New Ravenol Ultra Fuel Economy 0W-8

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nor the opposite (y)

No, but we do have data to show that the thinning of oil viscosities does increase wear so the logic, common sense, and the ability of inference, we can make a good guesstimate/assumption that wear will increase especially in regards to a 0W-20, since that's what you brought up. So...............yeah.

Tl;dr cliffs - you're wrong. (y):sneaky:
 
No, but we do have data to show that the thinning of oil viscosities does increase wear so the logic, common sense, and the ability of inference, we can make a good guesstimate/assumption that wear will increase especially in regards to a 0W-20, since that's what you brought up. So...............yeah.

Tl;dr cliffs - you're wrong. (y):sneaky:

I didn't realize it was a competition. You're welcome to believe it is though. My only point in this thread was that a 1.5% gain on oil alone is pretty substantial.

Last time we got into it, I got a vacation, for what I still don't really know. So I'm going to bow out on this one from this point forward.
 
Yeah right and how many people would lose their minds if all 1.5% cash back rewards credit cards stopped offering the reward.

My wife is a CPA and the controller of a medium sized business. I can assure you that rounding errors are a lot smaller than 1.5%.
It's being used as a figure of speech here. The concept of 1.5% of anything is meaningless without knowing how large this value is in reality. I'll say 1.5% of $10 or 1.5% of $4800 or 1.5% of $1,000,000 all have VERY DIFFERENT meanings. In my mind, 1.5% of $4800? Who gives a crap and that is a rounding error. However, 1.5% of $1,000,000 is $15K and that's real money.
 
I didn't realize it was a competition. You're welcome to believe it is though. My only point in this thread was that a 1.5% gain on oil alone is pretty substantial.

Last time we got into it, I got a vacation, for what I still don't really know. So I'm going to bow out on this one from this point forward.

Well, in a discussion, there's two sides....a right side and a wrong side. So in that sense, I guess, it's a competition. There's a winner and a loser. Thinking that going to a thinner viscosity oil might not cause problems is a losing idea.
 
Perhaps it’s significant across large fleets, or the entire motor vehicle operation of a nation, but for the individual user?

That’s exactly the point.

A. Even a small difference at the individual level, is still a difference.

B. We’re so focused on the MY BENEFIT that we instantly dismiss anything that we consider of negligible difference. But when you expand that thought to the macro level and look at OUR BENEFIT we can start to appreciate these incremental changes.
 
It's being used as a figure of speech here. The concept of 1.5% of anything is meaningless without knowing how large this value is in reality. I'll say 1.5% of $10 or 1.5% of $4800 or 1.5% of $1,000,000 all have VERY DIFFERENT meanings. In my mind, 1.5% of $4800? Who gives a crap and that is a rounding error. However, 1.5% of $1,000,000 is $15K and that's real money.
1.5% of something is 1.5% ... regardless of what the something is. The real question is, how accurate is that 1.5% delta measurement.
 
That’s exactly the point.

A. Even a small difference at the individual level, is still a difference.

B. We’re so focused on the MY BENEFIT that we instantly dismiss anything that we consider of negligible difference. But when you expand that thought to the macro level and look at OUR BENEFIT we can start to appreciate these incremental changes.
I agree - but the small changes that can have macro benefit are ignored - tire pressure checks for everyone would save far more than this viscosity change. Cheaper. More effective.

Lowering speed limits (unpopular) actually works to save fuel - or perhaps, enforcement of existing limits? Fuel consumption improvements by slowing traffic from 85 to 65 would be an order of magnitude larger than this fuel economy savings.

Timing traffic lights, better routing, HOV lanes, etc. to manage traffic would be much bigger than this.

I just don't see the benefit of a 1.1% fuel economy gain, even system wide, when much larger gains are achievable. Can we focus on the big gains before noodling down to the tiny gains?
 
Just like an ad telling they are give you a 10% off coupon but they never tell you what the regular everyday price is. You really get 0% most of the time!
All the ads I've ever seen show what the "regular" price is/was when they show a xx% discount.
 
I agree - but the small changes that can have macro benefit are ignored - tire pressure checks for everyone would save far more than this viscosity change. Cheaper. More effective.
Supposedly, the 1.15% increase in mileage is with all other factors held constant except the oil viscosity. At least that's how it should be presented if that's the case. No question that fuel mileage is dependent on many factors.
 
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I agree - but the small changes that can have macro benefit are ignored - tire pressure checks for everyone would save far more than this viscosity change. Cheaper. More effective.

Lowering speed limits (unpopular) actually works to save fuel - or perhaps, enforcement of existing limits? Fuel consumption improvements by slowing traffic from 85 to 65 would be an order of magnitude larger than this fuel economy savings.

Timing traffic lights, better routing, HOV lanes, etc. to manage traffic would be much bigger than this.

I just don't see the benefit of a 1.1% fuel economy gain, even system wide, when much larger gains are achievable. Can we focus on the big gains before noodling down to the tiny gains?
Don’t disagree with any of your points! However, as much as I’d love to focus and crack open those big nuts, it’s in my opinion a misstep to ignore the small nuts in the pursuit of large change.

🍻
 
Don’t disagree with any of your points! However, as much as I’d love to focus and crack open those big nuts, it’s in my opinion a misstep to ignore the small nuts in the pursuit of large change.
if someone gave you 5 lbs of cashews you’re going to eat the biggest, most complete ones first, then go after the small nuts. Should be the same when it comes to maintenance and/or improvements! ✌️
 
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if someone gave you 5 lbs of cashews you’re going to eat the biggest, most complete ones first, then go after the small nuts. Should be the same when it comes to maintenance and/or improvements! ✌️
I use to eat lunch with this coworker that bought a small bag of Doritos in the cafeteria every day. He would put down a napkin and dump the whole bag out and separate all the perfect unbroken chips from the broken up ones. Then he would eat all the broken pieces and then eat all the perfect whole chips. Guess he liked the idea of eating the perfect ones last. 😄
 
I use to eat lunch with this coworker that bought a small bag of Doritos in the cafeteria every day. He would put down a napkin and dump the whole bag out and separate all the perfect unbroken chips from the broken up ones. Then he would eat all the broken pieces and then eat all the perfect whole chips. Guess he liked the idea of eating the perfect ones last. 😄
So you’re saying Doritos are the anti-cashew? 😂
 
Can you provide a link that shows the differences in the crank journal design/size compared to a similar engine used on the streets? Just how much smaller are they?

Keep in mind that MOFT is also a function of bearing RPM. If those engines lived a lifetime of running a very low RPM it might be a different story.

They are 1.77" rods (Honda sized journals) and 2" mains which is the minimum size allowed by NASCAR.
 
1.5% of something is 1.5% ... regardless of what the something is. The real question is, how accurate is that 1.5% delta measurement.
To quote my current statistics professor, "Stats is not a science so much as an art based on science. I can teach anyone to compute numbers because that's easy. The hard part is really understanding the problem in front of you, choosing the correct path to analyze those numbers, completing your computations, and then interpreting what those numbers really mean in the real world."

While your statement is technically correct the real-world meanings of 1.5% of $1 and 1.5% of $1,000,000,000 are totally different.
 
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