Naturally Aspirated (NA) V8 Engines

[ctechbob]

I've owned both. Here's the rub with turbo's and trucks, weight. You have a Ford F-150 with a six cylinder turbo and want to use it as a daily driver and never really haul anything or tow a boat or trailer, you'll never have any issues. You use that same truck as a work truck filling the bed daily with hundreds of pounds of materials or for towing your a boat or trailer every weekend you will eventually have issues with the six cylinder turbo motor.

With the way engines are built today you'll never see any problems if your changing vehicles every 80K miles or less. The issues start coming about when the miles start adding up over the years. These turbo four and six motors aren't going to last like a NA or even a turbo V8 would in a heavy truck application.

Do you think any of that could be solved by education? What I mean is, turbo motors, even today's with the advanced control systems and better lubes, can probably still benefit from some old-time turbo habits, such as.

- Letting the turbo cool down for a few min after being worked hard
- Changing the oil more often
- Being easy on the motor until things are up to temp
- Using a higher octane gas than recommended*
- Avoid excessive idling
- Make sure to work it hard now and again to keep the variable vanes moving properly

*Ford specs 87 octane for my truck, I don't think I'll ever be comfortable using that, certainly not if I plan on working the truck hard.

I think a lot of problems today are driven by a 'non car' userbase. I've mentioned this before. People today treat cars/trucks like appliances. They want to get in and go, stop to fill up with gas, and take the vehicle for maintenance sometime around when it tells them to. There's no mechanical sympathy or any understanding of how the vehicle works. They expect the vehicle to monitor itself, not let them do anything that would seriously hurt it, and tell them when something is wrong, end result, the vehicle lasts until the extended warranty is up.

I'd bet, you take 2 theoretical identical BITOG'ers give one a NA truck and one a turbo truck and you get the same life out of both, barring any massive engineering problems or faults in the vehicles.

 

[Dinoburner]

So before the advent of the IC engine a farmer might have bought a Clydesdale or a pony and a huge whip.

 

[Skippy722]

So aside from a pleasant exhaust soundtrack, why would anyone choose a V8 over a turbocharged V6 IF you are given the option? Seems like the V8 is just the thirstier and more dated way of delivering power.

Bigger v8 making decent power is less stressed than a smaller engine making the same power. For people who do a ton of hauling/towing the bigger NA engine might last longer. Look at the Crown Vic V8, the Magnum 5.2/5.9L from Chrysler, or Chevy small block. Low power, I know the Magnum 5.9 made at best 250hp out of 360 cubic inches, but they’d go for seemingly forever.

Devils Advocate: No replacement for displacement. And before someone tries to crucify me for saying that and using turbo/supercharged engines as an example... a boosted v8 will make more power than a boosted 4 or 6. We live in a time where there are people making 4 digit power out of junkyard V8’s ridiculously cheap.

 

[ctechbob]

Bigger v8 making decent power is less stressed than a smaller engine making the same power.

Not being argumentative just for the sake of arguing, but while there might be higher stresses in the smaller engine, if it is built to deal with that, then does it matter?

I suspect that the target that (for the sake of argument) Ford sets for their engines almost across the board (Lets leave out the 7.3 Gas and 6.7 Diesel for the moment) is the same for the 5.0 and the Various V6's and I4's. So if they're all engineered to meet that spec, then it shouldn't make any difference. IE an engineering target of XXX,XXX miles.

Also realize that we're talking about factory power levels. If I bought my vehicle with the intent to make big power, I would course buy the big engine. I think we should stick with factory power levels, else we're going to end up in 'ohh yea, when a compound turbo mustang made 2000hp on XYZ' - Land.

 

[Blinker]

OP- why did you even bother buying a V8 if you’re convinced it’s inferior to a turbo V6?

Ford offers multiple V6 turbo engines for the F150, and Chevy offers a turbo 4 cylinder in the Silverado. I would have gone with either of those two options if I thought a NA V8 was inferior.

 

[ctechbob]

OP- why did you even bother buying a V8 if you’re convinced it’s inferior to a turbo V6?

Ford offers multiple V6 turbo engines for the F150, and Chevy offers a turbo 4 cylinder in the Silverado. I would have gone with either of those two options if I thought a NA V8 was inferior.

He's not questioning his choice, he's asking a hypothetical question looking for discussion. There may well have been other things that made him choose the Ram over a Ford.

 

[Blinker]

The engine choice, especially in a truck, is one of the most important decisions to make.

This simply sounds like a bit of buyers remorse. Sorry.

 

[The Critic]

The engine choice, especially in a truck, is one of the most important decisions to make.

This simply sounds like a bit of buyers remorse. Sorry.

I do not have an issue with my choice. Any truck has its compromises. The engine is one of the weaker features of my truck but it’s other strengths make up for it.

Any comparably equipped F-150 with the 2.7 would have been at least 5k more. My question was strictly hypothetical.

 

[2EHA]

I'm with you. And it goes beyond trucks.

A 3.5EB Mustang would rip!

it’s a non-starter for obvious reasons

 

[AZjeff]

I bought a truck with a boosted I4 that is going to end up towing a 26' camper here in a few months.

Curious what the payload and towing numbers are on your Ranger. Lots of 1/2 ton owners end up over payload when they add up true tongue weight, WD hitch weight, occupants and gear in the bed. I haven't been to a CAT scale yet but I'm probably closer that I'd like on the Titan with our 27' trailer.

 

[el Nuke]

I see several references to the infamous lifter/cam problem in Hemi engines still being a thing. I don’t believe that to be the case. From what I’ve gathered, the lifters were redesigned (larger rollers in the roller lifter) in ‘15 or ‘16, and the Hemi engines are not having such a problem with the cam and lifters in subsequent year models.

 

[ctechbob]

Curious what the payload and towing numbers are on your Ranger. Lots of 1/2 ton owners end up over payload when they add up true tongue weight, WD hitch weight, occupants and gear in the bed. I haven't been to a CAT scale yet but I'm probably closer that I'd like on the Titan with our 27' trailer.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/2020-ranger-xl-towing-numbers.336921/

1711 - Payload
750 - Hitch Weight
7500 - Towing
12,500 - GCWR
~4339 - Truck weight

The hitch weight of the camper with propane/batt but empty tanks is around 500#, and an overall weight below 5000. Gives me plenty of wiggle room.

I purposely didn't order a ton of options to weigh the truck down. I didn't need them and they're just dead weight to drag around. It's an XL with STX Appearance Package, FX2 Package, Carpet, E-Locker, and towing package. That's all I needed, and all I bought. (I did add a set of factory running boards to keep the wife happy, I realize that has to come out of the payload)

There's a few guys on the 5th Gen Ranger forum that are WAY out in left field with what they're hauling, but ohh well, to each his own I reckon. I'll stay under the weight limits, but the truck is going to be working.

What's the payload on the Titan? Just curious.

 

[clinebarger]

I see several references to the infamous lifter/cam problem in Hemi engines still being a thing. I don’t believe that to be the case. From what I’ve gathered, the lifters were redesigned (larger rollers in the roller lifter) in ‘15 or ‘16, and the Hemi engines are not having such a problem with the cam and lifters in subsequent year models.

Only time & miles will tell, I believe FCA is still using a Austempered Ductile Iron Camshafts in the 5.7L which is very strange. I'd like to see a 5150 steel core used for durability reasons.

 

[UncleDave]

All the stock V8's are watered down to the point of being really tame.

Uncork them and you'll never want anything else except maybe a big block.

Probably only half a dozen guys here have even experienced what a good running NA V8 is like.

Heres what you can put together for 10K in garage with all the right parts.

basically its a 500/500 mill on pump gas with an 800 RPM idle.

 

[2EHA]

All the stock V8's are watered down to the point of being really tame.

Uncork them and you'll never want anything else except maybe a big block.

Probably only half a dozen guys here have even experienced what a good running NA V8 is like.

Heres what you can put together for 10K in garage with all the right parts.

basically its a 500/500 mill on pump gas with an 800 RPM idle.

View attachment 55079

a 5 figure 500/500 build is not impressive

you can buy a 500/500 NA V8 and a whole car with it for that money

 

[UncleDave]

a 5 figure 500/500 build is not impressive

you can buy a 500/500 NA V8 and a whole car with it for that money

Compared to the casper milquetoast mills in half ton trucks it is.

As for what kind of 500hp car you can get for 10K start a thread and show us what you got.

 

[2EHA]

As for what kind of 500hp car you can get for 10K start a thread and show us what you got.

6.2 CLS63 and E63.....

notoriously cheap cars. same boring and torqueless experience as the 392 charger for a third of the price

 

[UncleDave]

6.2 CLS63 and E63.....

In another thread you had an e55.....

For 10K car and engine ?

You might find a clapped out one of those in a junkyard, but you could not hope to build a complete one of those engine from scratch for 10K
and it needs two turbos to make what a small block does with a holley 4 barrel.

Lets see some picts of what you get for 10K

 

[2EHA]

In another thread you had an e55.....

For 10K car and engine ?

Lets see some picts.

55 is even easier lol. i paid 30k in 2014 and sold for 14 4 years later. they drop like a rock even though they’re good cars if you accept you’re not getting past 500whp without $$$$$$

go on marketplace and you’ll find tons of running/driving cars for that money, bottom of the barrel totally clapped out salvage cars are 5-7k. you can’t give away a 55 or a 6.2 unless it’s a wagon.

anyways my point is you can get a 500/almost 500 NA engine and a car to go with it for 10k.

 

[Oillover]

...I still don't see any pics
Maybe there's something wrong with my browser?