MMO full oci?

[demarpaint]

Thanks. My thinking is when it is mixed into gas at a rate of 320:1 how much phos ppm is there? Now add in 1800*F combustion chamber temps. That plus the fact that MMO has been tested and they state it is safe to add to gas and oil. Then testimony from real world users of the product.

Since cat converters are a part of emission systems if an additive that hits the market is destroying them, I have a feeling they'd be shut down pretty quick?

 

[Greggy_D]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint


These are just a few examples of cat converter vehicles. I was adding MMO to my 1966 Ford Falcon. We go back quite a few years. i could ramble on about positive results I've seen, but I'll stop here.


Keep rambling brother!

 

[Jax_RX8]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ


This is exactly what I was thinking, people seem to freak out at the fact that MMO contains phosphorus whitout knowing it's concentration.



MMO contains about 900 ppm of phosphorous, and that is why Terry has issues (at least one reason). But you must understand how MMO works in the fuel to see if this is a concern for cats - my understanding follows:

There is much misunderstanding about how lead (of course no longer an issue with unleaded gas) and phosphorous hurt a catalyst - many people use the phrase "poisoning", when in reality, they cause "buildup" on the catalyst plates, preventing them from functioning properly.

That said, the reason MMO does NOT hurt the cat is that it is very effective at removing lead (that is why it is used in the aviation industry so much - to counter the lead buildup in Aviation fuels like AV100) and phosphorous so that it keeps the cat very clean and free of metals like lead and phosphorous, but also free of carbon buildup, which can cause just as much damage by restricting flow and causing too hot operating temperatures.

The dichlorobenzene's used (2 types), 1,2 and 1,4 (look them up in wiki), are the main ingredients that prevents this buildup, in addition to being a great cleaners and extremely good barrier lubricants and friction modifiers. You can see the results of this in the carbon-less and very clean exhaust pipes as it is cleaning them as well.

All this said, I have done a lot of researching on MMO before I started using it, including talking with Rick Kelly the MMO Technical director, and have found most of the elemental analysis are used to sound alarms without focusing how it actually functions during combustion when used in the fuel.

While were at it - the dichlorobenzene's do not cause corrosion when used in the oil - there have been many informal corrosion tests and it has never shown to promote corrosion, maybe to total package works to prevent that possible side-effect. Heck, it is used as a penetrating oil all the time.

My 2 cents for all the panic attacks lately.

I continue to use MMO in both the oil and gas with excellent results and confidence.

 

[demarpaint]

Well Jax thanks for shedding some technical light. I went about it in layman's terms, based on my using the product from the 70's when I first started driving. It is the chemistry and combustion process that makes the stuff work, when dissecting the product people panic. Glad you shed some easy to understand technical info for us!

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Greggy_D
Originally Posted By: demarpaint


These are just a few examples of cat converter vehicles. I was adding MMO to my 1966 Ford Falcon. We go back quite a few years. i could ramble on about positive results I've seen, but I'll stop here.


Keep rambling brother!

LOL- Just a little rambling, freeing up sticking lifters for a buddy of mine. Cleaning sludge and the usual varnish for same friend. I had a fuel gauge that didn't work on a used car purchase IIRC. Started adding MMO problem solved, and it stayed that way for all the years I owned it.

My brother used to fool around with mini bikes and go-carts. He used to pull trashed mowers from the garbage and build mini bikes with the engines. As he got older he did snow-blowers and lawn equipment. He pulled a siezed Briggs engine, did a MMO piston soak, freed up the engine and was able to get it running. We used that engine on a lawn edger we made from trashed machines.

Now in 35 years of driving and 25+ cars vans and SUV's I've owned I changed 2 carbs, and never replaced a fuel injector. I keep my cars a long time, and for the most part shop gas for price vs brand, although in the new Jeep I run either Sunoco or Shell gas. I'm sure others can say they've had similar success with out it, but I think it helped me big time.

 

[SamSpade]

Gary Allan says on this neighboring thread that MMO dropped the o-Dichlorobenzene back in 2002.

 

[KrisZ]

This is the kind of information that is needed, thanks Jax_RX8.

I started using MMO in gas few weeks ago and I must admit that after reading the "bad" news I was a little worried, but then I tried to rationalize the situation.

On one hand I had this lab report that no one could see, with no concrete numbers and personal interpretation of the report.

On the other hand I had a product that has been succesful for 80 years, their assurance that MMO is safe for emission components, people on this board with decades of use, and 0 problems reported on the internet that I could find.

IMO, I think I will continue to use MMO.

Of cource, everybody else will have to make their own decision.

 

[greenaccord02]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
...I tried to rationalize the situation.

On one hand I had this lab report that no one could see, with no concrete numbers and personal interpretation of the report.

On the other hand I had a product that has been succesful for 80 years, their assurance that MMO is safe for emission components, people on this board with decades of use, and 0 problems reported on the internet that I could find.

IMO, I think I will continue to use MMO.


Great stuff, LOL.

 

[demarpaint]

Glad to see some of the hysteria has subsided.

 

[Jax_RX8]

Originally Posted By: SamSpade
Gary Allan says on this neighboring thread that MMO dropped the o-Dichlorobenzene back in 2002.


That is NOT correct - it still has it as it is the same formula as far back as Marvel can trace it (1950's or so).

MSDS requirements have changed over time - thus what is shown on it has varied over the years, and in what detail. E.g. I have an old MSDS that used to show bot versions of the dichlorobenzene used, the current on only lists it as dichlorobenzene as if it is one, when in reality there are two types in it as I stated previously.

 

[chevrofreak]

At 320:1 there is less than 5ppm of phosphorous in your fuel.

If it's 900ppm, that's less than 1/10 of a percent. It gets quite diluted in the fuel.

 

[demarpaint]

Bet someone can drink it at that amount? LOL........ j/k

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: c3po
Originally Posted By: Trajan
I've used MMO in the tank in my last two Camaros. Both of those went over 140k miles, and never, ever, failed an emmission test.

I've used it in the Z4 for 60k miles with the same result. (Giving the TC-W3 a try now.)

Cats have been around since what, 1975 or so? If MMO was wrecking them, one one think they would of been called on the carpet by now.


I have to agree with this statement, except I thought 1977 was the 1st year for cat converters.


Very well could be '77. Don't remember

 

[ionbeam22]

Originally Posted By: Jax_RX8
Originally Posted By: SamSpade
Gary Allan says on this neighboring thread that MMO dropped the o-Dichlorobenzene back in 2002.


That is NOT correct - it still has it as it is the same formula as far back as Marvel can trace it (1950's or so).

MSDS requirements have changed over time - thus what is shown on it has varied over the years, and in what detail. E.g. I have an old MSDS that used to show bot versions of the dichlorobenzene used, the current on only lists it as dichlorobenzene as if it is one, when in reality there are two types in it as I stated previously.


I wouldn't be shocked if both statements are true here. E.g that the formula is essentially the same in practice (despite minor changes) and that Turtle Wax/MMO's disclosure policies have also changed over the years.

 

[severach]

Originally Posted By: c3po
if there is some agreement between Dyson and ARX about MMO, but I think you can guess what is going on.

MMO as a fuel additive does not compete with Auto-RX. MMO as a oil additive competes with ARX. The Dyson people did not complain about MMO as an oil additive so I don't see anything underhanded here yet.

 

[MONKEYMAN]

Very interesting. Oh, and I know nothing....

Today I changed my oil and around 24 oz. of MMO was substituted for oil. That is the same amount I started using at the end of my oil change. Since I burn a lot of oil, I just used MMO to top off since Aug. 2nd. Observations: Car seems to have less friction or resistance. So, is it the oil being thinned out, or could it be the MMO chemistry having some effect? All I know is the car has never run better. I am hoping to reduce oil consumption, something multiple Auto-RX treatments never did. Thanks for all the testimonials and technical info. I really know very little. It is helping a lot.

BTW, I still like Auto-RX.

 

[c3po]

Originally Posted By: MONKEYMAN
Very interesting. Oh, and I know nothing....

Today I changed my oil and around 24 oz. of MMO was substituted for oil. That is the same amount I started using at the end of my oil change. Since I burn a lot of oil, I just used MMO to top off since Aug. 2nd. Observations: Car seems to have less friction or resistance. So, is it the oil being thinned out, or could it be the MMO chemistry having some effect? All I know is the car has never run better. I am hoping to reduce oil consumption, something multiple Auto-RX treatments never did. Thanks for all the testimonials and technical info. I really know very little. It is helping a lot.

BTW, I still like Auto-RX.

Nothing wrong with liking arx, I noiced my car ran better as soon as I pulled out of the driveway after adding MMO, as far as arx, it definetly took awhile.

 

[demarpaint]

Most first time users of MMO don't believe the results they see almost immediately when they add it to their oil. If you want to see big improvements and are thinking about adding to oil, do it durning the winter time. If you live in a colder climate you will be very pleased.

 

[StevieC]

It will be winter up here pretty soon... The leaves have already started changing up by me.

Looking forward to running it as a UCL this winter, and will try it in the oil towards an oil change...

Steve

 

[demarpaint]

Good idea Stevie! Run it toward the end of an OCI and let us know if the butt dino tells you anything. All kidding aside you will probably notice a difference. In the dead of winter the cold starts will be a lot easier. Only thing I suggest is you ease into using it in the oil. Not that anything bad will happen, but most people new to MMO are always a little uneasy about dumping it into the oil. Especially guys that read through all these threads, and their ups and downs.