I was passing stuck AWD SUVs with mine on Friday ... It's great in the snow
First car for son: 3800 Buick vs Crown Vic vs Camry 2.2L....need advice
- Thread starter Chris B.
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I was passing stuck AWD SUVs with mine on Friday ... It's great in the snow
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Sure you did!
In the midst of a wintery mix storm, we passed a Crown Victoria in the ditch in our fwd Taurus. Cops I have talked to locally discussed how much trouble they had with the Crown Victoria in the snow and how much better the fwd Taurus was with snow. Our last rwd daily driver was a G body Cutlass supreme because it took an hour to get in out of the driveway vs. our other car a fwd Celebrity took a minute. RWD by its nature is inferior to fwd and AWD. Facts are facts.
Getting moving from a stop is usually easier with front wheel drive because of the weight over the front tires but sometimes making corners is easier with rear wheel drive when you can drift instead of plow forward into the ditch.
I started driving on the road in an 83 g body grand Prix when I was 16 and have owned a Cutlass the last 24 years. I moved up to a b body Caprice for winter beaters and they were much better in the snow because of the weight and longer wheelbase.
I much prefer 4 wheel drive or all wheel drive for heavy snow than either of those though.
I have to wonder--the Vics that were for police, they usually got deeper rear gearing, and might not have the best of snow tires? I mean, they probably had to have a snow tire rated for 100mph or whatever. Not sure how they balance high speed with snow traction. Anyhow, point is, a lower power FWD Taurus might have the edge over a RWD Panther? but that might change on a civilian Vic with tall gears. Albeit a cruiser probably has more junk in the trunk for ballast over the wheels. A whole lot of variables to unpack there.... that really don't matter as both are basically out of departments now.
I still prefer FWD over RWD in the snow, but I really liked my part time 4WD truck in snow. Way too easy to get in over my head in RWD, but in 4WD I don't think I met something it couldn't handle... I'm sure I could have, I just didn't. Extra ground clearance for the win (gotten many a FWD stuck going uphill when snow packed under it).
I still prefer FWD over RWD in the snow, but I really liked my part time 4WD truck in snow. Way too easy to get in over my head in RWD, but in 4WD I don't think I met something it couldn't handle... I'm sure I could have, I just didn't. Extra ground clearance for the win (gotten many a FWD stuck going uphill when snow packed under it).
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I always found FWD easier to turn as well because in the event of sliding you can apply the throttle which will help to work the vehicle in the direction that you're turned. How do you do that with rear wheel drive It just drives you further until you hit something. My aunt and her husband have both a rwd 15 F150 and Cadillac Fleetwood and she will openly admit both are useless in the snow considering how many times she has gotten stuck. My cousin's 300C she had to get rid of because when she moved away from Oklahoma she couldn't handle the snow. The same aunt is earlier had tons of problems with her Grand Marquis getting stuck and no it didn't have cop tires. I can go through the examples of trying to drive four-wheel drive vehicles in rear wheel drive and they wouldn't budge on roads front wheel drive did just fine on. 86 Cherokee XJ, an '80s suburban, 87 S10, the list goes on and on rear wheel drive is inferior in snow bottom line. To say anything else is to lie.
The camry is my pick, IMO.
The 2.2L is easy to maintain, easy to change oil, the oil filter is accessible from the top and you can oversize it easy with 3600 oil filter.
The trans fluid is easy to change also.
Only 4 spark plugs.
Now, unfortunately, the price has gone up.
I know some people say it is too expensive but I have helped a few people to find cars for their kids.
Before shutdown, that camry will be around $2000.
Now for $2000, you get something without a running engine.
There are always exception but it is getting difficult to find.
The 2.2L is easy to maintain, easy to change oil, the oil filter is accessible from the top and you can oversize it easy with 3600 oil filter.
The trans fluid is easy to change also.
Only 4 spark plugs.
Now, unfortunately, the price has gone up.
I know some people say it is too expensive but I have helped a few people to find cars for their kids.
Before shutdown, that camry will be around $2000.
Now for $2000, you get something without a running engine.
There are always exception but it is getting difficult to find.
Ain't that the truth. I know there are cars out there but anything that runs and drives for less than $5k is something that is not listed for very long. And these older cars have gotten more valuable not just due to lack of them but because the latest & greatest cars are getting that much harder & more costly to repair. The older ones that are more easy to DIY get more valuable as a result. JMHO.
Is a honda accord or Pontiac toyota twin an option? Unless you can find a creampuff grand marquis Crown Vics haven't been made in quite a while so youd be looking at a clapped out ex cop car or taxi. From experience check out your local retirement home. Many put their cars up for sale and some are in immaculate condition with low miles. It's rare but occasionally a dealership will get a gem thats almost too hard to believe. When I sold cars for a Lexus Dealership in 2016 I had a lady come in with an 8 year old es350 with 8,000 actuall miles on it. She drove to the store, church on Sunday, and knitting class all 3-5 miles from her house. The back seat hadn't been used ever.
SammyChevelleTypeS3
$50 site donor 2023
When it comes to "used" I would have to lean towards Toyota every time unless something is obviously wrong with it.
What do you mean a rear wheel drive just drives you further? It kicks the back end out when you hit the gas while turning and then you turn into the skid. Front wheel drive is the one that might not turn if you mash the throttle while trying to turn in really slippery conditions. You definitely have to be a good driver to do well with rear wheel drive. I had an 88 grand Marquis and it wasn't as good as the Caprice in snow but it wasn't bad. Better ground clearance meant it could get through deeper snow than the neon my girlfriend has at the time.
All wheel drive gives you a false sense of security. It's very easy for someone with AWD and all season tires to outdrive both their car's capability and their own capability. I know that the limits are of my car, I drive it accordingly and get to work and home without issue.
RWD turns better than FWD because the front tires aren't overloaded. You can apply throttle and still turn without breaking traction and having it understeer. Sure, you can floor it and cause it to oversteer and do crazy stuff, but the fronts aren't using all of their traction to either move the car or turn the car.
I've had 2.73 rear gearing and 3.55 rear gearing in my 2001 Marquis and haven't noticed too much of a difference. It seems the 3.55 spin easier but don't spin as fast when traction breaks so its' a bit more controllable.
But FWD and RWD have both treated me perfectly fine. I've never had to add weight to the front of a FWD for traction, though.
RWD turns better than FWD because the front tires aren't overloaded. You can apply throttle and still turn without breaking traction and having it understeer. Sure, you can floor it and cause it to oversteer and do crazy stuff, but the fronts aren't using all of their traction to either move the car or turn the car.
I've had 2.73 rear gearing and 3.55 rear gearing in my 2001 Marquis and haven't noticed too much of a difference. It seems the 3.55 spin easier but don't spin as fast when traction breaks so its' a bit more controllable.
But FWD and RWD have both treated me perfectly fine. I've never had to add weight to the front of a FWD for traction, though.
Hello everyone! So I finally got some time to search for another vehicle option for my son. I found this 2003 Camry XLE V6 that is a one owner older lady that garage kept it and has all the maintenance records that carfax confirms. She sold it to this dealer. They were asking $9900 yesterday and dropped it to $8900 today. I'm seeing a max blue book used car value of just under $5700 in the excellent condition it is. What do you guys think and what should I offer? I have cash:
https://www.denvermotors.co/details/used-2003-toyota-camry/110559476
https://www.denvermotors.co/details/used-2003-toyota-camry/110559476
Having a first car at 16 that needs repairs from time to time can be a good thing.
Toyotas 4-bangers are more straightforward than GMs. They're also more straightforward than Toyota V6 Camrys(one particular motor mount is hell on the 1MZ FE V6, not applicable to 2003).
Toyota cooling systems are an easy swap of the rad. Battery tray is always on the driver side. Belts on the passenger side. Alternator accessible from up top on passenger side.
Toyota cooling systems are an easy swap of the rad. Battery tray is always on the driver side. Belts on the passenger side. Alternator accessible from up top on passenger side.
Well, most those cars that could be junked are mostly already junked. Thus, they have become nostalgia objects.
You can count on AC being alive in an old Toyota over any American car.
I mean, the other practical option is minivan or a very carefully vetted Ranger.
Check for oil leaks around the timing cover on the 2003 Camry XLE V6 . Also check head gasket and coolant needs to be replaced. Also check the VTC oil cooler hose and make sure its metal.
Blinging out a tiring, American pigmobile doesn't fit the OP's, or his son's, economics one bit.
And don't get me wrong, I too love the Crown Vics and MGMs.