New Red Line Oil High Performance 0W-20 and 0W-30 API SP elemental analysis

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About eight~nine months I contacted Red Line Oil and inquired about the formulations that they presented in their 2021 product catalog found here: https://www.redlineoil.com/Content/files/RLO_CATALOG_2021.pdf

I was told that the new formulations are delayed due to some internal issues.

Today amongst other things I inquired again and was told that their Red Line 0W-20 and 0W-30 API SP variants started production five months and three months ago. They will update the website once the new product reaches more consumer and has more market penetration.

I also asked an elemental analysis and received the one bellow for both viscosities. I converted it to ppm (I hope I got this right). I also included a screenshot with my personal info removed.

I believe that Red Line is moving in the right direction by updating their High Performance lineup. It is quite different from what we've become accustomed to from them. Red Line's concern with this reformulation was small displacement T-GDI engines and wanted to address LSPI and other issues.

  • Calcium = 1084 ppm
  • Magnesium = 740 ppm
  • Boron = 170 ppm
  • Zinc = 957 ppm
  • Phosphorus = 877 ppm
  • Molybdenum = 243 ppm
  • TBN = 8.35
  • Sulfated Ash = 0.8%
  • ------------------------------
  • Nitrogen = 0.144
  • Sulfur = 0.2495

1669774687123.png
 
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Wrong direction.

They have their professional series oils for those that want less zddp.

The high performance oils shouldn't cater to greenie hogwash or 'licensing'. It had plenty of LSPI protection from excessive moly and z/p. I still see LSPI as an automaker tuning issue compounded by foolish owners. But, I am glad if they updated to latest tech additive packages, but want more. I guess this will drive up some HPL sales :cool:

https://www.redlineoil.com/motor-oil The website datasheets still need some work.
 
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I was told that the new formulations are delayed due to some internal issues.

Today amongst other things I inquired again and was told that their Red Line 0W-20 and 0W-30 API SP variants started production five months and three months ago. They will update the website once the new product reaches more consumer and has more market penetration.
Thanks for sharing. So they're waiting for more market penetration once the product starts selling more? I assume the other grades will also take on this formulation.
 

Rod Knock

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0w16 with a 2.7 on hths and their 5w20 at 3.1? Better than most otc 5w20 hths! Seems the pour point isn't as low but the back got lower burn off
I'd take those numbers not only with a grain of salt, but rather with an entire salt shaker. Those charts are from their 2021 Product Catalog that they wrote in 2020. It's got some mistakes in it. They never corrected it. Back when they made that catalog it was mostly wishful thinking based on what new motor oil formulations they wanted to bring to the market. I'm going to reserve judgement until I see some updated PDS documents.

As for the pour point, that hasn't been accurate for Red Line for a very long time. I'm not saying that Red Line Oil doesn't make good products, but rather that they should keep their published specifications up to date so that customers know what they're buying.
 

Rod Knock

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While their sloppiness doesn't necessarily reflect a bad product, they should do a better job with these things.
Not only do I agree, but I very bluntly told Red Line the same: it's time to update your web site because that's the only thing we, as consumers, have to go off, as far as accurate information is concerned. Otherwise they invite speculation and doubt and customers may lose confidence in their products.
 
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It's quite surprising being they've been doing this for quite some time now. I wonder what is going on between RL and P66. It's my understanding that RL operates as its own entity, and they're not controlled in any way by P66.

I wonder if @Foxtrot08 knows how this relatonship works. Does RL use P66's internal testing etc. to validate performance claims and to test their formulations?
 
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Last month I changed the oil in my Hemi-powered Ram and sent a sample to Blackstone. The oil taken out was Red Line 0W-20 that I had purchased in August 2021. I posted the UOA here, and some commented that it looks like a new formula. I replaced the oil with the same Red Line 0W-20, purchased in September 2022. Is my new oil likely a different formulation than the one from last year, or are they both the new formulation?
 
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Rod Knock

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Is my new oil likely a different formulation than the one from last year, or are they both the new formulation?
If you can post a picture with the code printed on the oil container (if you still have it) I may be able to tell you around when it was bottled.
 
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Last month I changed the oil in my Hemi-powered Ram and sent a sample to Blackstone. The oil taken out was Red Line 0W-20 that I had purchased in August 2021. I posted the IOA here, and some commented that it looks like a new formula. I replaced the oil with the same Red Line 0W-20, purchased in September 2022. Is my new oil likely a different formulation than the one from last year, or are they both the new formulation?
Looks like it!!!

I wonder if they need to wait for all the 'older' other grades to sell out before announcing new/improved formulas or a label or marketing change. Like any product, there will be new/old inventory in stores on shelves or in warehouse online stores. This could also be a 'rolling' update targeting certain grades 1st.
 

Rod Knock

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Looks like it!!!

I wonder if they need to wait for all the 'older' other grades to sell out before announcing new/improved formulas or a label or marketing change. Like any product, there will be new/old inventory in stores on shelves or in warehouse online stores. This could also be a 'rolling' update targeting certain grades 1st.
At $65/gallon their oil sells at the velocity of a snail on speed.

Last month I changed the oil in my Hemi-powered Ram and sent a sample to Blackstone. The oil taken out was Red Line 0W-20 that I had purchased in August 2021. I posted the UOA here, and some commented that it looks like a new formula. I replaced the oil with the same Red Line 0W-20, purchased in September 2022. Is my new oil likely a different formulation than the one from last year, or are they both the new formulation?
What I saw in your UOA was an "intermediate" formulation, probably SN+ type of deal. I'm running the same stuff in my 2022 Durango. In our 2017 Santa Fe 3.3L V6, an engine that never consumed a drop of oil, it burned nearly a quart of Red Line 5W-30 in ~6800 miles. This tells me that their blends aren't that consistent.

Knowing what I know about how oils are blended, and the inconsistencies I saw amongst various RL UOAs and VOAs, I wonder how much Red Line allows themselves to deviate from the formulation during blending, how many corrections per batch they do, and how many they miss. I also wonder when is it they draw the line and just ship it as it's blended.

It seems to me like they're not holding themselves accountable for the fly-by changes they make, neither can anyone else hold them to any standard.

So this begs the following question: should I keep using their products since I don't know exactly what I'm buying?
 

Foxtrot08

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It's quite surprising being they've been doing this for quite some time now. I wonder what is going on between RL and P66. It's my understanding that RL operates as its own entity, and they're not controlled in any way by P66.

I wonder if @Foxtrot08 knows how this relatonship works. Does RL use P66's internal testing etc. to validate performance claims and to test their formulations?


Redline certainly has access to Bartlesville R&D. I would venture to say they utilize it as well.

The “not controlled in anyway by p66” is probably a bit of a stretch. I can’t go too deeply involved in it. But a number of my friends at P66 are at Redline now. And the chain of command for Redline is the same as P66/Kendall.

Where it is divided:

Redline still does their the majority of their own blending and bottling. It is however available out of P66 CWD instead of just via redline direct. Which means P66 jobbers have access to it.

Redline does its own marketing still, independently. Where as P66 & Kendall are under the same marketing management.

The SP line of products, that is fully licensed, are… “closely” related to p66 products. That’s the best way I can phrase it.

Redline is not subjected to the same additive and base oil supply contracts that P66 is and thus pricing isn’t moved at the same time as P66/Kendall pricing.
 
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Redline certainly has access to Bartlesville R&D. I would venture to say they utilize it as well.

The “not controlled in anyway by p66” is probably a bit of a stretch. I can’t go too deeply involved in it. But a number of my friends at P66 are at Redline now. And the chain of command for Redline is the same as P66/Kendall.

Where it is divided:

Redline still does their the majority of their own blending and bottling. It is however available out of P66 CWD instead of just via redline direct. Which means P66 jobbers have access to it.

Redline does its own marketing still, independently. Where as P66 & Kendall are under the same marketing management.

The SP line of products, that is fully licensed, are… “closely” related to p66 products. That’s the best way I can phrase it.

Redline is not subjected to the same additive and base oil supply contracts that P66 is and thus pricing isn’t moved at the same time as P66/Kendall pricing.
@Foxtrot08 That’s good stuff. I wonder what you think of High Performance Lubricants?
 
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About eight~nine months I contacted Red Line Oil and inquired about the formulations that they presented in their 2021 product catalog found here: https://www.redlineoil.com/Content/files/RLO_CATALOG_2021.pdf

I was told that the new formulations are delayed due to some internal issues.

Today amongst other things I inquired again and was told that their Red Line 0W-20 and 0W-30 API SP variants started production five months and three months ago. They will update the website once the new product reaches more consumer and has more market penetration.

I also asked an elemental analysis and received the one bellow for both viscosities. I converted it to ppm (I hope I got this right). I also included a screenshot with my personal info removed.

I believe that Red Line is moving in the right direction by updating their High Performance lineup. It is quite different from what we've become accustomed to from them. Red Line's concern with this reformulation was small displacement T-GDI engines and wanted to address LSPI and other issues.

  • Calcium = 1084 ppm
  • Magnesium = 740 ppm
  • Boron = 170 ppm
  • Zinc = 957 ppm
  • Phosphorus = 877 ppm
  • Molybdenum = 243 ppm
  • TBN = 8.35
  • Sulfated Ash = 0.8%
  • ------------------------------
  • Nitrogen = 0.144
  • Sulfur = 0.2495

View attachment 128575
This is interesting, given that Red Line High-Performance is a boutique oil. It is almost at the ILSAC level apart from a slightly elevated phosphorus (ILSAC maximum: 800 ppm).

It is also mid-SAPS (0.6% < SA ≤ 0.8%).

This goes along what I have been saying about all API-SP oils having reduced calcium and added magnesium, despite some trying to contest this simple fact. I doubt we will see any high-calcium, no-magnesium oils in a few years from now, other than some outdated/obsolete oils, when all new oils are updated to a modern API-SP additive package. Sulfated ash (SA) is going down, too, with most oils being/becoming mid-SAPS.

 
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Rod Knock

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This is interesting, given that Red Line High-Performance is a boutique oil. It is almost at the ILSAC level apart from a slightly elevated phosphorus (ILSAC maximum: 800 ppm).

It is also mid-SAPS (0.6% < SA ≤ 0.8%).

This goes along what I have been saying about all API-SP oils having reduced calcium and added magnesium, despite some trying to contest this simple fact. I doubt we will see any high-calcium, no-magnesium oils in a few years from now, other than some outdated/obsolete oils, when all new oils are updated to a modern API-SP additive package. Sulfated ash (SA) is going down, too, with most oils being/becoming mid-SAPS.
It's $65/gallon - 'nuf said. :rolleyes:

The SP line of products, that is fully licensed, are… “closely” related to p66 products. That’s the best way I can phrase it.
They're not even trying to hide the fact that their Professional line is Kendall with a Red Line label.
 
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Redline certainly has access to Bartlesville R&D. I would venture to say they utilize it as well.

The “not controlled in anyway by p66” is probably a bit of a stretch. I can’t go too deeply involved in it. But a number of my friends at P66 are at Redline now. And the chain of command for Redline is the same as P66/Kendall.

Where it is divided:

Redline still does their the majority of their own blending and bottling. It is however available out of P66 CWD instead of just via redline direct. Which means P66 jobbers have access to it.

Redline does its own marketing still, independently. Where as P66 & Kendall are under the same marketing management.

The SP line of products, that is fully licensed, are… “closely” related to p66 products. That’s the best way I can phrase it.

Redline is not subjected to the same additive and base oil supply contracts that P66 is and thus pricing isn’t moved at the same time as P66/Kendall pricing.
Very interesting, thank you.

Red Line has always been unique in their approach, now I wonder if they're more like the rest of them.
 

Foxtrot08

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@Foxtrot08 That’s good stuff. I wonder what you think of High Performance Lubricants?


I have had 0 direct interactions with them. I don't personally know them. Plenty of UoA's show they make a decent, high end PCEO product. That's all I can say.

The internet is a cruel place. If they can exist on it without getting knocked too hard, then they must be doing something right.

Edit:
Unless a company markets sub-par half treat crap oil, chances are I'm fine with them. I market the brands I market, but overall, I'm fairly brand agnostic on the professional level. Purse swinging and bashing major brands doesn't win you any awards. That being said, I have no problems painting bullseyes on companies that market half treat, subpar trash oil. (303 fluid, bathtube blended used oil marketed as '5w30' or '10w30' - that doesn't meet any specs. Etc.)
 
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