I’ve thought about this. However, it seems all of the fuel additive brands have removed the every-tank maintenance doses from the directions. Not sure of the reasoning behind them doing that.
Are Shell/Exxon better than other Top Tier gasolines?
- Thread starter mojoe
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Patman
Staff member
I doubt it would be cheaper. How much are you saving by going to the cheapest gas station in town vs a TT one? 5 cents per gallon? 10 cents per gallon? Even if it’s 10 cents per gallon and you have a 15 gallon tank, where are you getting a dose of PEA that treats 15 gallons of gas and only costs you $1.50?
I'm not sure there is a right or wrong answer here. I have used Red Line fuel treatment, and one bottle @ approx $15 is good for 3,000 miles. I also pass an Exxon and Shell station every day. They are always price competitive with other local Top Tier stations like QT/Marathon/Citgo, especially when I use their app and apply the 10 cent/gallon discount. Either way seems like a reasonable way to keep injectors clean.
If I pump 93 octane at Costco vs pumping at Sunoco, I would save 60 cents per gallon. 10 gallons would be $6. Buying a bottle of PEA additive and add 1 oz of it (say about $1) it is still cheaper.
Patman
Staff member
But if you’re getting gas at Costco, it’s a TT station and you are already getting a good amount of cleaners so you wouldn’t need to add anything to it.
Right. But the title says is this brand better than the other. So I came up with the idea of using cheap TT gas and add additives. It would be much cost effective than paying for Shell itself.
There’s a question as to whether a cocktail of different additives that weren’t tested together is going to be synergistic. But Costco claims that their additive is used at 5x the concentration needed for meeting EPA minimums.
I haven't had any problems doing it either.
I think we are arguing or talking about two very different things here. My original question was "is there any reason to think that Shell or Exxon regular 87 octane is better, or has a better additive package than say regular 87 gas from QT, Costco, Citgo, and other Top Tier fuels?"
I have followed up in this thread that there is reason to think that yes, Exxon and Shell have a stronger or better detergent additive package.
Since then, that original question has been tweaked to compare Exxon/Shell with cheaper Top Tier gas brands (not cheaper gas in general) and adding aftermarket fuel additives (Seafoam/Techron/RedLine, etc.).
My response to this follow up is twofold. First, as someone else has pointed out, the synergistic effects of adding aftermarket detergents to the existing detergent packs in Top Tier fuels is unkinown, and may not produce a better result. Second, where I live both Shell and Exxon Regular 87 octane are price competitive with or cheaper than most QT/Costco/Citgo or other Top Tier stations to begin with, but especially when using their customer discount apps.
I maintain my daughter's car as well, and she does NOT seek out TT gas, and just buys whatever is most convenient. In that case, I add a bottle of Red Line every 3-4 months. I use Exxon or Shell in our other two cars, with no additionl aftermarket additives.
I know it may be different in different parts of the country, but here I don't think there is a significant $$$ advantage either way.
I have followed up in this thread that there is reason to think that yes, Exxon and Shell have a stronger or better detergent additive package.
Since then, that original question has been tweaked to compare Exxon/Shell with cheaper Top Tier gas brands (not cheaper gas in general) and adding aftermarket fuel additives (Seafoam/Techron/RedLine, etc.).
My response to this follow up is twofold. First, as someone else has pointed out, the synergistic effects of adding aftermarket detergents to the existing detergent packs in Top Tier fuels is unkinown, and may not produce a better result. Second, where I live both Shell and Exxon Regular 87 octane are price competitive with or cheaper than most QT/Costco/Citgo or other Top Tier stations to begin with, but especially when using their customer discount apps.
I maintain my daughter's car as well, and she does NOT seek out TT gas, and just buys whatever is most convenient. In that case, I add a bottle of Red Line every 3-4 months. I use Exxon or Shell in our other two cars, with no additionl aftermarket additives.
I know it may be different in different parts of the country, but here I don't think there is a significant $$$ advantage either way.
I don't anticipate it being any worse, but obviously the idea of additional additives is to hopefully make it better. Obviously it's impossible to know short of running some expensive test.
I certainly don't have an issue with cocktails of different detergent additives. I freely mix and match different brands of gas. But it's human to want the best possible outcome, even if it may be a matter of spending money on diminishing returns.
I look at how rental car agencies treat their fleets. They certainly would have a difficult time mandating specific classes of fuels be used by customers. And for the most part they get their own deliveries of fuel or use fleet refueling services (like CFN) that generally meet EPA minimums. I certainly wouldn't go out of my way (or take the hit to my pocketbook) of getting the most expensive fuel to top off a rental car.
Me either.
But for a rental car agency, they're probably happy enough that a customer filled up the tank. Or even where they didn't and get to charge an exorbitant price. But I would think a steady diet of EPA minimum required detergent additive (including all manner of mixing) is enough to get a car to the point where it can be sold used. Or perhaps their regular maintenance procedures include aftermarket additives.
I have no idea what rental agencies do, or why they do or don't do it. Speaking in broad generalities, I think it's safe to say there are some advantages to using Top Tier gas, or aftermarket detergent additives, regardless of what rental agencies do.
I was also thinking of commercial fleets, where I'd think they'd worry about the long term reliability and fuel economy of their vehicles. I mentioned CFM, which uses a variety of different sources, including their own branded stations as well as piggybacking off of brand name stations (many of which are Top Tier). That's not to say that Top Tier isn't better, but there is the possibility that many people overthink it.
Wait, are you suggesting that anyone on this forum would overthink car related stuff? SURELY NOT!
Just happened to be at Costco to get gas when the tanker was there. I talked with the driver, who seemed well educated on gasoline and additives. He said the fuel delivered to Costco is just regular minimum additized gasoline from the rack, whether regular 87 or premium 93. Where the magic comes from is the big Kirkland Signature tank on the edge of the station. As I was talking with the tank driver, the station attendant came over and started going over the delivery with him. The station attendant said it was critical to get as an exact amount delivered as possible as he would calibrate the addition of the Kirkland additive based on fuel delivered. He showed me the additive tank and the liquid that goes into the underground tanks. It seemed pretty thick and had a really foul smell, but would take up fuel from the tank and mix in the additive until it came to a properly additized rate for the underground tank volume. The station guy said Costco is very particular about the procedure so it can say their fuel is 5 times the mandated additive amount in both grades. Evidently Costco worked closely with their additive supplier (rumored to be Lubrizol's Ultrazol 9888) in developing the formula so it would provide excellent cleaning ability far beyond minimum standards. The station attendant said he constantly gets customers swearing by how well the fuel helps keeping their cars running so good. He has chalked it up to the additive, and how precisely administered it is as to the reason why.
Edit: Got the additive manufacture mixed up with the one for local station Spinx. Mea cculpa.
Edit: Got the additive manufacture mixed up with the one for local station Spinx. Mea cculpa.
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Patman
Staff member
A rental car agency doesn’t keep a car long enough for it to have fuel system issues (those caused by lesser quality fuel I mean) Even with a steady diet of the cheapest fuel available the engine isn’t going to be that dirty in the short period of time that it’s in the rental fleet (have you ever seen a rental car with 50,000 miles on it? I haven’t)
Thinking I'd save a few bucks each fill-up, this past OCI, I switched from using Shell premium to 87 octane Top Tier fuel from Quik Trip in the new Honda, supplemented using Redline SI-1. When I changed the oil and filter, there was a lot of carbon in the filter, and when I got the used oil analysis results back from Speediagnostix, LSJR asked "Are you using 87 octane fuel?".
The only thing having changed during the last OCI and the one before was changing the fuel source and type. I've gone back to Shell Premium and will see how the filter and used oil analysis look next oil change.
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