thing is that there is something for everybody. Those who already buy Red Line, will stick to it. Others will buy something else. And then there is HPL, and they have a wide selection of motor oils.
 
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Most of the long drain oils on the market now use SP'ish additive systems and crush all the industry standard tests by a lot. So, I don't think you're losing much with these types of formulations.
 

Rod Knock

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Most of the long drain oils on the market now use SP'ish additive systems and crush all the industry standard tests by a lot. So, I don't think you're losing much with these types of formulations.
This transition was in the making for a long time. Red Line knows what it's doing. The problem with Red Line is transparency.
 
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RL could potentially gain more market share by broadening their market utilizing a robust SP rated oil for modern engines that don't require the level of ZDP of older engines. That's my guess. I'm not sure it is good or bad personally.

They still have their racing oils.

RL's formulations were based on 20 year old technology.

They have the OEM line for that. A lot of race engines rely on the high ZDDP and Mo in the HP line of oils. I really hope we don't start seeing widespread cam failures from this. The first one on my mind is a solid flat tappet cam that's 256 / 264 @ .050", .622" / .621" lift, and >500 lbs spring pressure over the nose with 1.7 rockers. With just 877 ppm phosphorus in the new formula, I don't see that cam surviving that very long. He already ordered the oil last week, supposed to be delivered tomorrow. He's pretty ticked off right now, as am I. A warning from Red Line that the ZDDP is being reduced would've been really appreciated.
 

Rod Knock

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They have the OEM line for that. A lot of race engines rely on the high ZDDP and Mo in the HP line of oils. I really hope we don't start seeing widespread cam failures from this. The first one on my mind is a solid flat tappet cam that's 256 / 264 @ .050", .622" / .621" lift, and >500 lbs spring pressure over the nose with 1.7 rockers. With just 877 ppm phosphorus in the new formula, I don't see that cam surviving that very long. He already ordered the oil last week, supposed to be delivered tomorrow. He's pretty ticked off right now, as am I. A warning from Red Line that the ZDDP is being reduced would've been really appreciated.
Not all oils in the HP line have reduced ZDDP. The messed up part is that Red Line didn't update their website with the new info. I asked about that and Red Line said that they will once they have enough market penetration with their new formulations. Yes, it sounds ridiculous.

I suggest you contact Mr. David Granquest at Red Line Oil. I will PM you his email address. You should voice your concerns and ask for specifics, including which oils in the HP lineup have reduced ZDDP, reduced Moly, or both.
 
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So this begs the following question: should I keep using their products since I don't know exactly what I'm buying?
Since Redline is dropping the ball and the “informed” consumer that used to purchase their products no longer has any clue what exactly is in the bottle, they are inadvertently driving plenty of business onto HPL’s doorstep, and rightly so.

Today’s Redline does not seem to realize they no longer occupy a unicorn position in the market, and will eventually be left behind as a product of their own making.
 
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