Choices, does it make a difference ?

Joined
Jun 15, 2021
Messages
441
Location
Central Pennsylvania
Situation, many discussions on this.
Have 2 2020 Honda CRV'S, both EXL's with 1.5t

Coming here with this as the CRV forum no longer allows discussions on oil, moderators have decided that Honda has " solved " the OD issue, just run 0w20 and follow the MM which usually runs you to either annual or 7-8k intervals, sorry but UOA's show for most that's not in your engines best interest, probably get you through the factory warranty , but we have 17 year 140k Hondacare extended warranties and intend to keep both cars.

One with 33k one with 8k (wife's car, lots of short trips)
Several UOA's have shown that the M1 0w20 EP or AFE are thinned below grade usually at 2,500-3,000 miles and oil has risen on the stick with Hondas MM showing 50-60% oil life remaining at that point. This is a known issue with this engine, discussed to death here and elsewhere. After discussions here and with my Honda dealer's Service manager, Service Advisor and my Honda Certified Master Technician, advice was to, obviously, go to an oil with a higher base viscosity, changed to M1 0W-30 AFE, seems to work well, still thins below grade at 3k but still over what the 0w20 should be at that mileage. Also have gone to 3000/3500 mile OCI's using the Honda 02 current filter. So with the situation somewhat under control, have found the M1 0W-30 AFE somewhat difficult to source locally, so here's the choices I'm considering:

M1 0W-30 AFE base viscosity 11.5 KV@100c (hard to find but can get it)
M1 5W-30 EP base viscosity 10.6 KV@100c (very available locally)
M1 5W-30 base viscosity 10.0 KV@100c (Also very available locally)

All are API rated GF-6 and are now GM Dexos1 Gen3 and the 5W-30's also have the (now apparently obsolete)Honda HTO-06 Certified rating

Temperatures here in Central Pennsylvania seldom go below 10f so I'm not concerned with the 0W or 5W difference.
So the question is: any advantages/disadvantages to switching to the easier to find 5W-30 EP other than availability or should I continue to seek out the M1 0W-30 AFE that seems to work pretty well? Have stopped worrying about the UOA's as they are about $40 and it's just more efficient to just change the oil at 3-4k intervals. BTY, the 0W-30 shows far less rise on the stick at 3k, so assuming the higher viscosity is providing better ring sealing. My personal theory, obviously not testing or based on any data other than basic physics, is the issue with OD in the Honda is largely related to (1) Thin oil (2) pressured intake and (3) low tension piston rings, all compounded by the cool-running nature of that engine. All designed to maximize CAFE numbers. Well, screw CAFE ratings, I want my engine to live longer.
So, stay with the M1 0W-30 AFE or go to the easier to source M1 5W-30 EP? Don't know if the base stock composition or additives are better in one or the other.

 
Any of those will be fine :)

Any synthetic d1g3 will work great in your Honda. Turbos don't like short trips. The A02 is basically a Fram PH7317, so you can use that and save money, or you can upgrade to the TG to get a much better filter at the same price point as the dealer.

Filling up with premium will help, even though they say you can use regular but it's still not a good idea with a turbo :sneaky:

Take it on a long drive once a week if you can (at least 20 miles). If you can, even a trip to Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, or Allentown once a month, if possible.
 
I tried 0w-30 in my mazda, winter fuel dilution knocked viscosity down pretty good. I went with mobil 0w40 for winter use.
 
A lot of CRV owners don’t even know about the issue. A friend of mine has a 2018 with the 1.5. She gets the oil changed at the dealer when the monitor tells her it’s time. She has to be coming up on 200,000 miles on it. No engine troubles.
As many miles as it has, it would seem likely she uses it for long drives so it's fully warmed up. Isn't oil dilution caused by unburned gas getting in the oil? And wouldn't a hotter engine evaporate or boil off that gas in the oil much better?
 
I don't worry too much about the engine's internals as it's got a belt and not a chain which abuses the oil less but a thinned down 20 grade isn't great for the turbo bearings. If I owned a Honda 1.5t I'd use whatever cheapest gal jug of dual rated 15w-40 and change it every 3-4k. I'd change the filter every 2-3 runs.

I'd only stick to 0w-20 if i ran it 50k+ miles a year since that gives it time to evaporate the fuel and low load reduces wear. But that's very rare and unrealistic as almost everyone including me short trip way more. It's why that one 2022 Honda lasted 250k miles. It just spent its whole time on the highway at low engine and trans load and high temps. No issues using a thin oil there.
 
More a question than a suggestion. Would a 5w-30 loose viscosity more slowly than 0W-30 due to less vii.

Or is the OD problem the same irrelevant of the VII.

For the OP - short trips / low miles I would just change it frequently with whatever meets your Xw-30 spec you can find cheapest.
 
It's not the oil as much as the oil change interval that I would be worried about if OD is your concern. OC every 3-4,000 miles and any oil you want. If you want to safe a little money, just empty the filter and replace every other change.
Have pretty much come to that conclusion. That being a given, I'm 75 and somewhat disabled so I use a trusted Certified Technician at my Honda dealer. I go by the Honda Service schedule, sometimes a bit early, but that's my nature. At this point just trying to determine if there's any downside or benefit to trying the M1 5W-30 EP over the 0W-30. Being a retired Biomedical Technician, I tend to be a bit anal about maintenance.
 
I don't worry too much about the engine's internals as it's got a belt and not a chain which abuses the oil less but a thinned down 20 grade isn't great for the turbo bearings. If I owned a Honda 1.5t I'd use whatever cheapest gal jug of dual rated 15w-40 and change it every 3-4k. I'd change the filter every 2-3 runs.

I'd only stick to 0w-20 if i ran it 50k+ miles a year since that gives it time to evaporate the fuel and low load reduces wear. But that's very rare and unrealistic as almost everyone including me short trip way more. It's why that one 2022 Honda lasted 250k miles. It just spent its whole time on the highway at low engine and trans load and high temps. No issues using a thin oil there.
Actually the 1.5t currently uses a timing chain, and you're correct I don't get as many long trips as I used to, my commute to work is 15 miles.
 
As many miles as it has, it would seem likely she uses it for long drives so it's fully warmed up. Isn't oil dilution caused by unburned gas getting in the oil? And wouldn't a hotter engine evaporate or boil off that gas in the oil much better?


She does drive a lot of 25 to 50 mile trips.
 
Using a xW30 for this engine is a good idea IMO. A little extra viscosity never hurts, and gives some extra margin for fuel dilution. Whether you use 5W30 or 0W30 in your climate doesn't really matter. I use 0W30 AFE in my Accord for our climate here, which occasionally sees -30 to -40 winter temps.
The differences between the three oils you listed are so slight, I don't think you would see any difference in engine life between them. If the OLM allows it, I would go with 5000 mile OCI's. More frequent OCI's than that (with those oils you listed) would be a waste of money, just my 2 cents.
 
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Situation, many discussions on this.
Have 2 2020 Honda CRV'S, both EXL's with 1.5t

Coming here with this as the CRV forum no longer allows discussions on oil, moderators have decided that Honda has " solved " the OD issue, just run 0w20 and follow the MM which usually runs you to either annual or 7-8k intervals, sorry but UOA's show for most that's not in your engines best interest, probably get you through the factory warranty , but we have 17 year 140k Hondacare extended warranties and intend to keep both cars.

One with 33k one with 8k (wife's car, lots of short trips)
Several UOA's have shown that the M1 0w20 EP or AFE are thinned below grade usually at 2,500-3,000 miles and oil has risen on the stick with Hondas MM showing 50-60% oil life remaining at that point. This is a known issue with this engine, discussed to death here and elsewhere. After discussions here and with my Honda dealer's Service manager, Service Advisor and my Honda Certified Master Technician, advice was to, obviously, go to an oil with a higher base viscosity, changed to M1 0W-30 AFE, seems to work well, still thins below grade at 3k but still over what the 0w20 should be at that mileage. Also have gone to 3000/3500 mile OCI's using the Honda 02 current filter. So with the situation somewhat under control, have found the M1 0W-30 AFE somewhat difficult to source locally, so here's the choices I'm considering:

M1 0W-30 AFE base viscosity 11.5 KV@100c (hard to find but can get it)
M1 5W-30 EP base viscosity 10.6 KV@100c (very available locally)
M1 5W-30 base viscosity 10.0 KV@100c (Also very available locally)

All are API rated GF-6 and are now GM Dexos1 Gen3 and the 5W-30's also have the (now apparently obsolete)Honda HTO-06 Certified rating

Temperatures here in Central Pennsylvania seldom go below 10f so I'm not concerned with the 0W or 5W difference.
So the question is: any advantages/disadvantages to switching to the easier to find 5W-30 EP other than availability or should I continue to seek out the M1 0W-30 AFE that seems to work pretty well? Have stopped worrying about the UOA's as they are about $40 and it's just more efficient to just change the oil at 3-4k intervals. BTY, the 0W-30 shows far less rise on the stick at 3k, so assuming the higher viscosity is providing better ring sealing. My personal theory, obviously not testing or based on any data other than basic physics, is the issue with OD in the Honda is largely related to (1) Thin oil (2) pressured intake and (3) low tension piston rings, all compounded by the cool-running nature of that engine. All designed to maximize CAFE numbers. Well, screw CAFE ratings, I want my engine to live longer.
So, stay with the M1 0W-30 AFE or go to the easier to source M1 5W-30 EP? Don't know if the base stock composition or additives are better in one or the other.
Go with the EP and see how your car likes it.
 
Probably it’s a good idea to try the one of them and analyse that that we’ll show you oil analysis for 3000 miles and if you’re not satisfied change the oil and so one , probably and some thicker oils we’ll help.
 
Probably it’s a good idea to try the one of them and analyse that that we’ll show you oil analysis for 3000 miles and if you’re not satisfied change the oil and so one , probably and some thicker oils we’ll help.
Been there, done that (original post) The 0W-30 still thinned as did the 0w20 at 3000 miles, however the 0W-30 was still in an acceptable range compared to the 0w20 which was below grade. No magic here, fully expecting the 5W-30 to still be below grade at 3000, hoping it's at least as good as the 0W-30 which is becoming harder to find in my area. Game plan is to run the M1 5W-30 EP the same 3000-3500mi or so as the 0W-30, it's just easier to find. So far the 0W-30 rises less on the stick than the 0w20, hopefully the 5W-30 will do as well. I'm undoubtedly over-thinking this situation, but when Honda's own MM indicates 60% oil life remaining and UOA shows thinning below grade I'm concerned. Even my tech, a Honda Certified Master Technician, advised going to a 30 weight if I'm planning on keeping the car as well as shorter OCI'S. There are crap-ton of Honda 1.5t's happily running with thinned 0w20 oil, just don't want to be one of them. Neither of Our CR-V'S get a lot of highway miles and that is undoubtedly the primary cause. The interesting thing is the corner Honda has painted itself Into, getting high mileage (CAFE) low emissions and decent power from a small-displacement, Turbocharged engine with low-tensio piston rings, compounded by its cool-running nature. I used to take the longer trips that would evaporate the fuel through higher oil temperatures, but now retired, older and don't travel as much.
 
Any xW-30 is going to be less impacted by the same volume of fuel dilution than a xW-20. At least your dealership Service Manager, Service Advisor and Certified Master Technician all understand it.
 
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Changed to M1 5W-30 EP, no difference in startup, engine does seem a bit quieter but power and running seems to be normal. Weather here has been a roller coaster temperature wise, 20's & 30's to 70 today, back down over the weekend. Milage is down a bit, but hard to tell until temperatures stabilize and I get some highway miles.
 
Changed to M1 5W-30 EP, no difference in startup, engine does seem a bit quieter but power and running seems to be normal. Weather here has been a roller coaster temperature wise, 20's & 30's to 70 today, back down over the weekend. Milage is down a bit, but hard to tell until temperatures stabilize and I get some highway miles.
You're attempting to use everyday driving mileage to observe a difference between two oils of the same grade but a different winter rating?
 
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