More Evidence That Doesn't Support 10K Oil Changes

[350Rocket]

Very common in Canada actually, 5,000 miles was just turned into 5,000 kilometres, so we got even more frequent OCI's.

We always did 5000km stickers at the Pennzoil express lube I used to work at...but since I was a member here long before that....if someone asked me about oil change intervals...."where's your coffee, do you have a few minutes to talk"? Lol.

 

[demarpaint]

Everyone wants a simple, straightforward answer when in reality there just isn't one. Whether it's the Nissan guy saying change it every 3k, to your OLM to Joe Schmoe at Autozone saying every 500 miles to oil marketers claiming 25k miles. So many things to consider, including how long you want to keep the car and what is acceptable to you for your own standards.

If I were to help someone that knows nothing about oil or cars, I would simply tell them to use an oil that meets the specification in their owner's manual and change it based off the severe service interval just for cushion.

Exactly! I feel bad for people reading these pages taking everything they read here as Gospel. What works for one doesn't work for everyone. Following blanket statements can and will get some people in trouble when it comes to doing a long OCIs on blind faith. Having your own data is money well spent if you want to run your oil as long as you safely can. If you don't want to pay for the data, following the severe service interval is a pretty safe bet.

 

[350Rocket]

People who do a UOA are looking at much more than wear metals, there is the matter of TBN, viscosity, and fuel dilution.

Just like the original poster, you are focused on one thing, and ignore important aspects of the topic, to make the short OCI argument.

If the TBN is strong, you’re not getting sludge - chemically, the alkalinity prevents sludge formation.

So, a UOA can absolutely help you determine the appropriate OCI for your engine, your use, and your oil.

Here is an engine that went 34,000 on the oil - and is spotless. No sludge.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...-total-34-000-miles-on-hpl-hdeo-5w-20.377792/

Shall we ignore all other important, salient, factors, and put this example in the “short intervals cause sludge” category?

Because clearly, extreme interval cause super-clean engines.

TBN is a good indicator except with coolant intrusion apparently.... I learned this on my recent (and first) UOA that confirmed a coolant leak internally. I paid extra for TBN and it was very high still after 5k miles with m1 0w40 but Blackstone said the coolant was skewing that number.
My engine had quite a bit of sludge (by my standard anyway) after years of 3-5k mile oil changes. I thought I was trying to clean up sludge from a plugged up PCV from previous neglect..but the sludge was still building up likely.
I had the drivers side off 2 years ago and replaced the valve cover/PCV and then last month I pulled off both sides and the non PCV side had even more sludge than the drivers side did 2 years ago.
10k mile oil changes (which would be down to 0% OLM twice) without an internal coolant leak would have left it cleaner than 5k or less with this very very slow coolant leak over an unknown number of years.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

TBN is a good indicator except with coolant intrusion apparently.... I learned this on my recent (and first) UOA that confirmed a coolant leak internally. I paid extra for TBN and it was very high still after 5k miles with m1 0w40 but Blackstone said the coolant was skewing that number.
My engine had quite a bit of sludge (by my standard anyway) after years of 3-5k mile oil changes. I thought I was trying to clean up sludge from a plugged up PCV from previous neglect..but the sludge was still building up likely.
I had the drivers side off 2 years ago and replaced the valve cover/PCV and then last month I pulled off both sides and the non PCV side had even more sludge than the drivers side did 2 years ago.
10k mile oil changes (which would be down to 0% OLM twice) without an internal coolant leak would have left it cleaner than 5k or less with this very very slow coolant leak over an unknown number of years.

Potassium & sodium ppm upper control limits are there to identify coolant; that’s not job of the TBN result.

 

[SimpleSyrup]

So these YouTube mechanics are tearing into damaged engines and calling it proof that the oil changes caused the problem. Ok

1. How many perfectly functional engines do they see that are doing the manufacturer recommended oil changes?

2. How many people come into a shop and say, "Hey boss, will you tear into this engine for me? I've got zero problems, but I've been running 10k OCIs on TGMO so I just wanted to see how much damage it has."

Because you know what the manufactures are doing? Having a team of metallurgists, chemical engineers, mechanical engineers and technicians tear into perfectly functional engines over and over to test their assumptions. Mechanics, who only tear into broken engines, you think they might not be seeing the whole picture?

 

[SimpleSyrup]

How many hours and miles does the Honda OLM typically arrive you at? Do you know if it's as advanced as say GM's? If the OLM isn't properly designed (doesn't take into account all the necessary parameters) or the OEM doesn't spec a sufficiently robust lubricant for the interval the IOLM is going to arrive at based on its programmed parameters, that's not really a condemnation of the IOLM or the IOLM concept but rather of the OEM.

Have an R18A Civic with 200k. Have done MM OCIs for over 16 years, changing from 5-20% depending on my time (oil change light comes on at 20%). 5W-20 when I first got it, 0W-20 when that became widely available. Last time I did the valves, it looked basically new inside. Zero varnish or sludge. The MM seems fairly intelligent. High loads, it dramatically shortens the OCI down to 4500. Mixed city / highway, usually around 8000 miles. No clue how it compares to the GM. The oil still looks slightly dark but very clean even at 20% life left. I suspect I could run it down to 0% every time and still be fine.

On a K24Z CRV, I don't trust it at all. That engine is kind of a turd on a good day. I change at 40-50% of the MM. At 40%, the oil smells like fuel, it's dark. It was a used car, probably not maintained well, and I'm sure some YT celebrity mechanic would be like, "Look at this! Guy says he did the factory OCIs and the engine looks like a pile of cancer blisters! I'm telling all my guys to do weekly oil changes on these Hondas from now on. We just want to do right by our customers."

 

[M56959]

Topic has run its course.