I'd rather have a 4R70W than a 4T65E, Just pull the side cover off a 4T65E & you'll agree 
Most reliable old man car: Grand Marquis or Buick Lucerne?
- Thread starter Elkins45
- Start date
I have a 2001 Buick with the 3800 series. Best "large" sedan I've ever owned. Also had a Crown Vic and Marquis for years, and they are also reliable.
What is sad actually is that these "old man" cars are the last of their breed. They have a following for a reason. Sure, a Toyota is also a candidate... but....it's not in the same category as these large sedans. 3800 is a great engine and (like the Ford) it's the small things that usually cause issues. (Coolant elbows, Some control modules etc..)
I'd choose either vehicle if I was in the market.
What is sad actually is that these "old man" cars are the last of their breed. They have a following for a reason. Sure, a Toyota is also a candidate... but....it's not in the same category as these large sedans. 3800 is a great engine and (like the Ford) it's the small things that usually cause issues. (Coolant elbows, Some control modules etc..)
I'd choose either vehicle if I was in the market.
I know I'm "off topic" but I've been reading threads and comments regarding air springs in cars.
In brief, nobody expects them to last 80K and everybody anticipates a conversion to conventional.
The manufacturers discontinuing parts seems expected.
There are 2 bagged cars in my circle. Both leak down overnight. No way, Jose'.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Them-thar pesky details have gone an’ done it again …
I put coil assisted rear shocks in my son's Buick to replace the busted air ride system. Not one complaint about how it drives now.
Yup... they make a nice retrofit kit for these cars. Not expensive.
Dude, seriously......with just the slightest research on that same iSeeCars website you can easily find this report from 2013
https://www.iseecars.com/longest-lasting-cars-study#v=2013
"The vehicles analyzed for this study were 30 million used cars listed on iSeeCars.com during Jan. 1, 2013 through Dec. 31, 2013, with model years from 1981 to 2010, and those with more than 200,000 miles on the odometer. For each vehicle model, the number of 200,000-mile cars was calculated as a percentage of the total number of vehicles listed for the model. That number was then used to rank each model."
Now I am sure between 1981 and 2010, they sold 3800's and Panthers. But for some reason, I just don't see them on the list...LMAO
However, I do see that a Toyota Avalon outlasts a Ford F-150. And I kind of doubt you're going to tell me a Panther will outlast an F-150.
But if you do have any sort of studies or reports that show how great it was, please post it.
So dude seriously........they were good cars, but these studies show they were not the BEST cars
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see the above post and link.......
Dude, seriously......with just the slightest research on that same iSeeCars website you can easily find this report from 2013
https://www.iseecars.com/longest-lasting-cars-study#v=2013
"The vehicles analyzed for this study were 30 million used cars listed on iSeeCars.com during Jan. 1, 2013 through Dec. 31, 2013, with model years from 1981 to 2010, and those with more than 200,000 miles on the odometer. For each vehicle model, the number of 200,000-mile cars was calculated as a percentage of the total number of vehicles listed for the model. That number was then used to rank each model."
Now I am sure between 1981 and 2010, they sold 3800's and Panthers. But for some reason, I just don't see them on the list...LMAO
However, I do see that a Toyota Avalon outlasts a Ford F-150. And I kind of doubt you're going to tell me a Panther will outlast an F-150.
But if you do have any sort of studies or reports that show how great it was, please post it.
So dude seriously........they were good cars, but these studies show they were not the BEST cars
You believe these studies? How can a Suburban be more reliable than a Tahoe....They're built on the same assembly line.
I guess a study of 30 million cars isn't enough of a sample?
How can a Big Mac be better than a plain old cheeseburger?? They are built on the same assembly line
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3783-KC1
Site Donor 2024
My guesses:
Domestic: Any early 2000s Buick Lesabre would probably do.
Foreign: A pre-facelift (96-98) 1G RL.
Both ride like a Buick and both are kind of hard to kill.
Domestic: Any early 2000s Buick Lesabre would probably do.
Foreign: A pre-facelift (96-98) 1G RL.
Both ride like a Buick and both are kind of hard to kill.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
So I'm supposed to go looking for something completely different from what you linked?
What you linked didn't support what you stated, full-stop, because it didn't even capture the years the vehicles were being manufactured.
That being said, this is not the definition of a robust longevity study:
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Yup, and don't forget the Town Car, Grand Marquis and Crown Vic are three separate cars in these sorts of "analysis" too, lol. Also, vehicles whose sales volume is dominated by, and spend most of their lives in fleets becomes a representative problem, as they may never make it onto this specific used car website, which differs considerably from whatever Grandma Gertrude buys.
ls1mike
$50 Site Donor 2024
I have always questioned studies like that. 2 identical cars. One is more reliable than the other. I have seen that at Consumers Report, J.D. Powers and various other data sites. I don't know how they come up with different results for the same vehicle.
The methodology used in that study doesn’t really give me much confidence in their results, mostly because it misses any car that is driven until it wears out without being resold.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Yep, or just sent to auction or the wreckers, or crashed, then sent to the wreckers...etc. Even looking at LEO vehicles, the miles accrued doesn't even remotely reflect the number of hours on the engine for example, due to the amount of idle time.
The same site linked references vehicles being driven on average, 17,000 miles per year, so we are looking at ~12 year old vehicles (they reference 11.8 years as the average age) for the vehicles included in this "study".
The average New York taxi cab racks up 70,000 (hard) miles per year according to this report, and so in less than 3 years, a Crown Vic would be over 200,000 miles. Of course that story is from 2016, so 5 years after the last Panther was produced, so their share would already have been diminishing, as the average taxi Crown Vic would be over 350,000 miles at that point.
Essentially the claim being made here is that despite the Crown Vic and Town Car being the staples of Limo, LEO and taxi service for decades, surviving untold amounts of abuse, we are required to turn a blind eye to those facts, because some automotive classifieds site has more of other brands and models of vehicles listed for sale with over 200,000 miles on them, used predominantly for personal conveyance (reflected in the 17,000 miles per year average).
It's a castle made of boogers being sold as the Taj Mahal.
I guess a study of 30 million cars isn't enough of a sample?
How can a Big Mac be better than a plain old cheeseburger?? They are built on the same assembly line
Not sure that's the correct analogy to use......These SUV's use the exact same components for the most part, The Suburban's longer wheelbase does require different rear doors, A few pieces of interior trim, Front carpet section, Headliner....Longer fuel & Brake line assemblies, & Driveshaft.
I didn't notice until now that it has the GMC Yukon XL below the the Chevy Tahoe which IS a Suburban with different emblems, Grille & Headlights.
Putting a Big Mac in a different packaging doesn't make it a better burger.....See, I can make food references as well
Inherited from my father after he passed away at 93 in 2019. His baby at 48,000 miles back then. Today at 63,000 miles and the family long distance highway cruiser. All work has been done regarding the minor 3800 Series II issues starting from coolant elbows, to intake gaskets, to intake this past summer by me. Great mpg on the highway at around 32 mpg. quiet, smooth riding, handles well after strut change, and comfortable. I am always looking to add to the stable from pre-75 or 2000-10. The 00-10 range would be Buick Park Avenue or Grand Marquis and I can find both.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
I like green - do you like blue or red better ?
I like 72° days - you like 32° or 92° better ?
I like 72° days - you like 32° or 92° better ?
