New mobil 1 0w40 viscosity

edyvw said:
I am aware, and it will be fine, especially for bang for a buck, but then, Castrol Edge 0W30 and HTHS 3.58.
I mean we had oils with KV100 of 14.2 and HTHS 3.7, yet we all preferred Mobil 1 0W40.
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Ravenol VMP is the champ for KV100 to HTHS ratio I think. The Castrol is good but you’ve got the old school add pack with no moly to weigh against a new Infineum SP pack.

The question is really does it mean anything. This is all really asking if Gokhan’s HTFS is a figure of merit. The low HTHS for the high KV100 implies a high level of temporary shear in high shear situations. I’m just not sure how much it matters if Porsche is ok using ESP X3 with VI 204 and 3.8 HTHS @ 14.1 cSt in cup cars.
 
chris719 said:
Ravenol VMP is the champ for KV100 to HTHS ratio I think. The Castrol is good but you’ve got the old school add pack with no moly to weigh against a new Infineum SP pack.

The question is really does it mean anything. This is all really asking if Gokhan’s HTFS is a figure of merit. The low HTHS for the high KV100 implies a high level of temporary shear in high shear situations. I’m just not sure how much it matters if Porsche is ok using ESP X3 with VI 204 and 3.8 HTHS @ 14.1 cSt in cup cars.
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Not sure why moly is big deal? Castrol is old pack but precisely bcs. it is old pack it doesn’t need to offset lack of additives due to LSPI issues.
 
chris719 said:
Ravenol VMP is the champ for KV100 to HTHS ratio I think. The Castrol is good but you’ve got the old school add pack with no moly to weigh against a new Infineum SP pack.

The question is really does it mean anything. This is all really asking if Gokhan’s HTFS is a figure of merit. The low HTHS for the high KV100 implies a high level of temporary shear in high shear situations. I’m just not sure how much it matters if Porsche is ok using ESP X3 with VI 204 and 3.8 HTHS @ 14.1 cSt in cup cars.
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@OVERKILL hit on this in one thread (maybe this one) that Euro testing is far advanced past API testing, and if HTFS were truly relevant or critical, that they would likely be testing it… and they’re not.

Again, certifications trump all other individual testing IMO… the Porsche certs and a few others are extremely rigorous. If an oil meets those certs, any complaints or concerns against the components of an oil are moot. HOW an oil meets the certs is irrelevant… the proof is in the pudding. It meets the cert, or not.
 
SubieRubyRoo said:
@OVERKILL hit on this in one thread (maybe this one) that Euro testing is far advanced past API testing, and if HTFS were truly relevant or critical, that they would likely be testing it… and they’re not.

Again, certifications trump all other individual testing IMO… the Porsche certs and a few others are extremely rigorous. If an oil meets those certs, any complaints or concerns against the components of an oil are moot. HOW an oil meets the certs is irrelevant… the proof is in the pudding. It meets the cert, or not.
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I’m not the one you need to convince :)
 
edyvw said:
Not sure why moly is big deal? Castrol is old pack but precisely bcs. it is old pack it doesn’t need to offset lack of additives due to LSPI issues.
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It’s not about LSPI. It’s about anti friction / anti wear. HPL and everyone other than Castrol is using varying amounts now. Is the Ti as good or does the oil have some other additive to achieve the same? Maybe.
 
chris719 said:
Who knows. I’m sure everyone else isn’t using it for fun though. It’s all speculative, just like HTHS vs KV100 being important.
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Bcs. There is drop in other additives. ILSAC XW30 oils had limits before XW40 oils. Those limits were introduced with API SP. Moly is nothing new, or magnesium. They are not using it for fun, but limits bcs. LSPI in ILSAC oils and later API SP changed additives. In Castrol 0W30 calcium is balanced with other additives. We discussed this a lot before.
 
edyvw said:
Bcs. There is drop in other additives. ILSAC XW30 oils had limits before XW40 oils. Those limits were introduced with API SP. Moly is nothing new, or magnesium. They are not using it for fun, but limits bcs. LSPI in ILSAC oils and later API SP changed additives. In Castrol 0W30 calcium is balanced with other additives. We discussed this a lot before.
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Indeed - discussed so much that I need more Ca - from Tums 😵‍💫
 
edyvw said:
Bcs. There is drop in other additives. ILSAC XW30 oils had limits before XW40 oils. Those limits were introduced with API SP. Moly is nothing new, or magnesium. They are not using it for fun, but limits bcs. LSPI in ILSAC oils and later API SP changed additives. In Castrol 0W30 calcium is balanced with other additives. We discussed this a lot before.
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Many full SAPS XW40 oils have been using it and it has nothing to do with ILSAC limits there.
 
chris719 said:
Many full SAPS XW40 oils have been using it and it has nothing to do with ILSAC limits there.
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You are not fallowing.
Castrol Edge 0W30 is still SL as it doesn’t meet limits on additives imposed by API SM and later API specifications. Edge 5W30 until this year was also SL. Does not mean it is “old” additive package.
Those limits were not imposed on XW40 oils until API SP. It is not like XOM etc. didn’t know about moly etc. until this year.
Castrol went SP on 5W30/40 A3 oils but not 0 30, not bcs. they can’t, but bcs. they don’t want to.
It is questionable whether Edge 0W30 os better bang for a buck than Mobil 1 0W40. But, IMO it was always better oil, regardless that this exercise is trying to find needle in the haystack.
 
edyvw said:
You are not fallowing.
Castrol Edge 0W30 is still SL as it doesn’t meet limits on additives imposed by API SM and later API specifications. Edge 5W30 until this year was also SL. Does not mean it is “old” additive package.
Those limits were not imposed on XW40 oils until API SP. It is not like XOM etc. didn’t know about moly etc. until this year.
Castrol went SP on 5W30/40 A3 oils but not 0 30, not bcs. they can’t, but bcs. they don’t want to.
It is questionable whether Edge 0W30 os better bang for a buck than Mobil 1 0W40. But, IMO it was always better oil, regardless that this exercise is trying to find needle in the haystack.
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No, I am following. I fully understand the API limits on additive companies knows for sure though.
 
edyvw said:
How much less wear?
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And here the white papers I’ve read mainly use moly for friction reduction and “improved mileage”… no mention about less wear. Probably because when the hydrodynamic wedge is maintained, preventing metal to metal contact… it’s hard to reduce a wear level that’s already almost zero. Just a guess…
 
SubieRubyRoo said:
And here the white papers I’ve read mainly use moly for friction reduction and “improved mileage”… no mention about less wear. Probably because when the hydrodynamic wedge is maintained, preventing metal to metal contact… it’s hard to reduce a wear level that’s already almost zero. Just a guess…
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Only the bearings operate in the hydrodynamic regime. It would have benefit in mixed and boundary so piston rings, skirts etc. and valvetrain.

https://www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/2004-01-2005/

In the comparison of wear on cylinder bores lubricated with the same viscosity of lubricant, the lubricant containing the MoDTC friction modifier had the lowest wear depth, probably because of a wear-resistant reaction film formed by the reaction of sulfur from ZnDTP (Zinc Dialkyl Dithiophosphate) and MoDTC. The wear depth of the engine oil without any friction modifier was the highest among all lubricants tested. With MoDTC in the engine oil, the wear depths for all tested piston rings were lower than those operating in the absence of MoDTC.
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