saw M1 5W-40 at local Kragen autoparts (southern california) today, it comes in the same bottle as regular M1, but has some extra large yellow lettering stating "Truck and SUV". I'm running M1 0W-40 now, but will switch to this supposed relabeled Delvac 1 at next change. BTW, the 5W-40 was $6 a quart at Kragen's.
Mobil 1 5W-40 "Truck/SUV" at local Kragen autoparts
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Hopefully someone who spots this oil will send off a sample for VOA so we can see if it is indeed Delvac 1 or a totally new formulation.
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I just came back from my local Kragen, and they had it, too. $4.99 plus tax per quart. They said it came in last week. Here is what's on the bottle:
API SL/SJ, CI-4/CH-4/CG-4/CF-4-CF
Recommended for hard-working diesel powered pickup trucks and SUVs built by Ford, GM, GMC, and Dodge.
- Meets the engine requiremnts of Cummins, Powerstroke, Duramax and Navistar
On top of the bottle it says it works also for gas engines.
Hmm, it's for US makes. I thought those were all going for thinner oil now? What gives all of a sudden?
API SL/SJ, CI-4/CH-4/CG-4/CF-4-CF
Recommended for hard-working diesel powered pickup trucks and SUVs built by Ford, GM, GMC, and Dodge.
- Meets the engine requiremnts of Cummins, Powerstroke, Duramax and Navistar
On top of the bottle it says it works also for gas engines.
Hmm, it's for US makes. I thought those were all going for thinner oil now? What gives all of a sudden?
saw it here in stanwood, wash. at Shuck's for the same price as all the other mobil 1, $4.99qt.
I believe CAFE requirements don't apply to trucks!quote:
Originally posted by moribundman:
Hmm, it's for US makes. I thought those were all going for thinner oil now? What gives all of a sudden?
At $5/quart this is a very good deal, if this is indeed relabeled Delvac 1!
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Hey Rallyfan, no, there's no ACEA rating on the bottle.
I doubt it's re-labelled D1. D1 has the following approvals:
API CI-4/CH-4/CG-4/CF-4/CF/SL/SJ
ACEA E5/E4/E3
JASO DH-1
Global DHD-1
Detroit Diesel (4-stroke) DDC 7SE270
Caterpillar ECF-1
Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40 has the following builder approvals:
Mack EO-M, EO-M Plus, EO-N Premium Plus
Cummins CES 20078/77/76/75
Volvo VDS-3, VDS-2
Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40 is recommended for use in applications requiring:
Cummins CES 20072/71
Renault RVI RXD
I'm not sure what to make of the new M1 Truck and SUV 5W-40.
Both, D1 5W-40 and M1 Truckand SUV 5W-40 are rated CI-H, which is the latest diesel spec until it will be replaced in '06. I hope we will get to see a spec sheet for the M1 5W-40!
[ January 29, 2004, 12:07 AM: Message edited by: moribundman ]
I doubt it's re-labelled D1. D1 has the following approvals:
API CI-4/CH-4/CG-4/CF-4/CF/SL/SJ
ACEA E5/E4/E3
JASO DH-1
Global DHD-1
Detroit Diesel (4-stroke) DDC 7SE270
Caterpillar ECF-1
Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40 has the following builder approvals:
Mack EO-M, EO-M Plus, EO-N Premium Plus
Cummins CES 20078/77/76/75
Volvo VDS-3, VDS-2
Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40 is recommended for use in applications requiring:
Cummins CES 20072/71
Renault RVI RXD
I'm not sure what to make of the new M1 Truck and SUV 5W-40.
Both, D1 5W-40 and M1 Truckand SUV 5W-40 are rated CI-H, which is the latest diesel spec until it will be replaced in '06. I hope we will get to see a spec sheet for the M1 5W-40!
[ January 29, 2004, 12:07 AM: Message edited by: moribundman ]
First of all, CI-4 is the newest HD diesel engine oil spec. It's designed for HD diesel engines that thanks to EPA-mandated controls now require EGR systems.
The biggest problem running EGR in a large 6 cylinder diesel motor is the massive soot you introduce back into the motor. The CI-4 is reformulated with extra detergents to help control the soot.
CH-4 is a slightly older spec that also is supposed to deal with EPA-mandated emissions redesign, primarily the design of the piston. This is an extension of the first such controls from the early 90's.
The piston is redesigned to reduce blow-by and particulates that used to shoot out the stack. This is done by moving the ring land area, especially the Top Grove, much closer to the top of the piston, the crown land.
The Top Grove compression ring now sees much higher temps than it used to. As a result, a weaker oil can break down and create carbon/sludge/varnish deposits in the Top Grove.
Eventually, the Top Grove compression ring will stick and/or break. The combustion gasses can then venture lower and take out the other rings and oil control ring.
Also, if Top Grove fill is allowed to happen, the carbon and varnish act as an abrasive and quickly wear away the crosshatch pattern on the liner or cylinder wall. You then get massive oil consumption. I think Top Grove fill is set at around 14% max in controlled tests.
This does sound like a rebadged Delvac 1. At least you can buy it in quarts instead of the gallon jug.
And if it IS Delvac 1, you folks are buying it at about $1 a quart cheaper than I am in bulk at my Mobil dealer.
Jerry
The biggest problem running EGR in a large 6 cylinder diesel motor is the massive soot you introduce back into the motor. The CI-4 is reformulated with extra detergents to help control the soot.
CH-4 is a slightly older spec that also is supposed to deal with EPA-mandated emissions redesign, primarily the design of the piston. This is an extension of the first such controls from the early 90's.
The piston is redesigned to reduce blow-by and particulates that used to shoot out the stack. This is done by moving the ring land area, especially the Top Grove, much closer to the top of the piston, the crown land.
The Top Grove compression ring now sees much higher temps than it used to. As a result, a weaker oil can break down and create carbon/sludge/varnish deposits in the Top Grove.
Eventually, the Top Grove compression ring will stick and/or break. The combustion gasses can then venture lower and take out the other rings and oil control ring.
Also, if Top Grove fill is allowed to happen, the carbon and varnish act as an abrasive and quickly wear away the crosshatch pattern on the liner or cylinder wall. You then get massive oil consumption. I think Top Grove fill is set at around 14% max in controlled tests.
This does sound like a rebadged Delvac 1. At least you can buy it in quarts instead of the gallon jug.
And if it IS Delvac 1, you folks are buying it at about $1 a quart cheaper than I am in bulk at my Mobil dealer.
Jerry
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If M1 Truck and SUV 5W-40 is really D1, why don't they carry the same approvals?
Anyway, should I give the M1 Truck and SUV 5W-40 a try in my Audi sports sedan? 5W-40 is a recommended vicosity for the 2.8, but I'm still wondering if an oil designed for diesel motors is really optimal for a gas engine. D 1 has no friction modifiers, right? And does it even matter to a gas engine that a diesel oil will hold a large amount of soot? Supposedly CI-4 rated oils can neutralize large amounts of acids, and they are designed to last 30k miles in trucks. Sounds like a robust oil to me. So, should I give it a shot? I'm due for an oil change.
PS: heyjay, thanks for the explanation on CI-4. I actually found some info on the various diesel specs.
[ January 29, 2004, 01:39 AM: Message edited by: moribundman ]
Anyway, should I give the M1 Truck and SUV 5W-40 a try in my Audi sports sedan? 5W-40 is a recommended vicosity for the 2.8, but I'm still wondering if an oil designed for diesel motors is really optimal for a gas engine. D 1 has no friction modifiers, right? And does it even matter to a gas engine that a diesel oil will hold a large amount of soot? Supposedly CI-4 rated oils can neutralize large amounts of acids, and they are designed to last 30k miles in trucks. Sounds like a robust oil to me. So, should I give it a shot? I'm due for an oil change.
PS: heyjay, thanks for the explanation on CI-4. I actually found some info on the various diesel specs.
[ January 29, 2004, 01:39 AM: Message edited by: moribundman ]
CAFE limitations apply to trucks that are under the 8500 lb Gross Vehicle Weight. In general, this means that all 1/2 ton trucks are subject to CAFE. 3/4 ton and up are not.quote:
Originally posted by quadrun1:
I believe CAFE requirements don't apply to trucks!quote:
Originally posted by moribundman:
Hmm, it's for US makes. I thought those were all going for thinner oil now? What gives all of a sudden?
Its all marketing folks. Mobil realizes that many truck owners are stepping up to the plate and moving up to a diesel powered pickup. The uneducated oil user doesn't know that Mobil makes an excellent synthetic Diesel oil in Delvac 1.
Solution: Offer a Mobil 1 branded offering that makes these folks feel good that they are using M1, a brand they know (as opposed to D1!).
I would speculate that this is in fact Delvac 1. In order to try and maintain market dominance in the consumer market, Mobil wants an oil for light diesels and gas motors, but knows that they cannot sell Delvac 1 for $6.00 quart. By the same token, they know that if they drop the price of Delvac 1 which is a strong seller, they are loosing profits. The solution is to repackage Delvac 1, but not list the heavy truck certifications, thereby having a consumer oil, while not cannabalizing their heavy truck sales.
Obviously, a quick UOA would let us know if the new 5w-40 has the same additive package as Delvac.
Cary
Obviously, a quick UOA would let us know if the new 5w-40 has the same additive package as Delvac.
Cary
Oh yes. Millions of years and many lifetimes ago, while I was grinding my way thru Arizona State University studying accounting, I beat tires and greased trucks for a living. All the Cummins 6s we had (and virtually all the other engines, too) held 10 gallons including that huge Luberfiner bypass filter. Is the panplug still 1-1/4"? Does Cummins still use those cloth-sock full-flow filters? (It's been about 40 years.)
Let's see...10 gallons = 40 quarts, times 50 cents = $20.
My question--is this 'Truck and SUV' oil the 'new 5W-40 SUV oil' they announced months ago, or will we soon see a gasoline-only SUV oil?
You hit the bulls-eye! I agree with you 100%. "Follow the money" on this one...
At any rate, it will mean that the 5w-40 Mobil synth product will be more available everywhere. THAT'S great news to me...
[ January 29, 2004, 01:20 PM: Message edited by: ToyotaNSaturn ]
It could also be a "shelf flanker" oil. Like having Honeynut Cheerios next to the main line of Cheerios (and probably forcing the stores to carry both) it bumps off room for other brands.
It also makes people feel like they're selecting from an "exotic boutique" when they walk out with Drive Clean dino or even M1 10w30. Strokes their egos.
It also makes people feel like they're selecting from an "exotic boutique" when they walk out with Drive Clean dino or even M1 10w30. Strokes their egos.
The crude way to tell is the "smell" test. Mobil 1 smells like "Elmer's glue" and Delvac 1 smells like...well, "Diesel" oil. They're 2 totally different products. So if the 5-40 smells like Delvac, one can probably bet the farm that they're the same. Might be why they never offered the stuff in qt. bottles from the get-go. Now they do...
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Actually, if my sniffer is working alright, I'd say the Truck&SUV 5W-40 smells like Elmer's glue, or rather a bit like oilve oil with a hint of nut, if that makes any sense. I don't know how diesel oil smells, though.
Dr.T, do you think I should try this oil in my A4?
Dr.T, do you think I should try this oil in my A4?
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