Mystik by Citgo 100% gas, same as Citgo

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43
Location
Tennessee
Hey all. So doing the search on that website that shows all the 100% gas stations in your area I was able to find 100% gas in 93 octane. I called while I was driving and asked what kind of gas. The station name was Parker's Auto Service, a self serve and service type place with one bay. New style pumps that looked great but no pay at the pump.I pumped my own gas but they have a window washer, gas pumper, check the fluids guy there. Anyway all I got from the older lady answering the phone was Mystik made by Citgo. Citgo, BP, Exxon are the top tiers I use in my city. This place and Midnight Oil are the only ones in my area with pure 93 octane gas. Does anyone know of Mystik, is it the same gas as Citgo sold to the franchise company. The size of the station coupled with location. I can't see a big rig pulling in to dump fuel at the pumps at this place. It's on a main commercial road here with 5 lanes counting the turn lane. A big fuel truck would have to park in the road to do it's thing. I don't see that happening. So that has me wondering. I drive a lightly modified 03 Infiniti G35, performance and efficiency is always what I look at first, longetivity second. I want the best of anything from my wipers to my oil filter with magnets. I was honestly within 1 gallon or less of running out of gas because I had to drive 20 miles to the location. I keep an eye on all sensors, fuel trims when driving through Torque Pro. With this 93 100% gasoline I noticed my fuel trims look better than ever I've seen in my 9K miles of owning this car. As close to zero as they ever are and going negative deeper on short and long term fuel trims than I've ever seen on my car. 93 octane pure gas is like gold these days so I don't have a huge amount of miles lately with data logging other than the Midnight Oil 100% gasoline that I know nothing about. Thoughts if anyone has interest or knowledge
 
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5,629
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San Francisco Bay Area
I'd think that if your area has several refiners making 93 octane premium unleaded, you'll probably be getting some sort of commodity fuel. The way fuel is distributed around the country means that there's no guarantee as to who refined the fuel. They all get sent by pipeline to fuel depots where they can get mixed with the equivalent fuel from several refineries. The thing that generally differentiates fuel is the additive package. Even if they buy the base fuel from a major manufacturer, they might also only purchase a generic additive package added at the fuel depot to the delivered fuel.
 
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They have an MSDS with a disclaimer at the bottom:
Quote:
http://www.docs.citgo.com/msds_pi/MYS-UNL.pdf Mystik is a registered trademark of CITGO Petroleum Corporation
Fuel distribution is a convoluted issue. Even if they're buying from a specific supplier, often the process of getting fuel delivered is more like banking at an ATM. Let's say this independent gas station is purchasing through this Mystik division, which appears to actually be Citgo. The fuel itself may not be from their refinery. It could be partially from their refinery. I doubt you're located terribly close to one of their refineries. They probably pay a pipeline company to accept X amount of a commodity fuel at their refinery and then make that much fuel available at multiple fuel depots including one close to your location. The pipeline operator treats the fuel as a fungible commodity where brand name is irrelevant as it's supposed to meet certain standards that all refiners will meet. The pipeline company figures out the most efficient way to get the requested amount of equivalent fuel to your local fuel depot, whether or not it's actually from their refinery or one that's closer. Then when the tanker driver shows up to accept the delivery, everything is accounted for as if it were an ATM withdrawal. I don't know if the fuel will receive a generic or proprietary additive. I generally assume that independent gas stations don't get anything more than EPA required minimum using a generic additive available at the depot.
 
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10,001
Location
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Fuel distribution is a convoluted issue. Even if they're buying from a specific supplier, often the process of getting fuel delivered is more like banking at an ATM. The pipeline company figures out the most efficient way to get the requested amount of equivalent fuel to your local fuel depot, whether or not it's actually from their refinery or one that's closer.
Years ago... I remember reading Chevron was the only company left with dedicated pipelines and trucks. I seriously doubt that's true anymore. Gasoline is a commodity, and everyone makes it to meet spec - and that's all. That's why the additives are added when the truck fills at the depot - it's impossible to segregate a specific refined product from the pipeline anymore.
 

OilSwag

Thread starter
Messages
43
Location
Tennessee
Thanks for the replies, I love this forum. I have to say at the age of 35, and my 20+ years on the internet this group has to be one of the most educated groups. What I'm getting from all this is each individual gas station could add whatever additives they deem fit. Minimal or better quality. Like a Exxon at this place could be different than a Exxon 30 miles east or wherever. My car requires premium, no way around it. I would love to have more 93 E0 options. I feel as an American I should have an option for E0 gas and not forced into a E10 gas. Again I appreciate all the comments. I always learn something.
 
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2,746
Location
San Antonio, TX
Branded stations have to use an additive package approved by that brand, or risk losing their branded status. It's highly unlikely two Exxon stations 30 miles apart would use different additive packages and remain Exxon stations. That close together they likely pull from the same truck rack that has an agreement to stock Exxon approved additives and where Exxon has a supply agreement.
 

OilSwag

Thread starter
Messages
43
Location
Tennessee
Found this quote from eia.gov.... "The U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) cannot identify the origin of gasoline sold at fueling stations." I've always been a believer that if certain information isn't available it's because they don't want that information available. I want to get what I pay for and know what I'm buying. I don't want to buy a phone at Best buy that says Apple but looks like Samsung and made by Sony with parts from a LG. It's kinda of a fishy industry when you look at it. I guess I'm rambling but we can't even buy a pack of 10 cent noodles without knowing the full ingredients
 
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5,629
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Originally Posted By: OilSwag
Found this quote from eia.gov.... "The U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) cannot identify the origin of gasoline sold at fueling stations." I've always been a believer that if certain information isn't available it's because they don't want that information available. I want to get what I pay for and know what I'm buying. I don't want to buy a phone at Best buy that says Apple but looks like Samsung and made by Sony with parts from a LG. It's kinda of a fishy industry when you look at it. I guess I'm rambling but we can't even buy a pack of 10 cent noodles without knowing the full ingredients
Well - the issue that you have is that fuel is a commodity. I know there's a desire that somehow a brand name means something, but in the case of fuel it doesn't really. Every single oil refinery in the United States can and does make a fuel to spec. If it doesn't meet spec, it'll get shut down by government regulators or the pipeline operators will refuse to accept their fuel. There might be measurable variations, but for the most part 91 octane summer unleaded is a fungible commodity. It's far easier to route fuel from the closest refinery rather than a particular refiner. So the delivery that Citgo might have in Tennessee will actually come from a closer refinery. I guess a "segregated" delivery can be requested, but it's going to be inefficient and more expensive compared to letting the pipeline company figure out how to efficiently get X amount of 87 octane unleaded to a certain fuel depot. Even if you mix base fuels from 5 different refineries, it still meets the spec.
Quote:
http://www.colpipe.com/home/about-colonial/frequently-asked-questions Fungible products shipped on the Colonial system are generic products. These products meet published Colonial specifications. Shippers will receive equivalent product but may not get back the actual product shipped. Segregated products are branded products or blendstock materials. On segregated shipments shippers receive the same product they injected into the system.
And as several chimed in, what really makes a major brand name different is a specific additive package and concentration. The strange thing is even then those are often just purchased from a large chemical company like Afton, BASF, or Lubrizol that's already certified the results. And as much as Shell makes it seem like they have chemists working on their additive formulas, I can't find anything from Shell or ExxonMobile on the EPA list of certified generic gasoline additives. Not even their Infineum joint venture. As far as buying an Apple phone - it's assembled by a contract manufacturer like Foxconn or Quanta. And the parts may be made by any number of companies like Samsung, TSMC, LG, and Qualcomm.
 
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5,629
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San Francisco Bay Area
Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
Branded stations have to use an additive package approved by that brand, or risk losing their branded status. It's highly unlikely two Exxon stations 30 miles apart would use different additive packages and remain Exxon stations. That close together they likely pull from the same truck rack that has an agreement to stock Exxon approved additives and where Exxon has a supply agreement.
About the only thing I can think of is that certain brand names don't actually require any proprietary additives. Until Valero went Top Tier, I think their deliveries used whatever generic additive was available at the fuel depot. Of course they probably use a "branded" additive now. And there are some brands that are Top Tier certified but where the distribution in different regions belongs to multiple companies. The Arco brand name is distributed by BP in certain areas, but by Tesoro in others. It would't surprise me if the different distributors had different additives, even though they both are supposed to meet the Top Tier requirements.
 
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San Francisco Bay Area
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Fuel distribution is a convoluted issue. Even if they're buying from a specific supplier, often the process of getting fuel delivered is more like banking at an ATM. The pipeline company figures out the most efficient way to get the requested amount of equivalent fuel to your local fuel depot, whether or not it's actually from their refinery or one that's closer.
Years ago... I remember reading Chevron was the only company left with dedicated pipelines and trucks. I seriously doubt that's true anymore. Gasoline is a commodity, and everyone makes it to meet spec - and that's all. That's why the additives are added when the truck fills at the depot - it's impossible to segregate a specific refined product from the pipeline anymore.
Well - it's possible. Colonial says it can do segregated deliveries. However, it's going to take more time and it's going to cost more. That's not cost effective when what you're trying to move is a commodity. And I'm pretty sure that Chevron isn't insisting on sending the exact same fuel from their refinery in Mississippi to their branded stations in Pennsylvania. That just makes no sense when they could just accept commodity fuel made closer to the destination.
 
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2,746
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San Antonio, TX
Additive packages are sophisticated enough now that testing of additized gasoline can tell whose package it is, or maybe more importantly, isn't. You've maybe seen the Exxon commercials where they refer to marker moleculss as the final ingredient? That type technology has been in play for well over a decade now, Exxon commercials are the first I've heard publicly advertise it (but not really go into depth on the subject of any of the ingredients of course). It's more than just for determining additive package concentration. http://synergy.exxon.com/
 
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Oilswag, did you watch the short video I embedded on the Valero Memphis refinery? That's most likely where your area's fuel supply comes from, they move a lot of their volume across the refinery truck rack.
 
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Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
Additive packages are sophisticated enough now that testing of additized gasoline can tell whose package it is, or maybe more importantly, isn't. You've maybe seen the Exxon commercials where they refer to marker moleculss as the final ingredient? That type technology has been in play for well over a decade now, Exxon commercials are the first I've heard publicly advertise it (but not really go into depth on the subject of any of the ingredients of course). It's more than just for determining additive package concentration. http://synergy.exxon.com/
I suspect that ExxonMobil doesn't make their additive. There's nothing on the EPA approved list of certified detergent additives from ExxonMobil or Infineum. It wouldn't surprise me if it was actually developed as a proprietary additive by one of the large chemical companies, like how Costco had Lubrizol develop Lubrizol 9888 as their own proprietary additive. The BP Amoco additive is listed as being made by Innospec. However, I suppose that doesn't preclude them from using the additive as a "tracer" as you suggest. https://www3.epa.gov/otaq/fuels1/ffars/web-detrg.htm
 
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Originally Posted By: OilSwag
Thanks for the replies, I love this forum. I have to say at the age of 35, and my 20+ years on the internet this group has to be one of the most educated groups. What I'm getting from all this is each individual gas station could add whatever additives they deem fit. Minimal or better quality. Like a Exxon at this place could be different than a Exxon 30 miles east or wherever. My car requires premium, no way around it. I would love to have more 93 E0 options. I feel as an American I should have an option for E0 gas and not forced into a E10 gas. Again I appreciate all the comments. I always learn something.
It's a more complicated issue than just what people want. You actually live in a part of the country where the demand for premium unleaded is low, so it's more feasible to sell a good amount of 93 octane E0. I live in a part of the country with a lot of vehicles that require 91 octane and quite a few even say that 93 is recommended. There was a time when 92 octane was the most common premium, but then that went away as a response to meet the demand for premium. And as much as you don't like ethanol, its use actually makes it easier to distribute higher octane fuels. Ethanol is an extremely effective octane booster, to the point where most base fuel is designed to mix with 8-10% ethanol just to meet the pump octane number. And if you're looking to get anything higher than 91 octane (R+M)/2 in California it's going to require the blending of 100 octane racing fuel, which is several times the price of premium unleaded. As far as your claim, every brand has its own requirements. For the most part if you have a Chevron franchise agreement, you have to purchase all your fuel via Chevron and your fuel will be treated with Chevron's proprietary additive at levels set by Chevron. Trying to use fuel purchased on the spot market would be a violation of the franchise agreement. However, I've mentioned that at one time Valero didn't have its own proprietary additive and deliveries of fuel to Valero stations could use any generic additive available at the fuel depot. While the additive may be proprietary, the fuel rarely is. It just doesn't make any sense for any number of reasons to insist that fuel at a certain gas station must come from a specific refinery tied to the brand name. Refineries get shut down for various reasons including accidents and planned maintenance. The transportation costs often can't be justified. Fuel is mostly made to a generic standard and everyone is supposed to be happy because nobody makes a substandard product.
 
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2,746
Location
San Antonio, TX
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
Additive packages are sophisticated enough now that testing of additized gasoline can tell whose pahckage it is, or maybe more importantly, isn't. You've maybe seen the Exxon commercials where they refer to marker moleculss as the final ingredient? That type technology has been in play for well over a decade now, Exxon commercials are the first I've heard publicly advertise it (but not really go into depth on the subject of any of the ingredients of course). It's more than just for determining additive package concentration. http://synergy.exxon.com/
I suspect that ExxonMobil doesn't make their additive. There's nothing on the EPA approved list of certified detergent additives from ExxonMobil or Infineum. It wouldn't surprise me if it was actually developed as a proprietary additive by one of the large chemical companies, like how Costco had Lubrizol develop Lubrizol 9888 as their own proprietary additive. The BP Amoco additive is listed as being made by Innospec. However, I suppose that doesn't preclude them from using the additive as a "tracer" as you suggest. https://www3.epa.gov/otaq/fuels1/ffars/web-detrg.htm
What I'm saying is some companies have used different "marker molecules" in their additive packages for years, regardless of who makes the additive package, to identify fuel spiked with their brand's additive package. AFAIK there's no legislative requirement for this, it's something each company /branding can decide on. I know Diamond Shamrock, who Valero got their first entry to retail through, did not. However treat rates for different customers were in fact different. Now it's 15 or more years down the road. Now Valero has sold all their retail originally to Corner Stores, now they're owned by Couche Tarde, and Valero's CEO complains on how RINs are applied with no company owned retail arm. Here in San Antonio, the home HQ for Valero, there are some Shell corner stores and probably a few other brands. As Valero is now back to being a pure merchant refiner, I see no incentive for there to be a Valero additive package with Valero specific "marker molecules". Just meetint Top Tier should be sufficient. Costco wouldn't need "marker molecules" since they additize solely at point of sale.
 
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