Mobil 1FS 0W40, Honda Civic Type R FK2 , 2279km racetrack

[CarfriendXX]

Mobil ESP LV 0W30 will be good, too. But Here is now good seller for this oil …

 

[CarfriendXX]

Why aren't many people enthusiastic about amsoil here? Seen from the data sheet, it seems to be top. Is there little long-term experience with the Signature Series here?

 

[RDY4WAR]

Amsoil has some interest here. There's a handful using it, one regularly posts UOAs with >600k miles. We also have an Amsoil dealer here in @Pablo. Some people (including here) have issues with their multi-level marketing (MLM) sales system as it resembles a pyramid scheme.

 

[CarfriendXX]

I am more interested in the quality of amsoil's engine oil. The UOA I saw from amsoil were mostly great. The question is whether you can trust the oils for search objects, things, seals and cokings because they have no approvals.

 

[OVERKILL]

I am more interested in the quality of amsoil's engine oil. The UOA I saw from amsoil were mostly great. The question is whether you can trust the oils for search objects, things, seals and cokings because they have no approvals.

AMSOIL works with some of the most respected additive suppliers in the business, like Lubrizol. I wouldn't have too much concern about the quality of the products. Whether you can justify spending the money is another matter. I buy some of their products where I think they are a good value or make sense/are the best offering (like their oil filters).

 

[RDY4WAR]

I am more interested in the quality of amsoil's engine oil. The UOA I saw from amsoil were mostly great. The question is whether you can trust the oils for search objects, things, seals and cokings because they have no approvals.

They don't have approvals because they won't move enough volume to break even on the massive cost to get those approvals. The way the system is setup for approvals makes it very difficult to do anything outside of the box. About the only way to get an approval is for an additive company to put together an additive package and formula to pass it. They take on that massive cost. Then companies like Mobil 1, Castrol, and Valvoline purchase those approved add packs, blend it to the formula used for the approval, slap a sticker on it, and send it out the door.

Amsoil also purchases that add pack, but the performance is often subpar for their standard. Take Porsche A40 for example, which has no interchange for group IV and V base oils, so most A40 approved oils are group III with a 50-70 SSI VII. They're forced into that small box. For someone like Amsoil, that wants to use better quality base oils like PAOs and esters, along with top treatment to improve friction reduction, oxidation resistance, and wear protection, they can't use the approval from the add pack because they've deviated from the formula. Even though that deviation is a big improvement on that formula, it doesn't matter. If Amsoil wanted to get that approval, they'd have to fork out the dough to have that 203 hour engine test and teardown done just for their own formula. If they later found a better additive, something to improve on the formula further, they'd have to get that testing done all over again to make that adjustment. That's just 1 approval. They would easily pass that test with flying colors, but it's not financially feasible for them to fork out six figures for an approval.

If you are looking at companies like Amsoil, HPL, Red Line, etc..., you have get your mind off the approvals. It comes down to how much you trust the company. You have to look at their reputation.

 

[CarfriendXX]

Here in Germany I can buy a bottle for 12€, with a little discount I get it for 10€. If I look at the other price increases like this, this is a good course. At the honda dealer you want to have 26€ per litre for the 0W20. I think that's absolutely too much. So would your recommendation also go to amsoil? Very low noack values as well as super additive package and very good analysis results would speak in favour of Amsoil.

 

[CarfriendXX]

So it can generally be said that amsoil uses very good base oils and additives of quality. However, you have to see for yourself whether the price-performance ratio suits you, correct? I had also read once that amsoil has "only recommendations" because you do not want to reveal the mixture of the oil.

 

[RDY4WAR]

So it can generally be said that amsoil uses very good base oils and additives of quality. However, you have to see for yourself whether the price-performance ratio suits you, correct? I had also read once that amsoil has "only recommendations" because you do not want to reveal the mixture of the oil.

Correct. It comes down to how well you trust the company and if you feel the performance advantage is worth it for you.

They don't want to reveal their formula for obvious reasons.

 

[CarfriendXX]

Since I have always trusted mobile 1 so far, it is difficult to get used to. However, the amsoil is very modern in terms of formulation, which simply makes it a super oil. I'm kind of torn back and forth, but I would like to try something new, especially with my Type r, especially because of the direct injection and the tendency to coking of some oils.

 

[OVERKILL]

They don't have approvals because they won't move enough volume to break even on the massive cost to get those approvals. The way the system is setup for approvals makes it very difficult to do anything outside of the box. About the only way to get an approval is for an additive company to put together an additive package and formula to pass it. They take on that massive cost. Then companies like Mobil 1, Castrol, and Valvoline purchase those approved add packs, blend it to the formula used for the approval, slap a sticker on it, and send it out the door.

Amsoil also purchases that add pack, but the performance is often subpar for their standard. Take Porsche A40 for example, which has no interchange for group IV and V base oils, so most A40 approved oils are group III with a 50-70 SSI VII. They're forced into that small box. For someone like Amsoil, that wants to use better quality base oils like PAOs and esters, along with top treatment to improve friction reduction, oxidation resistance, and wear protection, they can't use the approval from the add pack because they've deviated from the formula. Even though that deviation is a big improvement on that formula, it doesn't matter. If Amsoil wanted to get that approval, they'd have to fork out the dough to have that 203 hour engine test and teardown done just for their own formula. If they later found a better additive, something to improve on the formula further, they'd have to get that testing done all over again to make that adjustment. That's just 1 approval. They would easily pass that test with flying colors, but it's not financially feasible for them to fork out six figures for an approval.

If you are looking at companies like Amsoil, HPL, Red Line, etc..., you have get your mind off the approvals. It comes down to how much you trust the company. You have to look at their reputation.

Amusingly, AMSOIL does sell an A40 lube, their 5W-40 EFM:

But, if we look at the pour point, -39? No PAO there. So, likely your cookie cutter Afton/Lubrizol 5W-40 Euro additive package that comes "pre-approved".

One thing I've noticed is that for the pre-approved additive packages, most, if not all of them, exclude 0W-40. If you look at the EFO, -51C point point, definitely PAO. Ravenol SSL 0W-40, which is formally approved, is clearly PAO-based as well. M1 0W-40 and Castrol 0W-40 are both blended with PAO and have wildly different looking additive packages. So, I suspect as you've alluded to, for the 0W-40's, you have to manually have the product approved, and that's going to be expensive. It does however mean that these oils will be less generic by virtue of that fact.

 

[RDY4WAR]

Amusingly, AMSOIL does sell an A40 lube, their 5W-40 EFM:
View attachment 117545
But, if we look at the pour point, -39? No PAO there. So, likely your cookie cutter Afton/Lubrizol 5W-40 Euro additive package that comes "pre-approved".

One thing I've noticed is that for the pre-approved additive packages, most, if not all of them, exclude 0W-40. If you look at the EFO, -51C point point, definitely PAO. Ravenol SSL 0W-40, which is formally approved, is clearly PAO-based as well. M1 0W-40 and Castrol 0W-40 are both blended with PAO and have wildly different looking additive packages. So, I suspect as you've alluded to, for the 0W-40's, you have to manually have the product approved, and that's going to be expensive. It does however mean that these oils will be less generic by virtue of that fact.

I didn't realize they had an actual approval. As you mentioned though, it appears to be formulated to that small box.

 

[CarfriendXX]

Of these, only certain oils may be named fully synthetically in Germany. It must consist of at least 70 percent PAO or contain esters. The problem is that certain official releases with this basis are not available or you cannot meet the requirements with it and have to take hydrocracked based products. The fact that this works well shows, among other things, mobile 1, which are actually in no way inferior to the fully synthetic products. But with amsoil, the uoa as well as the low evaporation and the additive with molybdenum convince me to a tolerable extent.
Rowe also has good products but no "real" releases. Precisely because these oils are fully synthetic according to German law. Ravenol has good products on paper but the prices bring me no added value. Many in Germany praise the products, for me you can't do more than others and sometimes shine with slumps in the viscosity, exactly what the new USVO technology is supposed to prevent. Unfortunately, a lot of marketing for me. I find the additive of amsoil absolutely up to date and therefore very modern. Should I or should I not be there is the question for me.

 

[Oliveoil2]

0w20 is your friend. Won’t mater what brand with your oci schedule.

 

[CarfriendXX]

What 0W20 will be the best?

 

[02zx9r rev2]

I have a UOA posted of Amsoil XL 0W20 in my wife’s 2015 Altima, little over 8K miles. Granted it’s not a racer like your civic, and she drives like a 53 yo woman does….

But the uoa came back well. DNewton remarked that it showed good wear, low contamination, and strong tbn retention.

 

[CarfriendXX]

Do others also have good experiences or UOA?

 

[edyvw]

Amusingly, AMSOIL does sell an A40 lube, their 5W-40 EFM:
View attachment 117545
But, if we look at the pour point, -39? No PAO there. So, likely your cookie cutter Afton/Lubrizol 5W-40 Euro additive package that comes "pre-approved".

One thing I've noticed is that for the pre-approved additive packages, most, if not all of them, exclude 0W-40. If you look at the EFO, -51C point point, definitely PAO. Ravenol SSL 0W-40, which is formally approved, is clearly PAO-based as well. M1 0W-40 and Castrol 0W-40 are both blended with PAO and have wildly different looking additive packages. So, I suspect as you've alluded to, for the 0W-40's, you have to manually have the product approved, and that's going to be expensive. It does however mean that these oils will be less generic by virtue of that fact.

Let’s just be clear that actual approval is cheap. It is development that is expensive.
When I was working on this, VW charged us 3,200 euros for VW504.00/507.00 approval. That was though 16 years ago. It is probably more expensive now, but not that much. I posted somewhere here document that VW sent to company I worked for with statement of approval and bill.

 

[RDY4WAR]

Let’s just be clear that actual approval is cheap. It is development that is expensive.
When I was working on this, VW charged us 3,200 euros for VW504.00/507.00 approval. That was though 16 years ago. It is probably more expensive now, but not that much. I posted somewhere here document that VW sent to company I worked for with statement of approval and bill.

There's no way it was only €3,200. They would've spent way more than that on just fuel for the engine testing plus the man hours, cost of the engines, analysis, etc... Are you sure it wasn't €32,000? Even that sounds low.

 

[edyvw]

There's no way it was only €3,200. They would've spent way more than that on just fuel for the engine testing plus the man hours, cost of the engines, analysis, etc... Are you sure it wasn't €32,000? Even that sounds low.

I posted it here. Will try to find it again. It was 3,200 euros. This notion that it is too expensive is pushed by some blenders as explaining why they are not doing it is too complex.
If it was 32,000 euros there is no way this company could swing it. Point of approvals is not to be prohibitively expensive, but to tell owners whether oil is appropriate or not. There is nothing nefarious about it.