More Evidence That Doesn't Support 10K Oil Changes
- Thread starter billt460
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Well yeah, for sure you can believe only what you want to hear, and dismiss everything else. That's called politics. Do you think that Toyota mechanic is lying? If so what are you basing it on? He preaches what most of the engine builders say continually. No more than 5K on oil.
The fact is the consumer cannot control his or her oil choice most of the time if they're having it done. What percentage even try? And for those who do, you're still at the mercy of the dealership.
Quick lube places pump their oil out of a drum. You most likely don't even know if you're getting the correct weight. Let alone the correct grade. Do you think Jiffy Lube gives you HPL quality oil if you ask for it?
Who makes, "Genuine Toyota Oil"? They don't. And how does the consumer know he's even getting it? Let alone what's in it, that will allow for him or her to go 10K on it?...... Like the doctor who is getting his engine replaced.
We have thread after thread here asking who makes SuperTech, or other mass produced "no name" brands. Unless you select and buy the oil yourself, and put it in yourself, you really have no way of knowing. Instead you, "trust".
And that doctor in the video is wishing he hadn't. And if you don't like my numbers, then show me yours. What percentage of people do you think change their own oil? And what percentage of those have it analyzed? It's minuscule at best.
I honestly don't know anyone who does. Here yeah. But we don't budge the needle of the overall driving public. Which in 2022, amounted to 255 million driving Americans. Do the math and see what you come up with.
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Why I always use the best , extended drain, oil I can buy.
If the car manufacturer says I can go “XX” number of miles per oil change based on OLM driving habits, and I back that up with an oil that says it ( Amsoil or HPL with UOA ) can go even longer , I am comfortable just changing it when the OLM says it needs to be changed even though it often results in 12,500 miles oil drain intervals.
Like the guy said, “ we don’t know what kind of oil was used “.
It’s peace of mind for me. It’s cheap insurance to use the very best oil ( and check the oil level quantity ), and filter.
If the car manufacturer says I can go “XX” number of miles per oil change based on OLM driving habits, and I back that up with an oil that says it ( Amsoil or HPL with UOA ) can go even longer , I am comfortable just changing it when the OLM says it needs to be changed even though it often results in 12,500 miles oil drain intervals.
Like the guy said, “ we don’t know what kind of oil was used “.
It’s peace of mind for me. It’s cheap insurance to use the very best oil ( and check the oil level quantity ), and filter.
I did 10k oil changes on my 2007 Audi A6 3.2 and daughters 2008 VW Jetta 2.5. I used Mobil 1 502 and really didn't have issues. Audi had 148k on it and sold to my mechanic after steering column failed. He fixed and still on the road his father says best car he has owned. My daughter just gave her Jetta to her sister-in-law after 16 years and 188k miles after she wanted a new car. It is still going strong. I guess it depends on application. Also some people use cheap oil and do 10k OCI which will be a problem.
My rebuttal to your blanket statement is my daughter’s 2002 Volvo.
Using the factory oil change interval of 7,500, the oil has changed by dealers and indies because it’s in Salt Lake City. They have been using good oil that meets specifications. Once in a while, she provides the oil, either Mobil 1 0W40 or HPL 0W30 Euro.
Now it is at 230,000 miles, it burns no oil. It has no leaks.
So, yes, you can go factory specified oil change interval with factory specified oil and not have problems.
Blanket statements are often* wrong.
*I would say always wrong, but that would be a blanket statement!
Using the factory oil change interval of 7,500, the oil has changed by dealers and indies because it’s in Salt Lake City. They have been using good oil that meets specifications. Once in a while, she provides the oil, either Mobil 1 0W40 or HPL 0W30 Euro.
Now it is at 230,000 miles, it burns no oil. It has no leaks.
So, yes, you can go factory specified oil change interval with factory specified oil and not have problems.
Blanket statements are often* wrong.
*I would say always wrong, but that would be a blanket statement!
The video posted, that started this thread is so bad! Sherwood, the guy in the video, initially claims that the engine has been regularly serviced every 7,500 - 8,000 miles. But later, when he shows us the actual Carfax, we see that there is absolutely no record of any oil change until 53,096 miles.
He "thinks" that during the first 44,000 miles, the oil changes were done as part of the lease agreement. And he "assumes" that after the car came in from the lease, it was serviced before being sold to the 2nd owner. But those 7,500 - 8,000 mile oil changes don't start until over 53,000 miles is on it!
How embarrassing that anyone here is using this video as a basis to criticize 10,000 mile oil changes. BITOG is all about the real science of car maintenance - not about sensationalized claims, that appear to be nothing more than an attempt to increase Youtube traffic.
He "thinks" that during the first 44,000 miles, the oil changes were done as part of the lease agreement. And he "assumes" that after the car came in from the lease, it was serviced before being sold to the 2nd owner. But those 7,500 - 8,000 mile oil changes don't start until over 53,000 miles is on it!
How embarrassing that anyone here is using this video as a basis to criticize 10,000 mile oil changes. BITOG is all about the real science of car maintenance - not about sensationalized claims, that appear to be nothing more than an attempt to increase Youtube traffic.
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Put a collar shirt on and wear a man bun you become the internet genius.
How do you explain away the second video.
CarCareNut is meticulous.
The key point is that more people than realized should go for a Severe Service maintenance plan.
CCN did an oil change on a Corolla GR Hatchback.
He used M1 instead of TGMO because of the RC ("Resource Conserving") label being there with the M1, and not with the TGMO.
Details always matter.
YMMV.
We all know our driving conditions, and we all have the capability of being informed about our drivetrains.
I'm not real good with taking pictures with my bore scope, but here is a picture down the oil fill, on my Merecedes E350. 106k miles, with 10k mile oci, since I bought the car with 46k miles on it. All oil changes have been M1 0W-40 European Car Formula, which as pointed out earlier by @Astro14, meets the Mercedes 229.5 specification. Not a trace of varnish, let alone sludge.
So I'm very skeptical of Youtube videos that claim that an engine full of sludge was maintained to the manufacturer's service schedule.
So I'm very skeptical of Youtube videos that claim that an engine full of sludge was maintained to the manufacturer's service schedule.
Look, in my experience, 5,000 mile intervals cause sludge. I posted pictures of it.
Here.
Post in thread 'Filter pictures HPL 0W30 6,000 miles, 2002 Volvo XC70'
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...000-miles-2002-volvo-xc70.360166/post-6648642
Look at all that junk in the engine. See what a 5,000 mile interval does to cars?
But 10,000 mile intervals result in perfectly clean engines.
So, clearly, you should run 10,000 mile intervals.
Short intervals are the engine killer.
See what happens when you ignore all the other factors, and focus on one thing?
That’s a mistake. Other factors; oil specification, engine, use pattern must be considered when discussing intervals.
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There is no proof of that. Many Toyotas are motoring along without issue with 10k OCI. Based on so many engines in the "control" group safely going 10k OCI, this points to an engine problem not an OCI problem. If it was the 10k OCI as the root cause, we'd see a lot more failed Toyota engines than we do.
I love this guys videos. Claims regular service was done and offers zero proof (the channel you originally posted at least took the minimal effort required to flash some records) Claims good oil was used and offers zero proof. And the pièce de résistance, claims oil analysis won’t detect the problem and once gain offers zero proof.
That last one is really unforgivable because if you’re going to make a statement that bold all it takes is $40 and an clean oil report showing low oxidation over the long interval to prove his point… nah we can’t have silly things like facts getting in the way of our feelings.
He showed what the problem was. Heavy oil consumption that resulted from badly scored cylinder walls, that was caused by the oil rings seizing up from gunk caused by too infrequent oil changes.
Had he changed the oil at 5K instead of 10K that problem would not have occurred. This is a case where a reasonably educated customer listened to the dealer that sold him the vehicle, did what he was told by said dealer, and paid the price.
Whoa! Wait a minute. How do we know this?
How about this? I could claim that it was the motor oil choice. Had he used Pennzoil Platinum instead of Valvoline bulk, from the dealership, that problem would not have occurred.
I have no more proof of my claim than you do yours. But I feel good about it, so it must be true.
You're missing the entire point. This guy did exactly what the dealership told him to that sold him the vehicle.
Bring the vehicle in every 10K for oil changes Which he did religiously. He assumed by having these oil changes performed at the Toyota dealership, he would be having the proper oil put in the vehicle. What more was the guy supposed to do?
You're carrying on with a bunch of nonsense.
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^^ Without objection - admitted into evidence ^^
I totally get that, at least to the information we have been given, it looks like the owner was doing everything that he was supposed to do.
The one bit of information that is missing, that has been mentioned by others here also, is what motor oil the dealerships used. Or what motor oil the owner had used. We don't know.
Was it a full synthetic, that is appropriate for a 10k mile oci? Or did they use something less? Even a semi-synthetic really wouldn't have been the right oil for a 10k oci. We don't know. If The Car Care Nut shared this, I missed it. But this is a big deal. I wonder why he didn't address it. Did it not fit in his agenda, of throwing doubt into the 10k oci?
Again, we just don't know enough. At least the first video showed the records. This time we don't have the records, so who knows? Not you. Not me.
Toyota had a reputation where I worked for a lot of oil burning engines. This was around 2011 when I was going back to college for surveying and switched to part time doing oil changes in the express lube instead of being a service advisor. 2007+ engines especially seemed prone to oil usage when people weren't keeping up with oil changes. If I saw 16,000km oil changes on any vehicle I was looking at it I would likely pass on it unless it was a steal or if it was a highway driving car that went those kms in just a few months.
I suspect the sludge in those Toyota 2.4 and 1.8 engines is only really happening in the ring packs when oil changes are neglected somewhat but not forgotten about completely.
16,000kms city driving, once a year oci including temps down to minus 20s in my opinion is neglect. In general something like 6 month oil changes would typically be pretty safe as long as you don't let it get low. Unfortunately most people I saw that would leave an oil change that long would never even pop the hood.
Forgot to mention that we had Pennzoil bulk oil and could choose between regular pyb, high mileage, synthetic blend or full synthetic. Most people would just use the cheap stuff and if they were doing regular short ocis then I would never recommend spending the extra on full synthetic. But if they tended to go longer on oil changes then I recommended the full synthetic. Some people the $ wasn't the issue as much as making time to stop in.
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