My winter tire musings for 23-24 - BMW 535 w/ mods

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It's that time of year again - do I need new winter tires and what would I get?

I have a 2011 BMW 535i X-Drive with some mods - KWv3 coilovers (modest ~1" drop in ride height), sway bars and some software stuff. For its size the handling is pretty sharp and I like a car that handles well. I'm far from being a kid and I drive like an adult, but the suspension out-drives winter tires so easily. My R2s are borderline in tread depth and age. I'm on the Canada side of the Great Lakes area and do not have a "gotta get there" job presently, although that may be changing in the months to come. I may still push them one more season and defer the expense.

I've had a decent number of winter tires in my life. My list of winter tires used on German sedans: Michelin Arctic Alpin (*), Dunlop Wintersport M3, Hakkapeliitta RSi, Blizzak WS60 (*), Dunlop Wintersport 3D (*), Hakkapeliitta R2 with "in the family" experience with Pilot Alpin PA2, Pirelli Snowsport 210. Tires marked with (*) came with a car or wheel package I purchased second hand and weren't chosen by me.

Shockingly, I feel like the WS60s (came with an E90 328i I had for a couple of years after my E39 was totalled) were the best balance of least wet/dry compromise but the winter traction I needed when I needed it. I was shocked based on my Blizzak pre-conceptions, but the fact that the PO went lower profile than I would usually run on my winter setup may have contributed to this positive result along with the 3-series platform simply being far more nimble to begin with without requiring heroics from the tires.

My shortlist as it stands today: Conti VikingContact 7, Michelin X-Ice Snow, maybe Michelin Pilot Alpin PA4 - though I'm not necessarily sold on reentering the "performance" category. I threw out my Dunlop M3s with lots of tread depth remaining because they lost all winter traction after one short season. The Dunlop 3Ds did OK until they aged and lost grip in fresh snow near freezing and clear wet conditions but somehow always had a huge mismatch between ice/snow braking traction and acceleration/turning (like 1:3 or 1:4, meaning low braking grip).

I have read praise of the VC7 as a great all-rounder, but it's been out for several years and may be surpassed now. A like-minded friend with a GTI reported to me that he felt more confident in all conditions on Xi3s over the VC7s he has now. I've read that the X-Ice Snow has long life and good wet/dry manners while still being top tier in the messy stuff. I assume the PA4 is pretty good, but I'm not sure to what degree I'll be compromised in slippery conditions compared to the X-Ice, and the pricing here on anything with "Pilot" in the name is cringe-worthy. How much winter grip does a PA4 lose compared to X-Ice Snow? Are they really only for cold, dry, sunny days?

Open to thoughts and discussion.
 
Both the VC7 and xice snow handle like a standard low performance all season.. which is a huge upgrade from some winter tires.

I REALLY like the VC7 on the 2020 elantra. I have less experience with the xice snow on my 22 subaru but they are an excellent tire as well.

I would have put the VC7 on the subaru but being a tire nut I wanted to try out the michelins. Also got an unbeatable deal on them.

neither is anywhere close to a blizzak ws-50 or nokian R2 dry weather disaster tire.

Funny you would mention those dunlops I had a set of M3's on a 2007 focus 2 years were great..3rd year I was sliding through intersections at half the speed..
It was sort of fun as long as you were the only guy on the road..... car was a zx3 hatchback with no ABS and a MT.

From non personal experience(I havent owned any) the Alpins are for cold weather driving not so much any sort of severe weather.
basically you take off your summer performance tires and put on winter performance tires knowing you wont be driving in heavy snow but maybe some ice and snowflakes.

If I wanted a performance tire I'd buy a continental but most of their best models arent sold here.

You could also run an all weather as a winter tire (michelin CC2?)

or maybe the VREDESTEIN WINTRAC PRO
 
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I had VikingContact 7. Exceptional tire. Have not tried X-Ice SNow, but I would bet Michelin will be better in dry, and wet, while VC7 is probably better in snow, ice.
I got as replacement Blizzak WS90. It is very close to VC7. It is particularly good in wet for a snow tire. I did not go with VC7 as I went different size and they were too expensive to justify purchase over WS90.
I think of these 3 I mentioned, you really cannot go wrong.
 
Son, you need a winter beater. Only input I have is to use a set of dedicated tires mounted on steel wheels that are narrower and taller than your summer tires. A chin spoiler on a lowered suspension isn't my 1st choice of a winter car, either. :cool:
 
X-Ice Snow and VikingContact 7 are both good choices. Have you looked at the Nokian R5?

 
Both the VC7 and xice snow handle like a standard low performance all season.. which is a huge upgrade from some winter tires.

Thanks for this and all of your comments. It is reassuring that someone feels either of these choices will be less of a disaster in the dry. :)

I had VikingContact 7. Exceptional tire. Have not tried X-Ice SNow, but I would bet Michelin will be better in dry, and wet, while VC7 is probably better in snow, ice.
I got as replacement Blizzak WS90. It is very close to VC7. It is particularly good in wet for a snow tire. I did not go with VC7 as I went different size and they were too expensive to justify purchase over WS90.
I think of these 3 I mentioned, you really cannot go wrong.

It's likely going to be a close race, and all three of these are trading blows at the top it seems. Got a great deal of WS90s for the SO's kids' car so I'll get to check those out later as well. SO's Sienna got X-Ice Snows. Just have to pick what to get myself, or eek out another winter on the R2s.

I'd love to keep hearing more firsthand comments on the Michelin vs. VC7. As I mentioned a friend who had both said the Xi3s (not the same as the Snow) and has the VC7 now and said he prefers the Michelins.

Son, you need a winter beater. Only input I have is to use a set of dedicated tires mounted on steel wheels that are narrower and taller than your summer tires. A chin spoiler on a lowered suspension isn't my 1st choice of a winter car, either. :cool:

The 18s are my narrower and taller dedicated winter wheels. :) An additional car isn't in the cards. Ground clearance is an issue with any BMW I've had (E39 w/ 704 sport package, E90 w/ 704 sport package, and F10 with KWv3s). Oddly the F10 has the least clearance issues - go figure.

X-Ice Snow and VikingContact 7 are both good choices. Have you looked at the Nokian R5?


I've had RSis (I had to stay home when it was 10C and raining or I'd slide off the road), R2s (both on the F10 and a Sienna) and R3s (didn't last very long on a Sienna compared to R2). I don't know that I'm going to buy into Hakkas again this time around. I have noticed that they really kick butt during serious cold snaps (e.g. at least -10C if not below -15C) and really tighten up in the dry. A lot of the rest of the time they are "too extreme" for our typical temperature range and somewhat outside of their element. In -20C and dry the RSis (the same ones that would slide off of a wet road at 10C) started to feel closer to my PS2s in the summer.
 
Funny you would mention those dunlops I had a set of M3's on a 2007 focus 2 years were great..3rd year I was sliding through intersections at half the speed..
It was sort of fun as long as you were the only guy on the road..... car was a zx3 hatchback with no ABS and a MT.

I threw those out because I had my first child while the M3s were my winter tires. They still had 8/32" of tread depth and something like 3rd or 4th winter and I was sliding through intersections at 10kph out of control while even the all-season folks were looking at me wondering what my problem was. Once I backed out of the driveway in freezing rain conditions, was feathering the clutch at idle, and the rears just spun with the car sitting there.

I threw them out, angrily, and went the total opposite and got Hakka RSis for "family safety". Then discovered our winters aren't really cold/severe enough to get those working well, and the pendulum swings back and forth every time I have to choose. :) Thank goodness it's easier to choose summer tires.
 
I threw those out because I had my first child while the M3s were my winter tires. They still had 8/32" of tread depth and something like 3rd or 4th winter and I was sliding through intersections at 10kph out of control while even the all-season folks were looking at me wondering what my problem was. Once I backed out of the driveway in freezing rain conditions, was feathering the clutch at idle, and the rears just spun with the car sitting there.

I threw them out, angrily, and went the total opposite and got Hakka RSis for "family safety". Then discovered our winters aren't really cold/severe enough to get those working well, and the pendulum swings back and forth every time I have to choose. :) Thank goodness it's easier to choose summer tires.
I would suggest the Nokian WR G4 then. Granted, my experience with them are with a AWD cute-ute

But I had the Nokian WR G3 (asymmetric) on a lowered Passat wagon 6MT. Works fine for mild NJ winters and heading into VT for ski trips. Okay in deep snow but the lowered car was the limiting factor

Still available under Nokian’s Nordman line, as the Solstice

 
I threw those out because I had my first child while the M3s were my winter tires. They still had 8/32" of tread depth and something like 3rd or 4th winter and I was sliding through intersections at 10kph out of control while even the all-season folks were looking at me wondering what my problem was. Once I backed out of the driveway in freezing rain conditions, was feathering the clutch at idle, and the rears just spun with the car sitting there.

I threw them out, angrily, and went the total opposite and got Hakka RSis for "family safety". Then discovered our winters aren't really cold/severe enough to get those working well, and the pendulum swings back and forth every time I have to choose. :) Thank goodness it's easier to choose summer tires.
After 4 different attempts to give Nokian’s a chance, I am done after R2’s. It was IMO second class tire at best. Far inferior to VC7, WS90, or some older models of Michelin and Bridgestone.
 
Performance winter tires are the weakest in ice. Freezing rain is killer for most.
Studded may be a champ in such conditions.

Krzyś
 
I know you mentioned you don't have a job that forces you to drive, but if you can wait until the roads are passable, a performance winter tire will drive better. Really depends on your need. They certainly aren't amazing in the snow but they won't be nearly as squishy as a real winter tire. Pick your poison. I would go with X-Ice Snow if not.
 
Ended up selecting the Michelin X-Ice Snow based on a variety of factors.

While in the final selection process I was reminded in two completely separate interactions about my experience with Dunlop M3s. Reviewers and owners loved those things, at least for the first season. By some time in season 2 they were useless. The Michelin marketing machine says that the X-Ice Snow is specifically engineered to provide consistent performance even when aging and wearing down. Sounds good anyways. I saw a test somewhere that shaved X-Ice Snows down and confirmed good retained performance - couldn't simulate 5 years of aging the same way but hey it was something. One would be hard pressed to trust the marketing departments of any of the major vendors, but the fact that I encountered the same "longevity" reminder in completely unrelated encounters had me take notice.

No, I'm not saying that everyone with VC7s are having trouble in year 2, or that I know you will. :) It was a very close decision.

At any rate, getting a mount and road force balance this Friday, then installing on the car whenever the weather truly requires it. Hope I have a round set that's nice and vibration-free. I'll update the thread with my driving impressions after I have some experience on which to report.
 
Ended up selecting the Michelin X-Ice Snow based on a variety of factors.

While in the final selection process I was reminded in two completely separate interactions about my experience with Dunlop M3s. Reviewers and owners loved those things, at least for the first season. By some time in season 2 they were useless. The Michelin marketing machine says that the X-Ice Snow is specifically engineered to provide consistent performance even when aging and wearing down. Sounds good anyways. I saw a test somewhere that shaved X-Ice Snows down and confirmed good retained performance - couldn't simulate 5 years of aging the same way but hey it was something. One would be hard pressed to trust the marketing departments of any of the major vendors, but the fact that I encountered the same "longevity" reminder in completely unrelated encounters had me take notice.

No, I'm not saying that everyone with VC7s are having trouble in year 2, or that I know you will. :) It was a very close decision.

At any rate, getting a mount and road force balance this Friday, then installing on the car whenever the weather truly requires it. Hope I have a round set that's nice and vibration-free. I'll update the thread with my driving impressions after I have some experience on which to report.
Excellent choice! I have those on my SRT and am impressed.
 
Ended up selecting the Michelin X-Ice Snow based on a variety of factors.

While in the final selection process I was reminded in two completely separate interactions about my experience with Dunlop M3s. Reviewers and owners loved those things, at least for the first season. By some time in season 2 they were useless. The Michelin marketing machine says that the X-Ice Snow is specifically engineered to provide consistent performance even when aging and wearing down. Sounds good anyways. I saw a test somewhere that shaved X-Ice Snows down and confirmed good retained performance - couldn't simulate 5 years of aging the same way but hey it was something. One would be hard pressed to trust the marketing departments of any of the major vendors, but the fact that I encountered the same "longevity" reminder in completely unrelated encounters had me take notice.

No, I'm not saying that everyone with VC7s are having trouble in year 2, or that I know you will. :) It was a very close decision.

At any rate, getting a mount and road force balance this Friday, then installing on the car whenever the weather truly requires it. Hope I have a round set that's nice and vibration-free. I'll update the thread with my driving impressions after I have some experience on which to report.

This will be winter 5 for the VC7's on the 2020 elantra. (bought 11/3/2019)
Still performing excellent. I expect 2 more winters.(maybe 3) They are run from first major snowstorm usually beginning of december (+- 2 or 3 weeks) until mid-april.

Winter 2 on the xice snows with the 22 forester wilderness.
While quite competent they handle like reg bland standard all season.. (not a bad thing)

Difficult to compare on 2 different vehicles but when they came out the VC7 were amazing compared to the stock tires.. even outperforming them in wet and dry.

The xice snow are very good tires but less noticeably better then the OE tires.. which are yokohama g015's
The exception is on ice the xice snow are much better than the yokohamas.
 
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My F10 has not been kind to me this fall and I'm dealing with 4 moderately expensive and not-shocking-but-SERIOUSLY-ALL-AT-THE-SAME-TIME??!! repair issues.
The X-Ice Snows are on. It's been nothing but dry and around freezing, but they are extremely quiet and dry handling + braking is better than the R2s.

More comments as I have them!
 
Tyre Reviews tested VC7 against X-Ice Snow. Can't go wrong with either one.

X-Ice Snow was better in aquaplaning. Thats the only major difference between them. VC7 came ahead in a lot of tests, but only marginally.

I would get whichever is cheaper, unless you drive a lot of km, then Michelin should have better wear.
 
My F10 has not been kind to me this fall and I'm dealing with 4 moderately expensive and not-shocking-but-SERIOUSLY-ALL-AT-THE-SAME-TIME??!! repair issues.
The X-Ice Snows are on. It's been nothing but dry and around freezing, but they are extremely quiet and dry handling + braking is better than the R2s.

More comments as I have them!
It is really hard to find tire that is worse than R2 in dry or wet.
 
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