NASCAR and Japanese brands

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quote:

Originally posted by dwendt44:
What was the response when NASCAR reduced the engine size from 7 liters to 5.7?
Given advance notice( three years from now-5 liters, guys!), the teams would have plenty of time to develop their engines. Wouldn't cost much more that testing and proving the engines they run now. Many may be using the smaller engine already in other races, or as street H.O. units.
Any major change costs some development money, change still comes, eventually.


Given that Nascar regulates almost everything on the motors I doubt the cost would be that high compared to the current engine programs and having a different one for plate engines vs. normal engines.

I'm not sure it would solve much though. Look at how the cars run now with the plate engines that make less than 500 HP. Getting a 5 liter small block to make almost 500 hp in a limited rpm range and live for 4 hours I doubt would be difficult for the current engine builders...
 
The problem I have with restricter plate racing is that it's turned it into more of a luck thing than skill. What I'd like to see is more drag on the cars but still plenty of horsepower so you could pull off a slingshot like the old days. Look how racy the trucks are there. The smaller motor thing would be really expensive. None of these folks make a 5 liter engine, the engines they use resemble production engines from the past, but there is a whole industry geared up to supply the internal parts. New sized parts would require new tooling and until the quantities came up the price would be high. Look at how much more the V6's in Busch used to cost.

Like I said, no thanks, it's good to have my Sunday afternoons back. It's not the racing I got interested in during my youth, and spec racing just doesn't have the allure for me.

I went to a vintage/amatuer race at Road Atlanta this year, I think I'll take some more of that.
 
Nascar had their own answer to this engine question a few years back when the Busch series ran a V-6, and the Winston cup ran V-8's. That was also the era when there were few cup regulars invading the lower series (which everyone in nascar is worrying about, the so called "buschwackers"). Full cup fields, and full busch fields with the odd crossover.

The only difference between the series now is that the busch series is experimenting with unleaded gas, where the top series still runs leaded!!
 
quote:

Originally posted by jsharp:
One other thing - Put my vote in with Al Unser and the other guys who say that aerodynamics has ruined racing. Look at how hard it is to pass in F1, or Nascar, or anywhere with high speeds. A car needs to be much faster to pass because when you're right behind someone you lose much of your aerodynamic traction...

But doesn't the car getting drafted loss some of it's downforce also? I heard that was why Nascar went to the funky rear wing that looks like a wall, it creates turbulent air after the car and makes drafting less beneficial.

Regarding the trailing car losing downforce, its more of a problem in corners (where they need the downforce). On a straight that = less drag and more top speed.


WRC > F1 > Indy > Nascar > BMX
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Rural people aren't a bunch of idiots just waiting for someone to take advantage of them. I bet the average rural IQ is somewhere around the city IQ, or vise versa. Maybe they have different values and goals, but, I don't think that much of a difference in intelligence. If someone offers us a job at a respectable wage; sure we’ll take it.
 
yeah, b/c all those rural areas are mecca's of industry and education, right?
that's why all the enlightened minds are flocking there.
 
quote:

Originally posted by gtx510:
yeah, b/c all those rural areas are mecca's of industry and education, right?
that's why all the enlightened minds are flocking there.


Such an "enlightened" statement from an "enlightened" mind from an "enlightened" place.
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Someone should have told Nissan. They just moved their HQ to Tennessee.

I do know some people who live in "enlightened" areas though. When I see them paying $475K for an 850 sq. ft. "house" on .15 acres in the hood I feel thankful for my lack of edumacation. I obviously left school with some of my common sense still in tact...
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quote:

Originally posted by Papa Bear:
Toyota will buy G.M. and then it's a moot point.
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P.B.

You know ... like a Daimler HEMI


More likely Ford and GM will merge. They are already building transmissions together..
 
quote:

Originally posted by jsharp:
When I see them paying $475K for an 850 sq. ft. "house" on .15 acres in the hood I feel thankful for my lack of edumacation. I obviously left school with some of my common sense still in tact...
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[/QB]

Tha aptly named M. Sharp has no lack of edumacation...
 
"Stock car" racing should really be stock car racing. That would allow us consumers to buy the exact car they are running in the race. Of course, the race version would have to put in extra safety features and cage. They should have each manufacturer make at least 1,000 of each vehicle that is raced. The actual cars to be raced will be randomly chose by VIN by the racing association.

We could see the GM Camaro, Ford Mustang, and Dodge Charger racing against each other, oh yeah, and the Toyota Camry
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quote:

Originally posted by biomed_eng_2000:
"Stock car" racing should really be stock car racing. That would allow us consumers to buy the exact car they are running in the race. Of course, the race version would have to put in extra safety features and cage. They should have each manufacturer make at least 1,000 of each vehicle that is raced. The actual cars to be raced will be randomly chose by VIN by the racing association.

We could see the GM Camaro, Ford Mustang, and Dodge Charger racing against each other, oh yeah, and the Toyota Camry
smile.gif


I'd love to see that! Closest thing to that is on a Sunday night at Slinger Superspeedway when they have "spectator eliminator" races. Race what ya drove to the track for 3 laps against one other car, and the winner gets braging rights and a T-shirt.

That'd make my day watching some RWD American muscle whoop up on a frumpy, sedate, FWD family sedan stock vs. stock.
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The race between the Camaro, Mustang and Charger might get challenging while trying to get thru all the 10x + lapped Camrys though.
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quote:

Originally posted by biomed_eng_2000:
"Stock car" racing should really be stock car racing. That would allow us consumers to buy the exact car they are running in the race. Of course, the race version would have to put in extra safety features and cage. They should have each manufacturer make at least 1,000 of each vehicle that is raced. The actual cars to be raced will be randomly chose by VIN by the racing association.

We could see the GM Camaro, Ford Mustang, and Dodge Charger racing against each other, oh yeah, and the Toyota Camry
smile.gif


At the club racing level you're talking about SCCA A Sedan cars. The Grand-Am GS class cars are the more modern pro series where these cars race. The new Mustangs were dominant there until they kept adding weight to them to give the european cars a chance.
 
The "S" in NASCAR used to mean "STOCK" ,now it means "SHOW". I stopped watching it back when there were no longer cars like the Buick Grand National. "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday" was the point of manufacturer involement back then. Now the cars are just rolling billboards for Home Depot, Viagra, etc.
 
theoretically, nascar has never incorporated "stock" production cars. nascar is based of moonshine running, and those original moonshine cars were modified to no end so they could outrun cops and still carry gallons of shine hidden in the fenders and such.
 
They were very much production cars, tweaked, but rolling chassis and body, right off the line. Even the strange Plymouth Superbird was sold to the general public because the old NASCAR ruled demanded it. The "competition" version of the 1957 chevy had special frame reinforcements, shocks and mounts, pickup truck brakes, hubs and wheels. That is hardly a substantially different car than the one you could buy right of the showroom floor.

You cannot in all honesty compare the racing modifications of back then to the completely custom-built dedicated race cars they run today.
 
Funny how a bunch of random guys can figure out how to do it better. My 2 cents on this goes this way.
1. 5.0 liter maximum displacement
2. Any quarter panel, door, hood, and trunk lids must be over the counter pieces. Fenders can still be custom formed as long as they meet the height, depth and length of the originals. Wheel base must be the same as the factory showroom cars. The bumper to wheel center must also match the factory model also.
3. Restrictor plates cost far more than $5.
These teams spend 100's of thousands of dollars in dyno room time trying to squeeze 10 hp out of an engine. By cutting the cubic inches by 15% you would see a cut of at least 100 HP out of the engines.
4. Stock block motors only. What ever you and I can buy from the manufacture at our local new car dealer. The actual Nascar engine block must be made available to the public for under say $3,000 bare block with 4 bolt caps.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Master ACiD:
theoretically, nascar has never incorporated "stock" production cars. nascar is based of moonshine running, and those original moonshine cars were modified to no end so they could outrun cops and still carry gallons of shine hidden in the fenders and such.

+1 to that. The whole point to stock car racing, and a lot of the enjoyment in it, is to take a car that is stock and modify as much as you can afford to modify (and these days, as much as NASCAR allows you to modify), from the bottom of the tires to the top of the roof and from bumper to bumper, so that it will beat the other cars in the race. Even back in the days of the "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday" advertising, everyone who followed stock car racing, the manufacturers, dealers, car buyers, and race fans, knew that the cars that were raced were heavily modified and that buying the same model did not get you the same performance as the race cars got.
 
"3. Restrictor plates cost far more than $5.
These teams spend 100's of thousands of dollars in dyno room time trying to squeeze 10 hp out of an engine. By cutting the cubic inches by 15% you would see a cut of at least 100 HP out of the engines."


Yes, if they gave the teams a couple years to use up existing parts and begin development of the new engine, the 'extra cost' would be negligible.

Also, could they start limiting compression ratios? Couldn't a quick compression check verify who was legal and who wasn't?

Then they'd be able to run pump gas ... maybe 93.5-94 octane, but still pump gas.

--- Bror Jace
 
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