Most reliable old man car: Grand Marquis or Buick Lucerne?

[carviewsonic]

My ‘04 Park Ave, photos taken this past spring. Love the metallic blue color. Bought from an estate sale 8 years ago with only 24,000 km’s on it. We use it for an occasional highway trip and really enjoy the soft quiet ride.

We had a diamond white ‘03 Park Ave as our everyday family car until my daughter totalled it at approx 350,000 km’s. Was very reliable, just routine maintenance in the nearly 10 years we had it.

Had to own another one, took over a year to find one with really low mileage.

 

[blueglide88]

Having owned a 3800 Buick Lesabre, a Grand Marquis, and a Toyota Avalon, I think I'm in a better position than most to comment on some of these posts.

First to address a few posts suggesting the Avalon is not in the same league as a 3800 or Panther I give you this link

The Longest-Lasting Cars, Trucks and SUVs To Reach 250,000 Miles and Beyond - iSeeCars.com

The average vehicle has just an 11.8 percent chance of lasting 250,000 miles, but the latest iSeeCars.com study identified the 23 longest-lasting models...

www.iseecars.com

Funny, I don't see either the 3800 or Panther on the list LMAO

Second, I'd rate the 3800 higher than the 4.6 Ford because of the Ford's plastic intake manifold issues. I replaced mine twice in 80k. It's a common issue that is very well known and can't be overlooked when we are talking reliability.

Third, I'd rate the chassis of the Ford the best of the three. Body on frame is tougher than nails. I drove my GM very HARD. It also has a trunk that's huge compared to the others.

Last, I'd rate the ride of both the Lesabre and GM about equally, but I'd give the edge to the Panther's seats as the most comfy. Overall the Panther is the most comfy ride, the Buick second, the Avalon a distant third.

So far I have had zero problems with the Avalon, but I cannot compare it to the others yet until I hit the 100k mark. But I'd rank the Buick more reliable than the Panther. Not only did I have intake manifold issues with the Ford, but electrical gremlins also. The Ford also had some weird shifting issues until I started using Maxlife syn trans lube. I gave the GM to my best friend at about 120k, and it now has close to 180k on it, but the trans is slipping bad. I blame that on him because he flushed the trans twice when he got the car from me. You just don't do that to an older car. The Buick was fairly problem free until about 100k, at that time I sold it because of recurring cam sensor problems. However, after selling it I frequently saw the car around my neighborhood for several more years LOL

 

[OVERKILL]

First to address a few posts suggesting the Avalon is not in the same league as a 3800 or Panther I give you this link

The Longest-Lasting Cars, Trucks and SUVs To Reach 250,000 Miles and Beyond - iSeeCars.com

The average vehicle has just an 11.8 percent chance of lasting 250,000 miles, but the latest iSeeCars.com study identified the 23 longest-lasting models...

www.iseecars.com

Funny, I don't see either the 3800 or Panther on the list LMAO

Dude, seriously?

iSeeCars.com established its industry-leading Longest-Lasting Cars study in 2013. This tenth anniversary study analyzed over 260 million cars sold between 2012 and 2022 to determine which cars were most likely to survive to high mileages.

The Panther ended production for US consumer consumption in 2011.

 

[Rand]

Dude, seriously?
The Panther ended production for US consumer consumption in 2011.

I prefer

As someone mentioned earlier though its the condition of the exact car being looked at that trumps which model.

 

[Corollaman]

Most reliable? I'd say the Crown Vic and it's cousins. I do like the Buicks with the 3.8, but I think if you're taking the entire vehicle into consideration in terms of reliability the Fords are better and parts are inexpensive.

 

[Shel_B]

Having owned a 3800 Buick Lesabre, a Grand Marquis, and a Toyota Avalon, I think I'm in a better position than most to comment on some of these posts.

First to address a few posts suggesting the Avalon is not in the same league as a 3800 or Panther I give you this link

The Longest-Lasting Cars, Trucks and SUVs To Reach 250,000 Miles and Beyond - iSeeCars.com

The average vehicle has just an 11.8 percent chance of lasting 250,000 miles, but the latest iSeeCars.com study identified the 23 longest-lasting models...

www.iseecars.com

Funny, I don't see either the 3800 or Panther on the list LMAO

The 3800 ended production in 2008, the Panther a couple of years later, both before this list was compiled.

 

[Snagglefoot]

The only problem with them is they were mostly fleet sales, so they were used and abused. Finding a well preserved example today will be difficult.

Good point, but 2006-2008 sales were strong enough to indicate it was more than just fleet sales. Then the recession came along in 2009 and sales dropped, never to recover. I’m thinking GM relied on fleet sales after 2016. Here are the sales numbers.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Interesting to see that rental companies have 2020 Impalas for sale with 60,000 miles.

 

[eljefino]

4 banger Fusion? Must be pretty cheap these days and I'd think as reliable as an older GM car? Maybe rides as nice and is close to as quiet?

They're great but they rust out in the rockers and possibly subframe too.

The Avalon is a good value because the 55-year olds who bought them new don't want to own them past an arbitrary age, year ten or so, +/-. Not that there's a particular problem, but the first owners feel uneasy. Then, because they aren't cool, noone else wants to buy them either so the price plummets.

I'd rather have a 4 cyl Camry though, far easier to work on. The Avalon is an extended Camry, just like the taxi P70 Crown Vic has an extra few inches of floor pan.

 

[350Rocket]

They're great but they rust out in the rockers and possibly subframe too.

The Avalon is a good value because the 55-year olds who bought them new don't want to own them past an arbitrary age, year ten or so, +/-. Not that there's a particular problem, but the first owners feel uneasy. Then, because they aren't cool, noone else wants to buy them either so the price plummets.

I'd rather have a 4 cyl Camry though, far easier to work on. The Avalon is an extended Camry, just like the taxi P70 Crown Vic has an extra few inches of floor pan.

My sister and I replaced the valve cover gasket on her 2005 Camry 4 banger and it was an extremely easy job. I would much rather work on that car but I would rather drive the V6 model. But then if we're talking about v6 Camry the Buick or Panther, I would probably prefer either of them over the Toyota. But in this case I would buy any of them based on price/condition, because that would be the deciding factor between them all. If you search for a good one of all 3, eventually you will find a good deal.

 

[supton]

My 5S-FE Camry has been stupid easy to work on. Maybe I'd change my tune if I had to pull the intake manifold. But alternator, starter, radiator--minutes to do the job. I don't want to know the book time for the alternator on my CRV...

Not sure which I'd want, a FWD or a RWD. I prefer driving a FWD, easier to drive in the snow--I've never taken a performance driving class, never will, so while it's fun to swap ends intentionally I've never intentionally done so (but have). But I bet the RWD is easier to replace the trans and BITOG wisdom has been that an automatic is good for 150k and then all bets off. Which is cheaper to R&R? At this age it's all about the PO maintenance and the cost of future repairs. Buying a used car means keeping a few thousand in the back pocket for the unknown.

 

[dishdude]

Good point, but 2006-2008 sales were strong enough to indicate it was more than just fleet sales. Then the recession came along in 2009 and sales dropped, never to recover. I’m thinking GM relied on fleet sales after 2016. Here are the sales numbers.

You're right, from what I remember the redesign did do a lot of retail sales 06-08.

 

[350Rocket]

My 5S-FE Camry has been stupid easy to work on. Maybe I'd change my tune if I had to pull the intake manifold. But alternator, starter, radiator--minutes to do the job. I don't want to know the book time for the alternator on my CRV...

Not sure which I'd want, a FWD or a RWD. I prefer driving a FWD, easier to drive in the snow--I've never taken a performance driving class, never will, so while it's fun to swap ends intentionally I've never intentionally done so (but have). But I bet the RWD is easier to replace the trans and BITOG wisdom has been that an automatic is good for 150k and then all bets off. Which is cheaper to R&R? At this age it's all about the PO maintenance and the cost of future repairs. Buying a used car means keeping a few thousand in the back pocket for the unknown.

I prefer rear wheel drive in snow or rain but I was a bit nutty in my younger years and did a lot of donuts and drifting in my Cutlass and Caprices. One time I almost went in the ditch with my mom's front wheel drive Plymouth breeze, luckily the hand brake saved me at the last second.

 

[supton]

I prefer rear wheel drive in snow or rain but I was a bit nutty in my younger years and did a lot of donuts and drifting in my Cutlass and Caprices. One time I almost went in the ditch with my mom's front wheel drive Plymouth breeze, luckily the hand brake saved me at the last second.

Oh its fun to do, but only when you meant to!

 

[350Rocket]

Oh its fun to do, but only when you meant to!

Oh I always meant to. It's just about counter steering the right amount. The old caprices could go almost completely sideways and still turned back straight again. Longer wheelbase helps. I think with the right driver, rear wheel drive can be safer.

 

[Elkins45]

I thought I had a line on a nice Grand Marquis but it sold before I could drive it. A dealership an hour away has a 2006 Avalon with 138k miles listed at $6000. I wasn’t considering one before but now I might give it a look. There’s also a Lincoln Town Car on Facebook but of course it’s an hour in the opposite direction.

I could already have bought a car for the gas money I’ve spend looking at trash wagons and rust barges. All part of the fun I guess. I suppose I should just be grateful I have the luxury of being selective.

 

[GON]

I thought I had a line on a nice Grand Marquis but it sold before I could drive it. A dealership an hour away has a 2006 Avalon with 138k miles listed at $6000. I wasn’t considering one before but now I might give it a look. There’s also a Lincoln Town Car on Facebook but of course it’s an hour in the opposite direction.

I could already have bought a car for the gas money I’ve spend looking at trash wagons and rust barges. All part of the fun I guess. I suppose I should just be grateful I have the luxury of being selective.

Issue was many of the Lincolns is certain parts are obsolete. Lincoln uses a lot of parts that change every few years, and this parts become obsolete.

Sometimes there are aftermarket solutions, sometimes not. One example is the air shocks for some Lincolns. Ford doesn't make spares for some, and some don't have aftermarket replacement. I know coils are the option in that case, but if I have a car with air shocks, I want to keep that feature.

 

[supton]

Longer wheelbase helps. I think with the right driver, rear wheel drive can be safer.

Hmm, maybe...? Not sure. The one time I did it in my FWD, I couldn't recover. The one time I almost did in the RWD, I recovered... but guess which had snow tires? so not quite apples and oranges.

The truck was arguably more fun than the Saturn. But w/o 4WD it'd get stuck in my driveway--my FWD's, not so much. But weight distribution matters, so again, not quite apples and oranges.

Anyhow, I'm not the right driver, so FWD for me, going forward.

 

[ripcord]

Hmm, maybe...? Not sure. The one time I did it in my FWD, I couldn't recover. The one time I almost did in the RWD, I recovered... but guess which had snow tires? so not quite apples and oranges.

The truck was arguably more fun than the Saturn. But w/o 4WD it'd get stuck in my driveway--my FWD's, not so much. But weight distribution matters, so again, not quite apples and oranges.

Anyhow, I'm not the right driver, so FWD for me, going forward.

Hear, hear! 99% of people who think they are the right driver, aren't. Richard Petty and Rusty Wallace probably couldn't stop any faster on a rainy day in a surprise panic stop on the freeway without anti-lock brakes than they could with them.

 

[Paco Pena]

A Toyota Avalon.

Beats both with ease.

Its the Japanese Crown Vic.

Paco