MOTUL HYBRID 0W-8 VOA or UOA?

[lowon]

As much worries with warranty issues as he has dealer service is the best bet. Dealer just gonna be using 16 or 20 grade anyway is my guess.

Incorrect, the dealer actually has 0w-8 in stock so they'll use what is specified by Toyota. Dealers aren't going to risk dealer status by doing random crap, they're an extension of the OEM so they have to do things by the book.

 

[Kalle.J]

THE BOOK

 

[lowon]

Thats what happens here (sometimes) and some customers will get mad that they don't use 0W8

No, that's what happens when you have forum members jump onto threads and not understand the context of the thread. I guess that's what happens when it's been awhile since someone has had a new car.

 

[lowon]

THE BOOK

View attachment 244020

You do realize it doesn't help with warranty right?

 

[Kalle.J]

You do realize it doesn't help with warranty right?

That is THE BOOK. You are talking about the American book. Completely different from the book.

 

[lowon]

That is THE BOOK. You are talking about the American book. Completely different from the book.

You do realize warranty is region specific right?

 

[lowon]

No they cannot “legally void warranty. You have no evidence to support that claim. It simply isn’t true.

Really so if an OE specifies one thing and you go off on your own and do random crap, you think they have no grounds to void a warranty?

 

[lowon]

No they do not. If you use a grade that causes damage then yes. No oil with a higher grade will cause damage, not from the grade alone. HT/HS protects, not the other way around.

But if you cannot understand that or are still fearful then use what the manual recommends.

I realize that a higher hths offers more protection, there's a reason why I use 5w40 instead of 0w30 after the warranty period on my m2 that I track. But to avoid warranty issues I want to keep things done by the book for my brand Lexus.

You do realize the only approved grade in NA is jaso glv-1 right? So 0w-8 or 0w-16

 

[Kalle.J]

Really so if an OE specifies one thing and you go off on your own and do random crap, you think they have no grounds to void a warranty?

Again TOYOTA US not OE.

 

[Kalle.J]

You do realize the only approved grade in NA is jaso glv-1 right? So 0w-8 or 0w-16

Not even 0W-16.
GLV-1 is 0W8 to 12 afaik.

 

[lowon]

There’s a lot of misinformation here. First off warranty disputes go through arbitration at no cost to the customer. The dealer will have to convince arbitrators that your engine failure was oil related(which they won’t be able to). Oil related failures are beyond extremely rare. Neglect is the most common customer related cause of failure(simple pictures of clean engine internals will prove oil changes were done). Bad design is by far the leading failure of engines under warranty. Another misconception is a uoa on a catastrophic failure will show anything about the oil. Having been part of warranty disputes in the past, arbitrators rarely side with the dealer even when right. We lost to a customer who destroyed a transmission in a s10 blazer towing way over the limit.

I'm not sure what dealers you've been doing it with. But for me whenever there's a major issue you don't deal with the dealer, you deal directly with corporate, and they want ever bit of service record you have. That's how they find out exactly what oil you've been using.

With super high end companies like bmw, they even scan the dme for tunes, abuse (over revs etc), and second an engineer out for inspection before they warranty anything. So final rulings are directly from corporate, if you disagree the next step is litigation. You're not dealing with a dealership for big issues...

 

[Glenda W.]

Really so if an OE specifies one thing and you go off on your own and do random crap, you think they have no grounds to void a warranty?

In order to deny a warranty the dealer/oe has to prove the “random crap” caused the failure. In the case of oil it’s near impossible.

 

[lowon]

Meh at the end of ths day I suspected an oil forum would be more useful seeing that members are supposed to be oil enthusiasts. Instead it's typically forum behavior where people don't understand the context of the thread and comment whatever they want based on personal feelings.


As I have stated before I'm well aware 0w-8 might not be key to longevity but I have no choice for warranty purposes. I also do not dispute the logic of being able to run thicker oils used in other regions on the same motor, but I can't do so until warranty is done. Hence why I'm asking about 0w-8 oils.

Since this thread has devolved into arguments about my warranty rather than my original question I'm out, it's rather exhausting dealing with circular arguments rather than having fruitful discussions.

 

[Glenda W.]

I'm not sure what dealers you've been doing it with. But for me whenever there's a major issue you don't deal with the dealer, you deal directly with corporate, and they want ever bit of service record you have. That's how they find out exactly what oil you've been using.

With super high end companies like bmw, they even scan the dme for tunes, abuse (over revs etc), and second an engineer out for inspection before they warranty anything. So final rulings are directly from corporate, if you disagree the next step is litigation. You're not dealing with a dealership for big issues...

Incorrect. If you disagree you have the right to arbitration. Read the warranty book. I’ve been to a handful representing the dealer(GM).

 

[Glenda W.]

Meh at the end of ths day I suspected an oil forum would be more useful seeing that members are supposed to be oil enthusiasts. Instead it's typically forum behavior where people don't understand the context of the thread and comment whatever they want based on personal feelings.


As I have stated before I'm well aware 0w-8 might not be key to longevity but I have no choice for warranty purposes. I also do not dispute the logic of being able to run thicker oils used in other regions on the same motor, but I can't do so until warranty is done. Hence why I'm asking about 0w-8 oils.

Since this thread has devolved into arguments about my warranty rather than my original question I'm out, it's rather exhausting dealing with circular arguments rather than having fruitful discussions.

Your spreading misinformation about warranty denial. Your going to get called out on it here.

 

[Kalle.J]

https://www.lexus.co.th/content/dam...-Thailand-UX-300h-Periodic-Maintenance-en.pdf

Thai service schedule for 300h.
0W20 10.000km interval, roughly 6200miles OCI.
Since you pertained to OCI of different viscosities earlier.

 

[lowon]

Incorrect. If you disagree you have the right to arbitration. Read the warranty book. I’ve been to a handful representing the dealer(GM).

You do realize arbitration works differently oe to OE right? For brands that deal directly with corporate that sends down engineers for inspections the chance they changed their mind on a ruling is slim to none. What comes after that? Litigation, and the chance you win against a billion dollar corporation is slim to none. There are so many tactics big entities have to win legal disputes.

For instance look at Toyota and their gr86, they aren't shy to deny warranty even on issues that is clearly their fault like rtv clogging the pickup. Customers have escalated the case but still they've been told to kick rocks. Then you have to sue, and when you're in court you're arguing against lawyers who's job it is to make you look guilty. For issues as blatant as rtv id assume you'd easily win. For issues like oil now you have to prove your higher weight oil didn't have any impact on failure, but then you'd argue without knowledge of bearing tolerance, oil pump design etc. that the oil was able to flow and perform under the most rigorous cases and still be able to flow through all the passages without issue. You'd also have to argue that dme's cooling logic was programmed to account for a thicker oil and properly manage its cooling or heating fornproper operation.

You also don't know if there's variation between engine tunes and internal part numbers region to region despite the cars having the same engine name so using cross regional data isn't a slam dunk win. And any slip up in your defense will result in a loss. Engineers could easily say thar they have data showing 0w-8 performs more optimally in cold weather like Canada. Then what do you say to counter? They could also say for the retuned stop start logic 0w-8 is better for quicker flow of the oil during cold weather, that's why they recommend 0w-8 instead of 0w-16 as in previous engines.

There's so many opportunities to get screwed when you come to this.

 

[Kalle.J]

For instance look at Toyota and their gr86, they aren't shy to deny warranty even on issues that is clearly their fault like rtv clogging the pickup. Customers have escalated the case but still they've been told to kick rocks. Then you have to sue, and when you're in court you're arguing against lawyers who's job it is to make you look guilty. For issues as blatant as rtv id assume you'd easily win. For issues like oil now you have to prove your higher weight oil didn't have any impact on failure, but then you'd argue without knowledge of bearing tolerance, oil pump design etc. that the oil was able to flow and perform under the most rigorous cases and still be able to flow through all the passages without issue. You'd also have to argue that dme's cooling logic was programmed to account for a thicker oil and properly manage its cooling or heating fornproper operation.

There's so many opportunities to get screwed when you come to this.

Litterally throw this at them and go home, done deal. It will NEVER come to this anyway, total hypothetical case.

 

[Kalle.J]

You'd also have to argue that dme's cooling logic was programmed to account for a thicker oil and properly manage its cooling or heating fornproper operation.

You also don't know if there's variation between engine tunes and internal part numbers region to region despite the cars having the same engine name so using cross regional data isn't a slam dunk win. And any slip up in your defense will result in a loss. Engineers could easily say thar they have data showing 0w-8 performs more optimally in cold weather like Canada. Then what do you say to counter? They could also say for the retuned stop start logic 0w-8 is better for quicker flow of the oil during cold weather, that's why they recommend 0w-8 instead of 0w-16 as in previous engines.

 

[Glenda W.]

You do realize arbitration works differently oe to OE right? For brands that deal directly with corporate that sends down engineers for inspections the chance they changed their mind on a ruling is slim to none. What comes after that? Litigation, and the chance you win against a billion dollar corporation is slim to none. There are so many tactics big entities have to win legal disputes.

For instance look at Toyota and their gr86, they aren't shy to deny warranty even on issues that is clearly their fault like rtv clogging the pickup. Customers have escalated the case but still they've been told to kick rocks. Then you have to sue, and when you're in court you're arguing against lawyers who's job it is to make you look guilty. For issues as blatant as rtv id assume you'd easily win. For issues like oil now you have to prove your higher weight oil didn't have any impact on failure, but then you'd argue without knowledge of bearing tolerance, oil pump design etc. that the oil was able to flow and perform under the most rigorous cases and still be able to flow through all the passages without issue. You'd also have to argue that dme's cooling logic was programmed to account for a thicker oil and properly manage its cooling or heating fornproper operation.

There's so many opportunities to get screwed when you come to this.

Incorrect. It’s actually the state that determines the consumers right. The whole point of your right to arbitration is because the legal system knows the “oe” can out spend the consumer. It’s to help the consumer. Certain states are even more consumer friendly like California. In fact the “oe” cannot fight the ruling of the arbitrators but the consumer can. Again I’ve been involved with the process. It usually includes the tech, service manager or foreman and the oe regional warranty rep. Dealers/oe rarely win and will avoid arbitration if possible.