Shell GTL oil (Helix Ultra) with bad specs compared to PAO oil

[Hypermannen]

Hello oil people. New forum guy here and i have a quite difficult (for me) question that i cant answer after hours and hours digging on the internet.

So we know that PAO is the to-go oil for especially tuned cars, oil that can handle heat better oxidation etc

We also know that Gas-to-Liquid is not as good as PAO but not as bad as Hydrocracked oil

Datasheet for Shell Helix Ultra 5w-40 A3/B4: https://www.shell-livedocs.com/data/published/en/c6a904b9-7610-4a72-9cc1-984f0e3cc6ac.pdf
Datasheet for Ravenol Vollsynth Turbo VST 5w-40: https://www.ravenol.de/en/product/motorenoel/pkw-motorenoel/ravenol-vollsynth-turbo-vst-sae-5w-40

pourpoint on the Shell oil is -36c, and on the Ravenol its down to -57c

What am i missing? Something that standsoff or is it just that my knowledge is rusty and this is just the way the oils is?
I was 99% sure the GTL would have much better pourpoint but boy i was wrong
Cheers

 

[ceecbtg]

Hi, welcome
First you should know datasheet is not fully true, it's generic or min spec sometimes, SHU 5w40 pour point is around -52ºC SN and -57ºC SP.

 

[Hypermannen]

Hi, welcome
First you should know datasheet is not fully true, it's generic or min spec sometimes, SHU 5w40 pour point is around -52ºC SN and -57ºC SP.

Hello. I found it weird they spec is "bad" so to speak? if so Ravenol oil cant be that good as they say? Where do you find the SN and SP numbers?

 

[Rand]

What am i missing? Something that standsoff or is it just that my knowledge is rusty and this is just the way the oils is?

Most oils with PAO have a lower pour point.
but pour point itself is not a spec to concern yourself with
you want the CCS or MRV numbers at low temp.

 

[Plumb Bob]

So we know that PAO is the to-go oil for especially tuned cars

Explain, please.

 

[edyvw]

Hello oil people. New forum guy here and i have a quite difficult (for me) question that i cant answer after hours and hours digging on the internet.

So we know that PAO is the to-go oil for especially tuned cars, oil that can handle heat better oxidation etc

We also know that Gas-to-Liquid is not as good as PAO but not as bad as Hydrocracked oil

Datasheet for Shell Helix Ultra 5w-40 A3/B4: https://www.shell-livedocs.com/data/published/en/c6a904b9-7610-4a72-9cc1-984f0e3cc6ac.pdf
Datasheet for Ravenol Vollsynth Turbo VST 5w-40: https://www.ravenol.de/en/product/motorenoel/pkw-motorenoel/ravenol-vollsynth-turbo-vst-sae-5w-40

pourpoint on the Shell oil is -36c, and on the Ravenol its down to -57c

What am i missing? Something that standsoff or is it just that my knowledge is rusty and this is just the way the oils is?
I was 99% sure the GTL would have much better pourpoint but boy i was wrong
Cheers

Actually, we don’t know.
So, please explain.

 

[lakestone]

Hello oil people. New forum guy here and i have a quite difficult (for me) question that i cant answer after hours and hours digging on the internet.

So we know that PAO is the to-go oil for especially tuned cars, oil that can handle heat better oxidation etc

We also know that Gas-to-Liquid is not as good as PAO but not as bad as Hydrocracked oil

Datasheet for Shell Helix Ultra 5w-40 A3/B4: https://www.shell-livedocs.com/data/published/en/c6a904b9-7610-4a72-9cc1-984f0e3cc6ac.pdf
Datasheet for Ravenol Vollsynth Turbo VST 5w-40: https://www.ravenol.de/en/product/motorenoel/pkw-motorenoel/ravenol-vollsynth-turbo-vst-sae-5w-40

pourpoint on the Shell oil is -36c, and on the Ravenol its down to -57c

What am i missing? Something that standsoff or is it just that my knowledge is rusty and this is just the way the oils is?
I was 99% sure the GTL would have much better pourpoint but boy i was wrong
Cheers

First of all, I’m not "oil people." I identify as a neurotic nerd somewhere on the spectrum.

Second, you make a lot of flawed assumptions based on superficial information that you’ve cobbled together and oversimplified.

You can only judge a lubricant by its approvals, certifications, and licenses when used in the application for which it was designed.
As to your pour point comparison, not that it matters match in your comparison, but Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 API SP flows at -57 Celsius: https://www.oil-club.ru/forum/topic/46866-shell-helix-ultra-5w-40-api-sp-svezhee/

Shell chooses to be more conservative with their spec sheets. If you're ambitios and want to crank an engince at over -50C, you might have some other issues to deal with besides cold flow. What really matters is the oil's winter rating written on the container, not the lab result that might be different from batch to batch.

 

[Hypermannen]

Most oils with PAO have a lower pour point.
but pour point itself is not a spec to concern yourself with
you want the CCS or MRV numbers at low temp.

Explain, please.

Actually, we don’t know.
So, please explain.

First of all, I’m not "oil people." I identify as a neurotic nerd somewhere on the spectrum.

Second, you make a lot of flawed assumptions based on superficial information that you’ve cobbled together and oversimplified.

You can only judge a lubricant by its approvals, certifications, and licenses when used in the application for which it was designed.
As to your pour point comparison, not that it matters match in your comparison, but Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 API SP flows at -57 Celsius: https://www.oil-club.ru/forum/topic/46866-shell-helix-ultra-5w-40-api-sp-svezhee/

Shell chooses to be more conservative with their spec sheets. If you're ambitios and want to crank an engince at over -50C, you might have some other issues to deal with besides cold flow. What really matters is the oil's winter rating written on the container, not the lab result that might be different from batch to batch.

Thanks for answer.

Atleast what ive learned from different sites and forums the PAO oils are naturally wide in their viscosity, which reduces/eliminates the need to add viscosity-enhancing additives, which break down over time and cause viscosity changes in the oil and at the same time cause contamination in the oil.
a PAO oil will also be more stable against "oil consumption" because there are no short/light hydrocarbon chains that evaporate easily

So from my perspective PAO is considered a "better" oil than a regular oil, but if my knowledge lacks, i take it back.

 

[ceecbtg]

Hello. I found it weird they spec is "bad" so to speak? if so Ravenol oil cant be that good as they say? Where do you find the SN and SP numbers?

Ravenol should be real data. You find more info from independent laboratory test aka VOA.

 

[edyvw]

Thanks for answer.

Atleast what ive learned from different sites and forums the PAO oils are naturally wide in their viscosity, which reduces/eliminates the need to add viscosity-enhancing additives, which break down over time and cause viscosity changes in the oil and at the same time cause contamination in the oil.
a PAO oil will also be more stable against "oil consumption" because there are no short/light hydrocarbon chains that evaporate easily

So from my perspective PAO is considered a "better" oil than a regular oil, but if my knowledge lacks, i take it back.

The final product is what matters. PAO oils or Ester etc. are always mixed with other base stocks.
The SDS you posted is from 2018. Shell at that time had an issue with GTL supply and briefly changed formulation. In Europe also you have two Helix flavors, one Group III based and another one GTL based.
Check dates on SDS!

As for tuned cars, a lot of people ise Motul X-Cess on track (I did too) and it is group III. Excellent UOA after extensive track time including sessions as long as 1 1/2 hrs without pit stop.

 

[Rand]

Thanks for answer.

Atleast what ive learned from different sites and forums the PAO oils are naturally wide in their viscosity, which reduces/eliminates the need to add viscosity-enhancing additives, which break down over time and cause viscosity changes in the oil and at the same time cause contamination in the oil.
a PAO oil will also be more stable against "oil consumption" because there are no short/light hydrocarbon chains that evaporate easily

So from my perspective PAO is considered a "better" oil than a regular oil, but if my knowledge lacks, i take it back.

you might want to say " High VI oil" vs "wide in viscosity".. A high VI oil changes the LEAST not the most.
but I think I understood what you were trying to say.

High VI oils have the lowest change in viscosity with regards to temperatures.

 

[Averroes]

If it has, A40 and or 229.5 ratings, that’s all you need. Yes PAO and esters are good, but they come at a price.

If you never want to ask an oil question here for the next 2- 3 years, use HPL or Redline oils with a Carquest premium filter and swap them all at 5k miles or one year, whatever comes first. Done.

 

[HouseTiger]

Curious why Shell Helix isn't marketed in the U.S., or if it is, that it's so rarely found (at least around my part of the country)

 

[nascarnation]

Curious why Shell Helix isn't marketed in the U.S., or if it is, that it's so rarely found (at least around my part of the country)

I think they emphasize Pennzoil and QS for gas engines in N. America and Shell the rest of the world. Although there's a lot of overlap.

 

[kschachn]

Explain, please.

Yes, I don’t understand that either. PAO isn’t any better at preventing wear nor resisting fuel dilution.

 

[kschachn]

Curious why Shell Helix isn't marketed in the U.S., or if it is, that it's so rarely found (at least around my part of the country)

Isn’t it the same as another NA brand?

 

[Plumb Bob]

Yes, I don’t understand that either. PAO isn’t any better at preventing wear nor resisting fuel dilution.

And, honestly, after 20+ years (of BITOG) on the net, any layman user, such as me, should know the end-product is what really matters. Not the sauce used in the recipe.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

And, honestly, after 20+ years (of BITOG) on the net, any layman user, such as me, should know the end-product is what really matters. Not the sauce used in the recipe.

I regress!
One better know the sauce in the recipe, when taking Grammy's vehicle for an hour-long spin on the racetrack.

Signed
Ted Theta II