More Evidence That Doesn't Support 10K Oil Changes

[SC Maintenance]

It was a leased vehicle for the first 43k miles with no service records, so this example is null and void.

Land Rover provides free service in warranty, and in theory if you don't provide service records during a lease they can deduct on turn in. Carfax is far from perfect. You really can't assume anything during that period. Even if 43K no service - not good - but I don't know if that was the cause in this case - it was some time ago.

There is another well documented case with the famous youtube Toyota guy that is replacing a Camry engine at like 170K that was well documented 10K OCI.

 

[burbguy82]

One poster on here showed me a picture of the oil pan off on his car, @10k intervals, or so he said. Near spotless.

I agree that the practice is not for everyone, and it should be accompanied by normal checks of fluid level, and perhaps a known "good" oil.

I do not do 10k changes, usually 3-5 on the vehicles I dont drive a lot. Maybe 5-6 on my daily, using off the shelf oil.

As @dnewton3 stated, there is more to OCI\sludge than just miles.

 

[Astro14]

The internals of this engine are really sludged up. And they have documentation that 10K oil service was done. Make of it what you will.

10K on the wrong oil = fail.

10K on the proper oil = success.

We have been through this so many times.

I do 10K on the two V-12s. I’ve posted numerous pictures of spotless internals. Spotless.

But 5K on conventional oil led to severe sludge in two of my Volvos.

It is not a matter of the interval, it is a combination of oil specification, interval, and engine particulars.

 

[RevvCats]

Approaching 57k total miles with ~10k mile intervals on my 2019 Mustang’s Coyote, most of them with 5W-20 while it was under warranty, and I’m still waiting to see all this sludge YouTube mechanics keep telling me will happen. Pretty sure my engine is also supposed to damaged beyond belief from using thin CAFE oils but lo and behold I don’t see that either.

These weren’t fancy oils either, just the basic “full synthetic” ie majority group 3 offerings from Mobil 1, Valvoline, and Castrol. Factory fill was probably Motorcrafts synthetic blend, and that was in there for 7.5k miles.

Mix of highway and stop and go city driving. Lots of winter driving with cold starts below freezing. Car is redlined daily. No short tripping though, when the car is driven it always gets fully warmed up. The only short oil change intervals that car has seen is when I’ve taken it to the track.

 

[shortyb]

As stated, 99% of BITOGers know what to do with regard to OCI, ie; proper oils, conditions of use, UOAs etc. Armed with that information, each can make his/her own determination as to exactly what OCI to settle on. Now, I dare say that only 1% of the motoring public have a clue about all this and won't follow whats "recommended" without some other consideration. The other 99% are sheep. I've railed for years saying the only way to make sure is to use analysis. Beyond that is specualtion.

 

[Astro14]

One poster on here showed me a picture of the oil pan off on his car, @10k intervals, or so he said. Near spotless.

I agree that the practice is not for everyone, and it should be accompanied by normal checks of fluid level, and perhaps a known "good" oil.

I do not do 10k changes, usually 3-5 on the vehicles I dont drive a lot. Maybe 5-6 on my daily, using off the shelf oil.

As @dnewton3 stated, there is more to OCI\sludge than just miles.

I didn’t “say” it - it is true. I’ve been following Mercedes 10,000 mile change interval, with Mercedes 229.5 specification oil. The engines are spotless. Absolutely clean.

Here https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/under-the-valve-covers-2005-mercedes-sl600.362512/

And the oil pan view

Post in thread 'Service dept uses unapproved oil. Looking for advice (M-Benz GLC 300)'
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...for-advice-m-benz-glc-300.374389/post-6646326

Both engines look the same - perfectly clean. I did valve cover gaskets on the S600 a few years ago.

I’ve got UOAs to show how the oil is holding up with 10,000 mile change intervals. The HPL could clearly have gone farther.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...-10-137-miles-2005-mercedes-s600-m275.384861/

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/2005-mercedes-s600-v-12-m275-mobil-1-0w40.257362/

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/mobil-1-0w40-10-145-miles-mercedes-m275-v-12.270464/

 

[burbguy82]

I didn’t “say” it - it is true. I’ve been following Mercedes 10,000 mile change interval, with Mercedes 229.5 specification oil. The engines are spotless. Absolutely clean.

Here https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/under-the-valve-covers-2005-mercedes-sl600.362512/

And the oil pan view

Post in thread 'Service dept uses unapproved oil. Looking for advice (M-Benz GLC 300)'
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...for-advice-m-benz-glc-300.374389/post-6646326

Both engines look the same - perfectly clean. I did valve cover gaskets on the S600 a few years ago.

I’ve got UOAs to show how the oil is holding up with 10,000 mile change intervals. The HPL could clearly have gone farther.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...-10-137-miles-2005-mercedes-s600-m275.384861/

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/2005-mercedes-s600-v-12-m275-mobil-1-0w40.257362/

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/mobil-1-0w40-10-145-miles-mercedes-m275-v-12.270464/

Sure. I did not take it as you were not being truthful. I think you are 100% truthful. My statement was just relaying the information as evidence than the 10k OCI can be plenty effective, thusly backing up the notion.

Did you take it otherwise?

I did not name you specifically, because I did not see you involved in the conversation, as a matter of respect, and not getting unwitting people invloved in an endless arguement. But since you named yourself.......yes it was you who shared that info with me, and others.

Of course, all engines are different, and driving styles and intervals are different. I am sure that some who have the exact same engine and car, but different driving habits have had different results than you.

Really, if it looks like that, 10k is not the limit, I agree.

 

[SevenBizzos]

So if I get a YouTube channel, post my 10k UOA's, and tell you that should be your OCI, you'll share it on BITOG as fact? I'm in.

 

[billt460]

Land Rover provides free service in warranty, and in theory if you don't provide service records during a lease they can deduct on turn in. Carfax is far from perfect. You really can't assume anything during that period. Even if 43K no service - not good - but I don't know if that was the cause in this case - it was some time ago.

There is another well documented case with the famous youtube Toyota guy that is replacing a Camry engine at like 170K that was well documented 10K OCI.

Here it is. All dealer serviced, 10,000 mile OCI's

 

[Pablo]

Just few minutes in video I have no idea what oil was used yep I was out enough for me.

That is EXACTLY what I did. Such a video is not even worthy of anecdotal comment.

He, in his brain, averages the OCI and then goes on saying "dunno what oil".

Why even post this rubbish? I see the OP is TRYING to make a point I think!!

 

[Pablo]

One poster on here showed me a picture of the oil pan off on his car, @10k intervals, or so he said. Near spotless.

I agree that the practice is not for everyone, and it should be accompanied by normal checks of fluid level, and perhaps a known "good" oil.

I do not do 10k changes, usually 3-5 on the vehicles I dont drive a lot. Maybe 5-6 on my daily, using off the shelf oil.

As @dnewton3 stated, there is more to OCI\sludge than just miles.

10K on the wrong oil = fail.

10K on the proper oil = success.

We have been through this so many times.

I do 10K on the two V-12s. I’ve posted numerous pictures of spotless internals. Spotless.

But 5K on conventional oil led to severe sludge in two of my Volvos.

It is not a matter of the interval, it is a combination of oil specification, interval, and engine particulars.

Bam.

I change the oil in our engines once a year. One is a known fuel diluter, the other a known shearer, hard on oil.

Of course I have not cracked open the engine. No need to!

 

[Leo99]

Here it is. All dealer serviced, 10,000 mile OCI's

It's a bias. If the engine blew with 5k OCI, the reason would be tied to some internal engine part being defective or something along those lines. Since the OCI was 10k, he blames the 10k OCI for the failure. What about the 1000s of Toyotas happily motoring along with 10k OCI.

 

[JTK]

I've seen this same scenario play out on other boards I frequent, where someone buys an off lease or ex-rental with no, or very limited maintenance records for it's first ~3yrs/36K miles.

They may maintain it per spec from then on, but that lack of records from it's first life is going to bite you if you have a related problem. Especially if you bought an extended warranty package.

 

[JustN89]

10K on the wrong oil = fail.

10K on the proper oil = success.

But I thought oil was oil and if they met the same specs, they would perform the same??


/s, in case that was necessary.

 

[JTK]

...What about the 1000s of Toyotas happily motoring along with 10k OCI.

They're not GDI turbos.

 

[Sumboodie]

10k+ OCIs are marketing and sales driven schemes. They're not designed for optimal drivetrain functions and longevity.

250 or 500hr oil changes have been industry standard for easily 30 yrs on equipment... and that's with "cheap" oil.

250hrs equates to around 10k miles, 500hrs, 20k. 500hr usually done on larger sumps, like 8-10+ gallons.

Tracking oil by engine hours makes far more sense than miles.
It's winter and you let your car run 20 mins every morning to warm up the cab and thaw the windshield.

That's around 400 "miles" a month that's not accounted for.
5 Months a year... 10 years... car shows 20k "miles" less than it really has.

Never mind time at stop lights, drive throughs, etc, etc, etc.

 

[billt460]

Why even post this rubbish? I see you are TRYING (quite hard) to make a point (you posted another vid).

What IS your point, exactly? State it like a man and we will dissect it.

I didn't realize this was going to get into johnson length. Basically 99.9% of people driving out there, are taking a big chance going 10,000 miles on oil. Period.

I will admit the second video is actually better. The guy bought the car brand new, and mentioned changing the oil at 5,000 miles at the time he purchased it.

The dealer told him that was unnecessary, and 10,000 miles was what the manufacturer recommended in the manual. So, he followed the manufacturers recommendation, and 175,000 miles later he's getting a new engine.

We're told this guy is supposedly a doctor. So we can assume he's not an idiot, and is quite educated. He trusted those religious 10K oil changes to the Toyota dealer, and no one else.

Had he stuck to his routine, and not listened to the dealer, and did 5K oil changes instead, in all likelihood he would have the same engine in his car.... I really don't know what else needs to be said?

As far as the masses out there, what percentage of vehicle owners today change their own oil? I'll bet it's far less than 1%. Especially with all of the quick change places out there that make it so convenient for people today.

What percentage of the people who do change their own oil, have that old oil analyzed? Most likely less than one tenth of a percent of them. I've changed my own oil ever since I started driving, and I've never done it. It's easier and cheaper to simply change it.

Point is for 99.9% of the cars you see on the road today, that are being driven by regular people, and not BITOG scientists or "oilologists", they are taking a big risk going 10,000 miles on their oil.

Yes, with all the planets in perfect alignment, with the right high grade oil, under all the right conditions, it can be done. And done successfully.

But for the other 99.99% of the driving world, it's simply not worth the risk. Because there are too many variables that cannot be controlled by the consumer.

 

[Pablo]

Basically 99.9% of people driving out there, are taking a big chance going 10,000 miles on oil. Period.



But for the other 99.99% of the driving world, it's simply not worth the risk. Because there are too many variables that cannot be controlled by the consumer.

From one nine to two nines tells me you are just making this up as you go along,

The consumer can easily control his oil choice. But does he/she want to, or know to? Probably not.

That said, dubious YouTube video is not DATA or PROOF. That is my point. There is no certainty in what really happened in any of these.

 

[Intelligent Molecule]

I didn't realize this was going to get into johnson length. Basically 99.9% of people driving out there, are taking a big chance going 10,000 miles on oil. Period.

I will admit the second video is actually better. The guy bought the car brand new, and mentioned changing the oil at 5,000 miles at the time he purchased it.

The dealer told him that was unnecessary, and 10,000 miles was what the manufacturer recommended in the manual. So, he followed the manufacturers recommendation, and 175,000 miles later he's getting a new engine.

We're told this guy is supposedly a doctor. So we can assume he's not an idiot, and is quite educated. He trusted those religious 10K oil changes to the Toyota dealer, and no one else.

Had he stuck to his routine, and not listened to the dealer, and did 5K oil changes instead, in all likelihood he would have the same engine in his car.... I really don't know what else needs to be said?

As far as the masses out there, what percentage of vehicle owners today change their own oil? I'll bet it's far less than 1%. Especially with all of the quick change places out there that make it so convenient for people today.

What percentage of the people who do change their own oil, have that old oil analyzed? Most likely less than one tenth of a percent of them. I've changed my own oil ever since I started driving, and I've never done it. It's easier and cheaper to simply change it.

Point is for 99.9% of the cars you see on the road today, that are being driven by regular people, and not BITOG scientists or "oilologists", they are taking a big risk going 10,000 miles on their oil.

Yes, with all the planets in perfect alignment, with the right high grade oil, under all the right conditions, it can be done. And done successfully.

But for the other 99.99% of the driving world, it's simply not worth the risk. Because there are too many variables that cannot be controlled by the consumer.

99.9% taking a big chance with 10K mile oil changes? Exaggerate much?

 

[Pablo]

More evidence that making 100% blanket statements are akin to clickbait ...
This YT video is just monetization for his sake and not really a comprehensive view by any stretch.

Some engines will not fare well with 10k mile OCIs; that's very true.
Some engines will do quite well with 20k mile OCIs; that's also true.

The OCI is NOT the only variable to consider. Here's a starter list of things that need to be taken into account in addition to the OCI duration:
- engine series history for contamination (soot and insolubles)
- engine series history for mechanical issues and design considerations (induction type; ring pack drain back; sump capacity, etc ...)
- operational pattern (short trips in cold weather; long trips at full temp; etc)
- lubricant chosen (a low cost lube with a low quantity of DI package, vs a very high quality lube with an excellent DI package specifically designed for long use)
- maintenance plan (UOAs? PCs? etc)

Examples:
The Saturn SL2 engines were known to sludge rings badly even with 5k mile OCIs. They were "iffy" at 3k mile OCIs.
The Ford Cyclone n/a engines are known to easily run 10k+ miles and stay perfectly clean inside with "normal" lubes (ST dino oil, and I've got UOAs to prove it).


The proper answer to any OCI question is "it depends", because as soon as you change one of those input variables listed above, you have to adjust one or more of the others to compensate.

People won't "hear" this 99.999% chance!!

I like YouTube videos. Many of us do obviously, but it's entertainment. It's "TV" for 2024. Not necessarily a vast wasteland, but most all, and especially mechanics talking is not Baconian science, repeatable double blind science.