My BMW 335i F30 loves Redline 0w40

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I would add my agreement to the OP's finding on the 0-40 RL. I alternated between various weights of Motul, M1 and RL over a three year period. Some readers may recall I was having oil consumption problems with the aluminum LM4 5.3 in the '04 Rainier that came to us when my MIL passed. 800 miles to the quart. Stuck rings and a poorly designed EGR system seemed to be the causes in the end. Two passes with the RL and a change to an updated valve cover (embedded EGR system) and oil consumption has finally gone to 6,000 miles per quart. I am guessing that the high detergency of the RL did most of the work. But back to the 0-40 weight specifically. This motor also has the dreaded piston slap when cold. The 0-40 RL was the only one that solved that (admittedly likely more mental than actual) problem after going through all of the other weights (5-30, 5-40, 0-40's of the others, etc.). When the Motul Xcess 5-40 that I re-ran to check (it's a lot cheaper) runs its course the RL is going back in, hideous expense and all. And yes it even sounds smoother. hornets Anecdotal but there it is.
 
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Originally Posted By: kschachn
They do? Which ones? Just for track or street too? My BMW runs much cooler than my Sienna, it has a huge radiator and (apparently) better cooling capability.
Originally Posted By: Serge
Problem is with most european cars is the oil runs hot, very HOT. They do this on purpose for better fuel economy and better imissions. I own a 135i myself and track it a few times a year. After a few encounters with 280 degree F oil temps at track (even with 40wt Redline race oil) i knew i needed to do something about this. After some research, the stock oil thermostat on the n54/n55 motors is set at 235 degrees F. So, in the garbage went the stock thermostat and the 10 row oil cooler. Replaced them with a 180 degree F thermostat and a 48 row cooler. Now, during the hottest of summer and sprited driving i see 220 degrees F at the most. On track it stays under 240. Car is ran on a 25psi, 500whp tune on the street and a 20psi, 450whp tune for track. For street i use Redline 5w30 in fall/spring. Car is stored during winter. Summer i use 10w40. On track Redline 40wt. So if you are planning on keeping the car then a bigger oil cooler is a must.
Stock is perfectly fine if car is driven uber hard on road. Those cars are made for auto bahns where speeds of 120mph for extended period of time are normal. Track+tune is different story. This summer I was driving 525d F10 with 224hp 2.0l Twin turbo diesel (has two twin scroll turbos) between Sarajevo and Zenica in Bosnia, two cities with 45 mile stretch of German style HWY between them, at speed of 145mph, and oil temp. moved just slightly, barely noticeable.
 
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I have owned a few BMWs and all ran oil temps in between 230-250 on the street. 250 is pushing it for alot of oils. This why a good oil like Redline is needed here.
 
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Originally Posted By: Serge
I have owned a few BMWs and all ran oil temps in between 230-250 on the street. 250 is pushing it for alot of oils. This why a good oil like Redline is needed here.
Pushing it? I do not understand why it is pushing for any approved LL-01 oil?
 
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Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Serge
I have owned a few BMWs and all ran oil temps in between 230-250 on the street. 250 is pushing it for alot of oils. This why a good oil like Redline is needed here.
Pushing it? I do not understand why it is pushing for any approved LL-01 oil?
250 is near thermal breakdown.
 

OVERKILL

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Originally Posted By: Serge
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Serge
I have owned a few BMWs and all ran oil temps in between 230-250 on the street. 250 is pushing it for alot of oils. This why a good oil like Redline is needed here.
Pushing it? I do not understand why it is pushing for any approved LL-01 oil?
250 is near thermal breakdown.
Based on what? And my M5 never got near that hot. Thing had a hard time cracking 200 when driving the tar out of it. Different car though. Quote from ExxonMobil
Originally Posted By: Mobil
A long drive. Blistering summer days. Stop-and-go traffic. Under conditions like these, your engine will get hot. This heat can cause conventional motor oil to oxidize, thicken and leave deposits, which can affect your engine’s performance. Mobil 1 advanced synthetic motor oil provides outstanding high-temperature performance and is proven to protect at engine temperatures up to 500°F.
Yes, it is marketing, but 250 is nowhere near 500. You can also see slide 12 of this presentation: Mobil proof of performance presentation
Quote:
Oils of lower oxidative and thermal stability will cause greater deposit formation. As piston deposits increase, engine efficiency decreases. The test simulates high temperature piston deposit formation. The test oil is heated to 285°C and directed onto a rapidly spinning (2,500rpm) aluminum disc which is heated to 330°C. The test duration is 3 hours. At the end of test, the oil is assigned a cleanliness merit rating out of 100.
So the oil is heated to 545F and then poured onto a disc that is 626F and this is done for three hours.
 

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Thanks for all the helpful info guys. the falling coolant temp incident happenned with my ptevious car..Sonata in Saskatchewan. I have used German Castrol 0w40 and BMW 5w30 prior to this and Redline feels so much superior to those oils.I know its totally anecdotal and seat of the pants observation and may not represent actual oil performance..but I like how it makes the engine feel.And no..its not because its new oils vs old.I know how the engine feels when the dealer changes it and how it felt when I used GC 0w40 in between OLM dictated oil change.Even my friend was surprised and commented on the throttle response. I am waiting for the temps to drop to see how it copes with cold starts. I will be doing UOAs..atleast 3 and I will update this thread. BTW..I hear several warnings to yse zf fluid innstead of Redline D6..Are you suggesting adverse effects if I use Redline D6?
 
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rikstaker

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Originally Posted By: drtyler
While I think Redline products are good, if your transmission is the ZF 8 speed automatic, I would use the ZF recommended fluid here (Lifeguard 8). It has been tested and provides good results in that transmission. If it has the French GM transmission (not sure if these were used in the F30 cars, but they are in the E90 cars), then Redline fluid would be fine and recommended. Nice car, by the way. I'm sure it's a lot of fun to drive. Enjoy!
Yup love the car..brings a smile to my face everytime..I can only imagine how much more fun a catless downpipe and a tune would add..with power bumped up to 400 whp.. Is redline D6 really not recommended for zf8?
 
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rikstaker

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Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: rikstaker
Thanks for the input guys. i think you guys dont realize how cold it can get here. I remember once in Saskatchewan, on a -45 night, I got on the highway after warming up the engine and let the coolant temperature gauage climb up to 25%, on the highway and the frigid cold hitting the front of the engine made the guage drop to 0!!.. I took the off ramp and took the street.So yes..0w makes a difference up here
But it doesn't get that cold in SW Ontario. Maybe "with windchill" (which your engine doesn't feel) but I don't recall it being anywhere near that cold in quite a long time. In Edmonton or Winterpeg sure, but not in our area. Usually around -30C is the lowest we see. I'm a HUGE advocate of running a 0w-xx oil in the winter months but the reality is that there are very few days in the winter when it is actually bordering on necessary. BTW, regarding your temp gauge experience, I had similar fun with my 2001 M5. It had a hard time getting up to temp in the winter and would shed heat like crazy. This was reflected in oil temperature as well. I blame it at least in part on the huge mechanical clutch fan. My wife's Charger (the '06) which is my current winter ride only has an electric fan, and it comes up to temp like a champion, even when it is -30C. Comically, a few years ago we were driving our Expedition back from Nova Scotia and it was an honest -30C and colder. I stopped in at McDonalds to grab a coffee and as I'm sitting there I watch the temp gauge slowly creep down below the operational temp mark. Once back on the highway and under load, it went back to where it normally was. Was rather comical to observe.
I drive up to Saskatchewan occasionally.Infact my car is still plated there lol..Last year I drove from Toronto to Regina to Calgary to Chicago and back to Toronto. btw the drive from Saulte St Marie to Thunderbay is just epic. When I used to live there I used to plugin my block heater and an oil pan heater for extra protection and car would start like its summer lol.. Sucks that Toronto doesnt have plugin spots and I live in an apartment.Therefore I prefer 0wt oil for the occasional -25 -30. It did go -45 in Toronto 2 years ago. I remember coz that night we were watching a game of cricket lol and All my friends cars had to be jumpstarted..they probably used cheap dino oil at cheap [censored] quick lube places lol.My car started right up. Ahh..M5..My plan is to save up and buy an e60 M5 manual with low clicks for around 20k and turn it into a garage queen. The 335i would be my daily 😁
 
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Originally Posted By: rikstaker
Sucks that Toronto doesnt have plugin spots and I live in an apartment.
In that case, a 0w-XX definitely makes sense. As you're well aware, a landlord in Saskatchewan not providing plug ins would probably get lynched in January. wink
 
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Redline recommends D6 for the ZF 8 speed. It may be just fine. I just tend to err on the side of caution, as I know the transmissions are quite expensive to replace. The ZF fluid is expensive though ($20/liter). If Redline could show that they have tested the D6 long term in one of these transmissions, it may be worthwhile. Motul now specs their ATF VI (low viscosity, Dexron VI) for the ZF 6 speed and 8 speed transmissions, so these fluids with multiple specs may be suitable for the ZF.
Originally Posted By: rikstaker
Originally Posted By: drtyler
While I think Redline products are good, if your transmission is the ZF 8 speed automatic, I would use the ZF recommended fluid here (Lifeguard 8). It has been tested and provides good results in that transmission. If it has the French GM transmission (not sure if these were used in the F30 cars, but they are in the E90 cars), then Redline fluid would be fine and recommended. Nice car, by the way. I'm sure it's a lot of fun to drive. Enjoy!
Yup love the car..brings a smile to my face everytime..I can only imagine how much more fun a catless downpipe and a tune would add..with power bumped up to 400 whp.. Is redline D6 really not recommended for zf8?
 
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OVERKILL

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Originally Posted By: rikstaker
[It did go -45 in Toronto 2 years ago. I remember coz that night we were watching a game of cricket lol and All my friends cars had to be jumpstarted..they probably used cheap dino oil at cheap [censored] quick lube places lol.My car started right up.
Are you sure that wasn't a "with windchill" temperature? I'm about 60 minutes from Toronto and we generally get a harsher winter than the GTA does and I don't recall it ever hitting that cold ambient two years ago. It was -35C fat one point there and below -45C with the windchill that day however. shrug Regarding the drive, yeah, my sister drove to Edmonton (and back) with her '03 330i and said it was an amazing drive. Northern Ontario is quite the epic.
 

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Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: rikstaker
[It did go -45 in Toronto 2 years ago. I remember coz that night we were watching a game of cricket lol and All my friends cars had to be jumpstarted..they probably used cheap dino oil at cheap [censored] quick lube places lol.My car started right up.
Are you sure that wasn't a "with windchill" temperature? I'm about 60 minutes from Toronto and we generally get a harsher winter than the GTA does and I don't recall it ever hitting that cold ambient two years ago. It was -35C fat one point there and below -45C with the windchill that day however. shrug Regarding the drive, yeah, my sister drove to Edmonton (and back) with her '03 330i and said it was an amazing drive. Northern Ontario is quite the epic.
It was -45 windchill I think.
 

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Yeah, that makes more sense. Luckily, mechanical devices don't see windchill. HOWEVER, that -35C was below the cranking limit for a 5w-xx and right on the limit for pumpability. Put some age on the oil and pumpability can be an issue. But since we were below the cranking limit? Yes, that can definitely prevent a vehicle from starting.
 

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Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Yeah, that makes more sense. Luckily, mechanical devices don't see windchill. HOWEVER, that -35C was below the cranking limit for a 5w-xx and right on the limit for pumpability. Put some age on the oil and pumpability can be an issue. But since we were below the cranking limit? Yes, that can definitely prevent a vehicle from starting.
BMW stupidly recommends 24k km OCIs in my car. You might have seen this- Exact same car.. https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4181663/Re:_BMW_5W30_--_17K_Miles_--_1 Pourpoint of BMWs 5w30 oil is -36, I reckon its a group 3 at best, the dealerships still havent recieved the GTL sourced shell oils, which I reckon would have better cold specs. The hard starts were more than just noticeable, also I did an oil change midwinter and the starts were better with GC 0w40.
 
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Originally Posted By: drtyler
Redline recommends D6 for the ZF 8 speed. It may be just fine. I just tend to err on the side of caution, as I know the transmissions are quite expensive to replace. The ZF fluid is expensive though ($20/liter). If Redline could show that they have tested the D6 long term in one of these transmissions, it may be worthwhile. Motul now specs their ATF VI (low viscosity, Dexron VI) for the ZF 6 speed and 8 speed transmissions, so these fluids with multiple specs may be suitable for the ZF.
Originally Posted By: rikstaker
Originally Posted By: drtyler
While I think Redline products are good, if your transmission is the ZF 8 speed automatic, I would use the ZF recommended fluid here (Lifeguard 8). It has been tested and provides good results in that transmission. If it has the French GM transmission (not sure if these were used in the F30 cars, but they are in the E90 cars), then Redline fluid would be fine and recommended. Nice car, by the way. I'm sure it's a lot of fun to drive. Enjoy!
Yup love the car..brings a smile to my face everytime..I can only imagine how much more fun a catless downpipe and a tune would add..with power bumped up to 400 whp.. Is redline D6 really not recommended for zf8?
Unless you do flush, you cannot get rid of all old fluid, so that is why using ZF 8 is important.
 
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Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Serge
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Serge
I have owned a few BMWs and all ran oil temps in between 230-250 on the street. 250 is pushing it for alot of oils. This why a good oil like Redline is needed here.
Pushing it? I do not understand why it is pushing for any approved LL-01 oil?
250 is near thermal breakdown.
Based on what? And my M5 never got near that hot. Thing had a hard time cracking 200 when driving the tar out of it. Different car though. Quote from ExxonMobil
Originally Posted By: Mobil
A long drive. Blistering summer days. Stop-and-go traffic. Under conditions like these, your engine will get hot. This heat can cause conventional motor oil to oxidize, thicken and leave deposits, which can affect your engine’s performance. Mobil 1 advanced synthetic motor oil provides outstanding high-temperature performance and is proven to protect at engine temperatures up to 500°F.
Yes, it is marketing, but 250 is nowhere near 500. You can also see slide 12 of this presentation: Mobil proof of performance presentation
Quote:
Oils of lower oxidative and thermal stability will cause greater deposit formation. As piston deposits increase, engine efficiency decreases. The test simulates high temperature piston deposit formation. The test oil is heated to 285°C and directed onto a rapidly spinning (2,500rpm) aluminum disc which is heated to 330°C. The test duration is 3 hours. At the end of test, the oil is assigned a cleanliness merit rating out of 100.
So the oil is heated to 545F and then poured onto a disc that is 626F and this is done for three hours.
+1 Cant generalize... my M3 barely breaks 180-190* on the street (takes a while to get there) and maybe 220-240 on the track running 5W-40.
 
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rikstaker

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Originally Posted By: bmwpowere36m3
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Serge
Originally Posted By: edyvw
[quote=Serge]I have owned a few BMWs and all ran oil temps in between 230-250 on the street. 250 is pushing it for alot of oils. This why a good oil like Redline is needed here.
Pushing it? I do not understand why it is pushing for any approved LL-01 oil?
250 is near thermal breakdown.
Based on what? And my M5 never got near that hot. Thing had a hard time cracking 200 when driving the tar out of it. Different car though. Quote from ExxonMobil
Originally Posted By: Mobil
A long drive. Blistering summer days. Stop-and-go traffic. Under conditions like these, your engine will get hot. This heat can cause conventional motor oil to oxidize, thicken and leave deposits, which can affect your engine’s performance. Mobil 1 advanced synthetic motor oil provides outstanding high-temperature performance and is proven to protect at engine temperatures up to 500°F.
Yes, it is marketing, but 250 is nowhere near 500. You can also see slide 12 of this presentation: Mobil proof of performance presentation
Quote:
Oils of lower oxidative and thermal stability will cause greater deposit formation. As piston deposits increase, engine efficiency decreases. The test simulates high temperature piston deposit formation. The test oil is heated to 285°C and directed onto a rapidly spinning (2,500rpm) aluminum disc which is heated to 330°C. The test duration is 3 hours. At the end of test, the oil is assigned a cleanliness merit rating out of 100.
So the oil is heated to 545F and then poured onto a disc that is 626F and this is done for three hours. +1 Cant generalize... my M3 barely breaks 180-190* on the street (takes a while to get there) and maybe 220-240 on the track running 5W-40.
probably coz yours is NA?these small turbos can get really hot.my oil temps on highspeed driving in summer hover around 120c thats almost 250 f.
 
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Originally Posted By: rikstaker
Originally Posted By: bmwpowere36m3
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Serge
[quote=edyvw][quote=Serge]I have owned a few BMWs and all ran oil temps in between 230-250 on the street. 250 is pushing it for alot of oils. This why a good oil like Redline is needed here.
Pushing it? I do not understand why it is pushing for any approved LL-01 oil?
250 is near thermal breakdown.
Based on what? And my M5 never got near that hot. Thing had a hard time cracking 200 when driving the tar out of it. Different car though. Quote from ExxonMobil
Originally Posted By: Mobil
A long drive. Blistering summer days. Stop-and-go traffic. Under conditions like these, your engine will get hot. This heat can cause conventional motor oil to oxidize, thicken and leave deposits, which can affect your engine’s performance. Mobil 1 advanced synthetic motor oil provides outstanding high-temperature performance and is proven to protect at engine temperatures up to 500°F.
Yes, it is marketing, but 250 is nowhere near 500. You can also see slide 12 of this presentation: Mobil proof of performance presentation
Quote:
Oils of lower oxidative and thermal stability will cause greater deposit formation. As piston deposits increase, engine efficiency decreases. The test simulates high temperature piston deposit formation. The test oil is heated to 285°C and directed onto a rapidly spinning (2,500rpm) aluminum disc which is heated to 330°C. The test duration is 3 hours. At the end of test, the oil is assigned a cleanliness merit rating out of 100.
So the oil is heated to 545F and then poured onto a disc that is 626F and this is done for three hours. +1 Cant generalize... my M3 barely breaks 180-190* on the street (takes a while to get there) and maybe 220-240 on the track running 5W-40.
Quote:
probably coz yours is NA?these small turbos can get really hot.my oil temps on highspeed driving in summer hover around 120c thats almost 250 f.
However, 250f is nothing for synthetic oil that is LL-01 approved.
 
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