Mobil Clean 5000 VOA

[buster]

We need another sample of both these oils sent to BlKstone Labs and another. Analystsinc. ?

*I just bumped up 3 M 7500 UOA's. Both had 200ppm + of Na.

George take a look at the UOA section. Only thing I could think of is if Blk stone labs picks up Na but it's actually something else...is that possible?

[ November 11, 2005, 07:16 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[mossad]

***.!!! Are you guys saying this Na will cause any harm in any way if it in fact is there in this amount? will it?

 

[Terry]

Under the voa's of Butler ( CAT owned lab) done by the late Mark Mathys(Stinky) are one each of DC7500 5w and 10w30. He posted them in the VOA library. I think they were done in 2/05.

Mossad , you need to take a chill pill. Na is a NORMAL part of a fine motor oil so please don't be needlessly alarmed. Read and learn so you will understand. Data here is to inform without marketing bull.

Terry

 

[Jay]

Interesting dilemma. The high sodium found by Blackstone is too consistent to ignore. Maybe there are two formulations of DC marketed regionally: one low-sodium formulation to Ohioans, and a high-sodium formulation to everyone else.

 

[buster]

quote:

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I have literally hundreds of used Mobil Clean 5000 7500 oil analysis from both AV Labs and ExxonMobil labs which indicate low level, 10ppm or less, sodium & potassium

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How can this be? George can you run a spectro on this again? None of this makes any sense.

http://63.240.161.99:8080/bitog/voalibrary/mobil-7500-5w30.jpg

 

[mossad]

Any rebuttals? anyone? going once! going twice!

 

[Cutehumor]

here we go again with someone questioning blackstones accuracy! George, I don't buy that every mobil 5000/7500 UOA posted with large amounts of NA are all coolant leaks! Look at the UOAs, some posted previous oils with up to 5ppm NA, then next oil change went with Mobil 5000 and their UOA was 200 ppm NA!

 

[ToyotaNSaturn]

A clear distinction needs to be made here: Mobil 5000 and 7500 products in the SM specification show NA as an add. The SL formulations don't.

So *ALL* we are discussing here is the SM oils with the higher NA add. George may have hundreds of those UOA's, but I'm willing to wager those are SL based where NA is low.

So nothing is wrong with George's view, or anyone else's view for that matter when the argument is divided between the two formulas.

[ November 13, 2005, 06:59 AM: Message edited by: Patman ]

 

[Basser]

This stuff has gone too far. You guys seen the UOA of supertech 5w30, and how well it held up at almost 6000 miles. Quit splitting hairs, and put that stuff in, save some money and drive your cars. It may not hold up as good in turbos, or a 10000 OCI,but it works good. I'm starting to think the only recourse for some of these people is a counselor. And by the way, I believe that high sodium is a by-product of antimony. You guys remember that stuff that Carpy told you about. He is also the one that got screamed at after he broke the grp III mobil conventional oil news, and got chastised after reporting a lab report that GC was grp III, but all he did was report the same things that Butler, Blackstone, and Terry do. But he was not a siye sponsor.

 

[Bio-T]

Basser/Carpy are the same person. Both user names have the same IP number. And Carpy, you do not have to be a site sponsor to post info. It is appreciated if you would post accurate info though. The GC test that Mobil supposedly ran was way off base. Maybe if you would care to check, we do have a Mobil/Exxon Distributor as a Sponsor.

 

[mossad]

Still trying to read and learn.
I understand that NA is a normal part of any oil to some extent. But, can too much NA cause any problems internally?

 

[ToyotaNSaturn]

Tony, thanks for keeping the pot un-stirred by reporting that info.

 

[GeorgeCLS]

We have had two distinct cases of high sodiuim/potassium of the hundreds of UOA's we have run on Clean 5000 and in both cases they indeed had low level glycol contamination. Chevy V6 and a V8 with classic head gasket issues..
I would be most happy to 'round robin' my sample to another lab for confirmation of the oil from my sample quart.. We 'round robin' blind engine oil samples regularly and Clean 5000 was one of the blinds it turns out.. All 3 labs reported the same low, noise level results for sodium/potassium..
Just let me know where to send the sample and I will get it out this week.....
George Morrison, STLE CLS
AV Lubricants Inc.
Columbus, Ohio
614-492-2000

 

[buster]

George, were these SL or SM formulations though? ToyotaNSaturn made a good point, only recently have the SM versions shown Na.

 

[grbr95]

I understand that NA is a normal part of any oil to some extent. But, can too much NA cause any problems internally?

 

[Blue99]

Mossad/grbr95 - Sodium (NA) is traditionally one of the flags for anti-freeze contamination in an oil sample.

Sodium is not an additive, it shows up in UOA/VOA analysis when an antimony anti-wear additive is in the formulation.

 

[grbr95]

Ok, well then, if NA "does" shoe up when antimony is use... Can too much NA create any problems internally?

 

[GeorgeCLS]

My samples of new oil were Mobil Clkean 5000 SM...... Again, I will be most happy to send samples to any lab that would like to run my Clean 5000 SM samples which returned 0 and 1 respectively from two laboratories..
And as I said before, there are no current ExxonMobil engine oil formulations that contain any levels of sodium and potassium above instrument noise levels.....
Just let me know where to send the samples......
George Morrison, STLE CLS
AV Lubricants Inc.
Columbus, Ohio
614-492-2000

 

[Terry]

Better yet,George select a third party to pull off the shelf DC 5000 and 7500 samples sent to another lab and and have that lab or a third party post the results here so we can nail this down, publicly.

I have seen too many Na added mobil DC oils that have about the same Na level and more as the Castrol GTX line. I suggest that now or during a production run a API SM add pack procured through Lubrizol was utilized.

Is it possible you are seeing bulk DC oils that did not get the real SM/GF4 add pack that was disputed in the lawsuit?

Butler labs, and Blackstone are certainly not both using the same equipement nor do they have an interest in brand promotion. Same as I don't care about brand.

George I have no reason to doubt your outsource lab either. PDMA ?

For those that are worried about using DC oils don't. The formulations are fine with or without Na.

Blue, indeed sodium is a elemental trace of detergent compounds of sodium,calcium,magnesium,phenolates,phosponates,aand sulfonates. These adds chemically react with sludge and varnish precursers to neutralize them and maintain solublility until filtered or drained. Part of what makes the Mobil Drive Clean line "clean". At least that was the idea. I thought?

Terry

[ November 15, 2005, 11:05 PM: Message edited by: Terry ]

 

[buster]

quote:

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I suggest that now or during a production run a API SM add pack procured through Lubrizol was utilized

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I thought Mobil used Infineum as their add supplier?