Mobil 1 and grp III continued.

[JimKJSVT]

I don't think so. ESP stands for emissions system protection.
Delvac 1 AKA Turbo Diesel Truck 5w40 is highly regarded. Other than European Car formula, what from above list is commonly available in the US? I'm sure there are some oils that would meet Euro specs that haven't bothered to be tested.

 

[Lonnie]

Most people I know that care what they put in their or customer's engines bailed on M1 years ago. It never performed up to snuff if you took a close look at engine wear. The UOA's were pointing that way but few understood the message. A couple of fleets changed from Mobil 1 to Chevron Supreme Synthetic, a GIII oil, and got better results for half the price. Their choice was driven by lab results and economics, not advertising. You don't see many race cars with a Chevron Supreme sticker. If everyone here is still kicking Mobil 1 around, it's just proof that Mobil 1 marketing is very good, and it's effected a lot of bitog members. Otherwise Mobil would be dropped as a product of interest and we could go back to bashing something else.

 

[pastmaster]

This all reminds me of the GM Fiasco when they put Chevrolet engines into Oldsmobiles, without telling the customer nor adjusting the price of the car accordingly.

The Bean-counters will kill you every time!

 

[Auto-Union]

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The recent HT-06 test tells me M1 is still excellent surpassing all the other retail brands.

If they keep the performance the same by using Group III, why not then?

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Other brands passed the Honda test too, Pennzoil Platinum for instance, and it's still a very new test.

Deopsit control in turbos would be a major area of concern for many Mobil 1 users.

Two things we have seen come along with the supposed Mobil 1 downgrade. One is the miles-specific EP formula and the HT-06 test. Maybe they are CYA measures in case their secret got out.

I don't think people would really have cared about M1's G-III jump if they had not caused so much ruckus when Castrol did the same thing and it would have more acceptable if they were forthcoming about it. In my experince, people who were bitter toward Castrol after they ~pubicly~ went G-III are a hard-headed lot and they are not likely to firgive Mobil at all. Maybe an even more severe position is justified in this case!
Sure like Buster said, price/performace is the ultimate goal, but is the customer also an entitled to expect a progress of technology where you get a BETTER product for the same price. Now, as I remember...Mobil 1 has gone UP in price. Hmm.

 

[ekpolk]

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Evolution is a term that should not be underestimated in this discussion.

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An excellent point. I'd add that it's equally clear, to me anyway, that the term "synthetic" itself is equally overestimated. It has almost totally sucked dry of meaning by these hide-the-ball shenanigans. We're now to the point at which so many widely different products fall under the "synthetic" umbrella that there's no way to tell what's meant when someone says "synthetic," unless we're given (or can find) more info.

For myself, I'm abandoning the term altogether. I'll look for the type of oil I think I need, and if I can't tell with some certainty what's in the bottle, even if it says "synthetic," I'll just pass on it.

At this point, my "pass" category includes Mobil-1 too. . .

 

[buster]

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Other brands passed the Honda test too, Pennzoil Platinum for instance, and it's still a very new test.

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The other oils didn't do all that well in that test. Mobil 1 showed no deposits at all while only 1 or 2 of the others barely passed this test.

 

[goodvibes]

I doubt that silly graph includes all the oils tested or is a linear representation of the results. Not leaving deposits is different than not breaking down. I suspect that the AN is very good at dispersing varnish. I wonder how GC would do in that test do. I bet Schaefers 7000 blend could pass. Maybe any SM oil with LC could pass.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

That's the way I see it. What do we know about said test? Nothing thus far.

 

[BradC]

Has it been pinned down yet when the formulation apparently changed?

 

[buster]

I have no doubts others will meet/pass this test and you're right, we don't know the specifics of it. I've said for awhile though, and still firmly believe, that a good Synthetic oil will differentiate itself not from "noise floor" wear metals, but deposits and engine cleanliness which is NOT dectected by a $20 UOA. Only a guy like Terry could probably interpret that.

I'm not going to sit here and cry over XOM's move to Group III though. It's normal business to try and make money. It's called capitalism. Where Mobil could have done better is be more forthcoming about it all but as I've said, are the others any better? IMO, NO.

 

[JAG]

FTIR and some other tests can tell how deposit-prone the oil is. Even if people started paying for TAN in UOAs, they'd know a lot more about their oil's condition. TBN isn't enough and some don't even get that. Here's some info: http://www.practicingoilanalysis.com/art...oup=Lubrication

 

[427Z06]

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It's normal business to try and make money. It's called capitalism. Where Mobil could have done better is be more forthcoming about it all but as I've said, are the others any better? IMO, NO.

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Others don't have websites that state only majority (~70%) PAO products should be considerd the only true synthetics.

I also take issue with the theory that capitalism simply means to make as much money as possible. Capitalism depends on competition, and competition depends on information. Perfectly competitive equilibrium requires perfect information. Ignorance leads to errors that put the ideal state of equilibrium out of reach.

In short, bamboozling is anti-capitalism.

 

[jsharp]

I've been gone for a while and have been trying to catch up on all the assorted M1 threads so excuse me if this has been mentioned already -

How is XOM handling european labeling requirements with these now majorly GIII oils? It's my understanding that ols labeled "synthetic" in europe need to be GIV or GV and HC or GIII oils need to be labeled as such and aren't considered "synthetic" there.

So are there new product labels on the oils sold in europe now or are they getting different formulations than we do in the US? Anyone know?

 

[buster]

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In economics, information asymmetry occurs when one party to a transaction has more or better information than the other party. (It has also been called asymmetrical information). Typically it is the seller that knows more about the product than the buyer, however, it is possible for the reverse to be true: for the buyer to know more than the seller.

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427 I agree 100%.

Their is no question XOM was caught with their pants down. They were EXPOSED big time. I firmly believe that they have been using Group III in the mix for quite some time. I don't fully trust large corp. like XOM. However, being M1 is factory fill for so many high end cars and it is their flagship product, it has to be good. It doesn't mean we have to support it though and I do see why many part company with them on that issue alone.

It's obvious if you read most of my posts that I've always been a fan of M1. I think, at one time at least, it was the best oil on the market all things considered. I do not believe that to be the case at this point. I still think it's a good product for Turbos and extended drains. But it is really overkill in most applications and could also be a tad better in the wear department. I'm not about to spend my money though on other brands that use lame marketing as well.

 

[427Z06]

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I'm not about to spend my money though on other brands that use lame marketing as well.

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Well...I guess most of are our choices are lame marketeers or sneaky bamboozlers. What's left...MLM? Please, shoot me now and put me out of my misery.

 

[buster]

Yeah good point. I guess you're right. Nothing else to really chose from.

Havoline doesn't bother me.

 

[abimanyu]

Too bad Motul,Agip,Shell Ultra,ELF Solara and the such arent' widely available OTC in the U.S....So I guess if I want the former quality of Mobil 1, I'll have to settle for Redline OTC synthetic.

 

[buster]

abi, Amsoil is very high quality as well.

 

[G-MAN]

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How is XOM handling european labeling requirements with these now majorly GIII oils? It's my understanding that ols labeled "synthetic" in europe need to be GIV or GV and HC or GIII oils need to be labeled as such and aren't considered "synthetic" there.

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I don't think there are any EU-wide laws that require this. It's more of a "gentleman's agreement" among the various oil companies as to how they are going to label the different oils. And some don't abide by the agreement. Example: Shell Helix Ultra 5w40 is primarily a Group III and it's labeled a full synthetic.

 

[jsharp]

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How is XOM handling european labeling requirements with these now majorly GIII oils? It's my understanding that ols labeled "synthetic" in europe need to be GIV or GV and HC or GIII oils need to be labeled as such and aren't considered "synthetic" there.

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I don't think there are any EU-wide laws that require this. It's more of a "gentleman's agreement" among the various oil companies as to how they are going to label the different oils. And some don't abide by the agreement. Example: Shell Helix Ultra 5w40 is primarily a Group III and it's labeled a full synthetic.

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Ok, that makes sense. I wasn't aware of any GIII oils being sold in europe and labeled as "synthetic."