Mobil Clean 5000 VOA
- Thread starter sully
- Start date
- Status
And again, I am not being defensive due to brand. My joining the discussion was my real world concern about reviewing used engine oil analysis with that level of sodium/potassium in new oil.. And from my experience never having seen those levels of sodium and potassium in new or even used oils unless there truly was a glycol issue. Which is exactly what brought me into this discussion. We had two lab customers whose engine oil analysis reflected elevated sodium/potassium ANd tested for glycol.
One disregarded our suggestion to pressure test the coolant system indicating that this forum indicated that these were normal levels of sodium and potassium for Mobil Clean 5000.. The next oil analysis came back reflecting high wear rates, copper through the roof and higher yet sodium and potassium. Thus the engine experienced a whole round of glycol contamination which could have been minimizd had he followed our suggestion of leak test, exploratory work...
As I indicated in my previous posts, we have fleets using Clean 5000 in sales/delivery vehicles doing oil analysis and I have not seen any level of sodium potassium for USED oil reflecting the levels indicated by the first post on this thread... Except, of course, with the presence of glycol...
George Morrison, STLE CLS
AV Lubricants Inc.
614-492-2000
One disregarded our suggestion to pressure test the coolant system indicating that this forum indicated that these were normal levels of sodium and potassium for Mobil Clean 5000.. The next oil analysis came back reflecting high wear rates, copper through the roof and higher yet sodium and potassium. Thus the engine experienced a whole round of glycol contamination which could have been minimizd had he followed our suggestion of leak test, exploratory work...
As I indicated in my previous posts, we have fleets using Clean 5000 in sales/delivery vehicles doing oil analysis and I have not seen any level of sodium potassium for USED oil reflecting the levels indicated by the first post on this thread... Except, of course, with the presence of glycol...
George Morrison, STLE CLS
AV Lubricants Inc.
614-492-2000
George, agreed. This forum is not to be used as a group think oil analysis interpretation.
However many standard SM add packs are now using add packs that employ among other things sodium ( na) in the levels that approach 250-300 ppm.
I have seen consistent results with DC oils that show this level in clean oils testing.
You are saying na is not used in DC, I am seeing it in clean oil testing from different sources.
If the analyst cannot tell the difference between coolant trace and add pack they need some training or better clean oil baselines to go by.
Terry
However many standard SM add packs are now using add packs that employ among other things sodium ( na) in the levels that approach 250-300 ppm.
I have seen consistent results with DC oils that show this level in clean oils testing.
You are saying na is not used in DC, I am seeing it in clean oil testing from different sources.
If the analyst cannot tell the difference between coolant trace and add pack they need some training or better clean oil baselines to go by.
Terry
Well lets see a recent VOA then! You guys have access to analysis, can either of you run a sample? Send me the big $20 bill.
Talking about it does no good. Grab a SM M500 or 7500 send one to ** labs and the other AVLube. Only way to find out....
I was the one who sent the Mobil 7500 5w-30 and 10w-30 to Butler for the VOA.
They were bought at my local Wal-mart and both were SM and well after the first batches went out.
Lets send some more to whoever and get to the bottom of this if we need to...
(I'll by a quart and send to whoever for my part.. again
)
Take care, Bill
They were bought at my local Wal-mart and both were SM and well after the first batches went out.
Lets send some more to whoever and get to the bottom of this if we need to...
(I'll by a quart and send to whoever for my part.. again
Take care, Bill
Yikes! Continued discussion but I do not detect complaining in our discussions! I would be glad to forward anyone a free analysis kit to anyone or the someone's who submitted the previous high sodium/potassium new oils...
And again, all of our baselines for all of the ExxonMobil engine oils are basically zero for sodium and potassium... Along with literally multiple hundreds of used oil analysis reflecting same..
George Morrison
And again, all of our baselines for all of the ExxonMobil engine oils are basically zero for sodium and potassium... Along with literally multiple hundreds of used oil analysis reflecting same..
George Morrison
"We had two lab customers whose engine oil analysis reflected elevated sodium/potassium ANd tested for glycol.
One disregarded our suggestion to pressure test the coolant system indicating that this forum indicated that these were normal levels of sodium and potassium for Mobil Clean 5000.. The next oil analysis came back reflecting high wear rates, copper through the roof and higher yet sodium and potassium. Thus the engine experienced a whole round of glycol contamination which could have been minimizd had he followed our suggestion of leak test, exploratory work..."
There are a lot of inaccuracies in this statement that I feel I need to correct. I am the customer that questioned the flagging of high sodium to Predictive Maintenance Services after a UOA on Mobil Clean 5000 5w-30 with 4819 miles. Joe at PMS said that he spoke with a "Mobil Distributor" (turned out to be George at AVLube) who claimed that Clean 5000 did not have Na as an additive. I sent two links from this forum showing normal Na levels to be ~200 ppm. There was no suggestion for a "leak test or exploratory work" after the first UOA, only "change oil & filter (if not already done), & resample at normal interval". I commented to Joe at PMS that if the K hadn't been 137, I wouldn't even be concerned about a coolant leak, but this is a GM 3.4L V6, which is notorious for blowing intake gaskets. I didn't think the Na was anything to worry about, but the K was.
The next UOA with 2990 miles on the oil showed iron at 11 (hardly "high wear rates") & copper at 26 (not exactly "through the roof"). It did test positive for glycol, & K had increased to 206. I just got the car (my wife's) back yesterday from the mechanic, who replaced the intake gasket, & hopefully all is well now.
Ironically, I used Mobil Clean 5000 in this engine because I got it free after reading about the "5 free quarts of Mobil Clean 5000" on this forum. And the only reason I did a UOA on this car (I do regular UOAs on my diesel pick-up) is because I found out here at BITOG that GM 3.4 V6s like to blow intake gaskets. It turns out that Clean 5000 isn't exactly a good oil to use if you're relying on a UOA to detect a coolant leak.
BTW, I'm not trying to make George look bad or call him a liar. He is very helpful with interpreting UOAs & he is an asset to this & other forums. But I cannot find a single UOA or VOA of Mobil Clean 5000 or 7500 on this forum that doesn't have at least 165 ppm of Na.
Flame suit on & firmly zipped!
One disregarded our suggestion to pressure test the coolant system indicating that this forum indicated that these were normal levels of sodium and potassium for Mobil Clean 5000.. The next oil analysis came back reflecting high wear rates, copper through the roof and higher yet sodium and potassium. Thus the engine experienced a whole round of glycol contamination which could have been minimizd had he followed our suggestion of leak test, exploratory work..."
There are a lot of inaccuracies in this statement that I feel I need to correct. I am the customer that questioned the flagging of high sodium to Predictive Maintenance Services after a UOA on Mobil Clean 5000 5w-30 with 4819 miles. Joe at PMS said that he spoke with a "Mobil Distributor" (turned out to be George at AVLube) who claimed that Clean 5000 did not have Na as an additive. I sent two links from this forum showing normal Na levels to be ~200 ppm. There was no suggestion for a "leak test or exploratory work" after the first UOA, only "change oil & filter (if not already done), & resample at normal interval". I commented to Joe at PMS that if the K hadn't been 137, I wouldn't even be concerned about a coolant leak, but this is a GM 3.4L V6, which is notorious for blowing intake gaskets. I didn't think the Na was anything to worry about, but the K was.
The next UOA with 2990 miles on the oil showed iron at 11 (hardly "high wear rates") & copper at 26 (not exactly "through the roof"). It did test positive for glycol, & K had increased to 206. I just got the car (my wife's) back yesterday from the mechanic, who replaced the intake gasket, & hopefully all is well now.
Ironically, I used Mobil Clean 5000 in this engine because I got it free after reading about the "5 free quarts of Mobil Clean 5000" on this forum. And the only reason I did a UOA on this car (I do regular UOAs on my diesel pick-up) is because I found out here at BITOG that GM 3.4 V6s like to blow intake gaskets. It turns out that Clean 5000 isn't exactly a good oil to use if you're relying on a UOA to detect a coolant leak.
BTW, I'm not trying to make George look bad or call him a liar. He is very helpful with interpreting UOAs & he is an asset to this & other forums. But I cannot find a single UOA or VOA of Mobil Clean 5000 or 7500 on this forum that doesn't have at least 165 ppm of Na.
Flame suit on & firmly zipped!
George, If you want to send it to me, I'll go and get a new quart of Mobil (what would you like? 5000 or 7500?) and get it to you ASAP.
Let me know either here or PM...
Take care, bill
PS: I even still have a few quarts from the same batch that I sent to Butler in my stash...
Ok guys...I admit it, I don't understand all the lingo here. I've read a lot, but I don't have the background some of you have, so I'm sorry for being so naive.
Heres my deal, both my vehicles do NOT have coolant leaks of any sort, engine seals are all in good shape.
Should I have stuck with the Castrol GTX conventional I've been using over the Mobil Clean 5000? Or, to anyone knowledge, does one of these nudge out the other in any way with regard to base stocks, add packes, etc..???
Heres my deal, both my vehicles do NOT have coolant leaks of any sort, engine seals are all in good shape.
Should I have stuck with the Castrol GTX conventional I've been using over the Mobil Clean 5000? Or, to anyone knowledge, does one of these nudge out the other in any way with regard to base stocks, add packes, etc..???
grbr95, this site is about using oil analysis to verify and use SPIN FREE data to make good decisions for your car. Continue to use Mobil DC 5000 in it. Monitor the Coolant levels like a hawk and at least annually get a oil analysis from a reputable lab and get it interpreted by a analyst that knows what he is seeing in the data.
Keep on learning and enjoy the benefits of science over marketing.
Sincerely, Terry
Keep on learning and enjoy the benefits of science over marketing.
Sincerely, Terry
Wyandot regarding your:
"BTW, I'm not trying to make George look bad or call him a liar. He is very helpful with interpreting UOAs & he is an asset to this & other forums. But I cannot find a single UOA or VOA of Mobil Clean 5000 or 7500 on this forum that doesn't have at least 165 ppm of Na."
You obviously failed to read my posting of a recent Clean 5000 SM which reported a NA of 2 and a potassium of 1...
I will be most happy to e-mail you the full analysis result if you wish.
I have only seen two Clean 5000 USED oil analysis containing that level of sodium and both were Chevrolet engines and both had gasket issues..
BTW, I was not referring to your instance but another other case where our glycol alert was disregarded resulting in catastrophic engine failure...
So, yes, there IS a single VOA on this site reporting very low (representative) levels of sodium and potassium for Mobil Clean 5000.
Please go back and read the complete thread as I have shared quite a bit of data regarding Clean 5000....
Continued........
George Morrison, STLE CLS
AV Lubricants Inc.
Columbus, Ohio
614-492-2000
"BTW, I'm not trying to make George look bad or call him a liar. He is very helpful with interpreting UOAs & he is an asset to this & other forums. But I cannot find a single UOA or VOA of Mobil Clean 5000 or 7500 on this forum that doesn't have at least 165 ppm of Na."
You obviously failed to read my posting of a recent Clean 5000 SM which reported a NA of 2 and a potassium of 1...
I will be most happy to e-mail you the full analysis result if you wish.
I have only seen two Clean 5000 USED oil analysis containing that level of sodium and both were Chevrolet engines and both had gasket issues..
BTW, I was not referring to your instance but another other case where our glycol alert was disregarded resulting in catastrophic engine failure...
So, yes, there IS a single VOA on this site reporting very low (representative) levels of sodium and potassium for Mobil Clean 5000.
Please go back and read the complete thread as I have shared quite a bit of data regarding Clean 5000....
Continued........
George Morrison, STLE CLS
AV Lubricants Inc.
Columbus, Ohio
614-492-2000
George, I was told by Mobil today that both Mobil 5000 and 7500 contain Na as an additive and that myself and others were concerned about coolant leaks. I told him I was seeing as well as others 200+ppm of Na in these reports and was concerned.
Hmmm, I talked with ExxonMobil tech support today, also, and Lucile in total agreement with my statement that Mobil 5000 and 7500 do not contain any measurable level of sodium or potassium as part of their additive packages. AND, as my VOA oil analysis results indicate, a 0 and a 2 is pretty darned close to zero, nada, zinch...
Again, I offer freely to send a sample to any lab and as I have indicated we have done round robins with Clean 5000 and all samples came back with the zero to noise level sodium and potassium...... And, as I have indicated, I have reviewed literally hundreds (100's!) of used oil analysis with these oils and no sodium potassium past noise OR true alert due to glycol have been reported. THis is about a 100 times more analysis for 5000 than have been reported here..... By two different labs........
George Morrison, STLE CLS
Again, I offer freely to send a sample to any lab and as I have indicated we have done round robins with Clean 5000 and all samples came back with the zero to noise level sodium and potassium...... And, as I have indicated, I have reviewed literally hundreds (100's!) of used oil analysis with these oils and no sodium potassium past noise OR true alert due to glycol have been reported. THis is about a 100 times more analysis for 5000 than have been reported here..... By two different labs........
George Morrison, STLE CLS
- Status
Similar threads
