Mobil 1 auto oils in motorcycles (moly and clutch slip)

[DNS]

Because of some favorable oil analysises using the new Mobil 1 supersyn, I began to wonder if the new formulation of their 15W50 was still suitable for use in motorcycles sharing a common oil source with a wet clutch and tranmission. I sent them an email and their response was as follows:

>Mobil1 15W50 and 0W40 should not be use in wet >clutch applications due friction modifiers in >the motor oil because of the new API service >rating of "SL". You would have to use the >motorcycle motor oils to ensure that you do not >have any wet clutch problems.

Interestingly enough, the author of Motorcycle Motor Oil at tp://www.yft.org/tex_vfr/tech/oil.htm states that he was assured by Mobil that it was suitable.

From the virgin analysis I've seen, the only additional friction modifier is a bit of moly. This hardly seems to be enough to cause clutch slippage. And if it is, what about the people using Redline in their wet clutch bikes? Generally only the "energy conserving" oils (which the new supersyn 15W50 is not)have caused problems with wet clutches.

Anyone care to share their thoughts about this?

 

[richard612]

It's all overblown. I've run probably a dozen different oils in my KLR, three or four in my ZR, and three of four in my GF's CBR, and we've never had a clutch slip. Or wear out.

In fact, her CBR has SuperSyn 15W-50 in it right now. It's doing great.

 

[DNS]

I wonder if the tech support rep I've really knows what he's talking about. A response to a follow-on email to him said that "all grades of motor oil have to meet the more demanding requirement of the new API SL for better fuel economy" and "friction modifiers were increased". According to another source, the heavier viscosities such as 10W40 and 15W50 did not have any fuel economy requirements placed on them by the SL standard.

[ August 30, 2002, 02:00 PM: Message edited by: DNS ]

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

quote:

---

Originally posted by DNS:
I wonder if the tech support rep I've really knows what he's talking about. A response to a follow-on email to him said that "all grades of motor oil have to meet the more demanding requirement of the new API SL for better fuel economy" and "friction modifiers were increased". According to another source, the heavier viscosities such as 10W40 and 15W50 did not have any fuel economy requirements placed on them by the SL standard.

---

certain moly's will not do anything to clutches..
Another point is not all oils have moly.
and the new SL api spec did not require higher levels of antiwear/fm's. If anything, they may have reduced some of the levels and some changed over to a newer type using the mo.

[ August 30, 2002, 03:56 PM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]

 

[GeorgeCLS]

The Mobil 1 MX4-T 10W-40 motorcycle oil and Mobil 1 15W-50 do not contain friction modifiers thus either can be used in the wet clutch application with the MX4-T being optimal, of course..
George Morrison

 

[DNS]

quote:

---

Originally posted by GeorgeCLS:
The Mobil 1 MX4-T 10W-40 motorcycle oil and Mobil 1 15W-50 do not contain friction modifiers thus either can be used in the wet clutch application with the MX4-T being optimal, of course..
George Morrison

---

The Mobil tech support guy claims the SL 15W50 does contain friction modifiers. Maybe he's referring to the small amount of moly.

 

[Jay]

I agree with richard612. It is overblown. I've used Mobil 1 10w-30 in my Honda VFR with no trouble. I used their 30 weight oil because my transmission shifts better with the 30 weight.

I've never actually heard of anybody having clutch slippage problems with friction modified automotive oil.

 

[VaderSS]

Personally, I think Mobil wants to sell their M/C oil...

 

[DNS]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jay:

I've never actually heard of anybody having clutch slippage problems with friction modified automotive oil.

---

There have been several posters on rec.motorcycles that have had problems with "energy conserving" friction modified auto oil although there also posters who have not had a problem.

 

[DNS]

quote:

---

Originally posted by BOBISTHEOILGUY:
certain moly's will not do anything to clutches..
Another point is not all oils have moly.
and the new SL api spec did not require higher levels of antiwear/fm's. If anything, they may have reduced some of the levels and some changed over to a newer type using the mo.

---

The mobil tech I've been having email correspondence with seems to classify friction modifiers and antiwear additives as different things as he stated "Mobil1 15W50 is not recommended any longer because zinc and phosphorous levels were decreased and friction modifiers were increased" in regards to why it is no longer reccommend for bike use. The only additional friction modifier that I see in the 15W50 supersyn that was not in the tri-synth is a small amount of moly.

This makes me wonder, do "energy conserving" oils have some friction modifier chemistry that is not in oils that are not "energy conserving" or do they simply have more of the same additives?

 

[dragboat]

The Suzuki branded 4 cycle engine oil contains moly,alot of talk about it at the bandit site,not about the moly though,the oil burning engines.Last I read they have switched to something that helps,been a while so I have forgotten

One of the Bandit gurus that has his own shop and website sells and promotes that XR1 additive

IMO. But my opinion is not because of the clutches

[ August 30, 2002, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: dragboat ]

 

[Jay]

I think Mobil 1 has been guilty of quite a bit of doublespeak in regard to motorcycle use of their automotive oils. Before they introduced their own motorcycle oil, Mobil claimed that their automotive oils were more shear-stable than the specialty motorcycle oils. A test by MCN magazine backed those claims.

Then the SJ oils came out with reduced zinc and phosphorous and FM's but Mobil 1 still claimed their automotive oils were just fine for motorcycles and superior to most of the specialty oils.

Then Mobil introduced their motorcycle oils at a fat $8.+ per quart and all of a sudden their automotive oils are no good for bikes.

 

[DNS]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jay:

Then Mobil introduced their motorcycle oils at a fat $8.+ per quart and all of a sudden their automotive oils are no good for bikes.

---

After they introduced their motorcycle oils and while their auto 15W50 was still SJ rated, they still claimed that the 15W50 was suitable for use in four stroke motorcycle engines. They changed their story when their auto oil became SL rated.

 

[RoadKingRider]

FWIW - Triumph motorcycles recommend M1 15W50 in their motorcycles.

[ September 06, 2002, 06:35 PM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]

 

[FowVay]

I have logged well over 150,000 accumulated miles on my last three street bikes and have used nothing but 10w-40 regular car engine oil with zero problems whatsoever. I even run the oil for 5000 miles. I currently ride a Kawasaki ZX11 and use Amsoil 10w-40 and have no clutch slippage problems of any kind. This engine is well capable of burning the clutch up if it wants to but even with the synthetic 10w-40 I have no problems. I personally stay away from oils listed as "energy saving" or similar words.

 

[MolaKule]

"The Mobil tech support guy claims the SL 15W50 does contain friction modifiers. Maybe he's referring to the small amount of moly."

ZDDP and Moly are both FM/AW additives.

Maybe the rep was referring to the new esters found in Mobil 1 and Delvac 1.

 

[oiloverflow]

While looking for online distributors of Mobil 1 I found this interesting article. It's few years old but still interesting.

http://www.xs11.com/stories/mcnoil94.htm

 

[badnews]

Interestingly enough, the author of Motorcycle Motor Oil at tp://www.yft.org/tex_vfr/tech/oil.htm states that he was assured by Mobil that it was suitable.

More and more they seem to be telling people what they think they want to hear, instead of giving them the straight skinny.

 

[Steve S]

I remember this article .Seems to prove that with less viscosity improvers in the syn oils leads to a more stable oil "duh". Seems we mistake the moly in the oil for the disulfide type. So many people run Redline oil with out clutch problems .Redline is the king of moly oils.Butwhat about friction modifid oils?

 

[blano]

For years I have used and continue to use mobil 1 15w50 in my bikes without any issues. The whole fristion mod causing clip slippage is way over blown and is by no menas a universal issue that spans accross all bikes. FWIW the bikes I have ran it in are Yamaha and Honda dirtbikes and Kawasaki street bikes.