Michelin Super Sport and PS2 - terrible traction

[KitaCam]

Originally Posted By: edyvw

Originally Posted By: KitaCam
Originally Posted By: edyvw

So if your car cannot go for example more then 140mph or 150mph, why not getting W instead of Y? And tire will reach optimal temperature for that speed rating faster.
There is nothing funner than to see on Camry speed index W or Y


Wrong, very wrong...at least with the Camry...perhaps especially with the Camry, given its light weight and lightweight suspension.

The Ventus on the Camry are W rated and there's nothing funny about their excellent traction in typical Florida thunderstorm...it may not be the speed rating, but it's part of the total package, at least with THESE tires.

Put same tires with V index (if the have) and you will see that they will start to grip faster.


Different sizes come in different speed ratings. The OEM size is W rated...I'm not a testing agency...and I stayed with OEM 17" size for later model Camrys after upsizing from the 15"s.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: KitaCam
As I said earlier, A/S tires that may not be suitable in snow MAY be more suitable than summer tires in all TEMPERATURES...that is, the compound stays flexible in colder temps and thus sustain their effective grip.

Take into consideration the tread pattern, especially side blocks. AS tires have more, how to say, rugged tread pattern and during cornering and braking deform more. Just compare Michelin AS and PSS.
Though, A/S looks more like true summer tire.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: KitaCam
As I said earlier, A/S tires that may not be suitable in snow MAY be more suitable than summer tires in all TEMPERATURES...that is, the compound stays flexible in colder temps and thus sustain their effective grip.

Take into consideration the tread pattern, especially side blocks. AS tires have more, how to say, rugged tread pattern and during cornering and braking deform more. Just compare Michelin AS and PSS.
Though, A/S looks more like true summer tire.

They put in a small number of sipes in the Pilot A/S 3. I took a look at mine and they call them "3D". As far as I can tell, the sipes are wider at the surface but narrow down as it gets towards the tread block. I suppose this is supposed to make them less squirmy. However, it's not quite like a Continental ExtremeContact DWS, which quite a few have noted is actually adequate in snow - probably better than most all-seasons. However, the tread pattern is extremely "busy" with lots of biting edges - especially with a lot of tiny tread blocks. I had that on my WRX. It was smooth riding, but a sharp right turn at 20 MPH and they squealed.

And another issue I have is that many of these summer tires just aren't available in my stock size - 205/55R16. Not the Pilot Super Sport. When I was looking at the Pirelli PZero Nero, that only started in 17" sizes, but the PZero Nero M+S came in my size. There are some summer tires that come in smaller sizes, but many of them aren't

I remember arguments with one guy who claimed that all-seasons were a compromise because water adhered to the surface and compromised wet handling. It was pointed out to him many times that the silica used in nearly all tires (including summer tires) these days causes water to adhere to the surface. However, his holy grail seemed to be a "3 season" tire that would stay pliable in cold mornings. For the most part I don't think that exists. The next best thing would be the all-seasons on the upper range that will still maintain grip in near freezing temps.

 

[edyvw]

I have DWS on Tiguan (although I use dedicated winter tire in winter). And yes, they can do OK in light snow. But then, Tig is also AWD.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: y_p_w


And another issue I have is that many of these summer tires just aren't available in my stock size - 205/55R16. Not the Pilot Super Sport. When I was looking at the Pirelli PZero Nero, that only started in 17" sizes, but the PZero Nero M+S came in my size. There are some summer tires that come in smaller sizes, but many of them aren't


I have 205/55R16 Dunlop Direzza Star Specs on my 3 Series track toy; I've found them to be excellent summer tires on both street and track. They have been superseded by the Direzza ZII.

 

[sciphi]

Originally Posted By: KitaCam
Originally Posted By: edyvw

So if your car cannot go for example more then 140mph or 150mph, why not getting W instead of Y? And tire will reach optimal temperature for that speed rating faster.
There is nothing funner than to see on Camry speed index W or Y


Wrong, very wrong...at least with the Camry...perhaps especially with the Camry, given its light weight and lightweight suspension.

The Ventus on the Camry are W rated and there's nothing funny about their excellent traction in typical Florida thunderstorm...it may not be the speed rating, but it's part of the total package, at least with THESE tires.


I've had the pleasure of riding in and trying to keep up with the Camry pace cars at Watkins Glen International. IIRC they have Conti summer tires on them and a V6 under the hood. Those cars handle very well thanks to the sticky rubber, and go like stink. Tires (and the driver) make the car.

I'm thinking I want to get a set of Michelin PS AS3's for our Fit once the DWS's on it are done. Seeing how we have winter tires for it and we don't need terrific snow performance, a high-performing all-season that gets us home to put on the snow tires fits the bill.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: y_p_w


And another issue I have is that many of these summer tires just aren't available in my stock size - 205/55R16. Not the Pilot Super Sport. When I was looking at the Pirelli PZero Nero, that only started in 17" sizes, but the PZero Nero M+S came in my size. There are some summer tires that come in smaller sizes, but many of them aren't


I have 205/55R16 Dunlop Direzza Star Specs on my 3 Series track toy; I've found them to be excellent summer tires on both street and track. They have been superseded by the Direzza ZII.

They seem to be more like autocross-specific tires. I suppose they're street legal, but reports are that they are a compromise when wet.

Every time I buy new tires I seem to be noticing the tires on other cards. I've been able to spot Pilot Super Sports easily. They have a really beefy, rounded shoulder design. It's really different than most tires where the shoulder has a sharper shoulder where it meets the sidewall.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: y_p_w

They seem to be more like autocross-specific tires. I suppose they're street legal, but reports are that they are a compromise when wet.



Well, I run the Star Specs in the wet or the dry on both the street and track- and sometimes in the dry even when ambient temps are below 40F. They have a treadwear rating of 180 and have lasted for quite a while...

 

[hattaresguy]

The problem I have seen with performance tires is as they age they get hard. The tire may look fantastic but it will drive like a hard rubber Walmart special.


Whatever the brand you need new tires, I personally like Dunlop SP9000's.

Also NFW would I do the speeds you do without brand new perfect rubber.

 

[Rand]

size sidewall radius diameter circ. REV/mil size diff.%
245/45-18 4.3in 13.3in 26.7in 83.8in 756 0.0%
265/40-18 4.2in 13.2in 26.3in 82.8in 765 -1.3%

245/45-18 4.3in 13.3in 26.7in 83.8in 756 0.0%
275/40-18 4.3in 13.3in 26.7in 83.8in 756 -0.1%


275/40-18 is closer to the front tire diameter than 265/40-18


You spent how much on car? you need to pay to play.. get a full set of matching new tires, and PSS are the best out there now and you will again be happy.(er)

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
The problem I have seen with performance tires is as they age they get hard. The tire may look fantastic but it will drive like a hard rubber Walmart special.


Whatever the brand you need new tires, I personally like Dunlop SP9000's.

Also NFW would I do the speeds you do without brand new perfect rubber.

Again - that was the speculation with the 2005 Porsche Carrera GT that Paul Walker was riding in. The owner probably had low miles on it, and the factory-mounted tires were on the car when it crashed in 2013. I don't remember hearing if it was the Super Sport or the PS2. I think both were OEM on that car and had designations on the tire specifically for that car.

 

[d00df00d]

Original for the Carrera GT was PS2. Apparently the Super Sports were a HUGE upgrade.

 

[geeman789]

Originally Posted By: MercedesAMG_Pola
Believe me, it isn't normal I am not talking about 55 outside. It must be 68 or more and 15 minutes of fast driving to reach just quite satysfying traction. Even if there is hot enough the traction on the rear isn't sufficent still. I am just wondering what about 1000hp. How it is possible to even start.


It's called "driving"...! The gas pedal is not an on/off switch... you use your available traction... same with braking, and cornering. Turn off the traction control / stability assist stuff, and learn how to "feel" what the tires are telling you...

Or not...! See below...

The "I go around corners at 170 k ..." stuff makes you look silly... especially when you put used, mismatched, age hardened tires on your car...

Fast cars have a habit of KILLING! ignorant drivers... be careful out there...!

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: geeman789

Fast cars have a habit of KILLING! ignorant drivers... be careful out there...!


Otherwise known as the law of natural selection...

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: MCompact
They have been superseded by the Direzza ZII.


Have they increased the treadwear rating on these to 200 (from the Star Spec's 180), so that they can be run in the autocross classes which require at least that number?

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Have they increased the treadwear rating on these to 200 (from the Star Spec's 180), so that they can be run in the autocross classes which require at least that number?

Yes; all ZII sizes have a 200 treadwear rating.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Original for the Carrera GT was PS2. Apparently the Super Sports were a HUGE upgrade.

I wasn't sure when the Super Sport became available. I looked it up, and it seems around 2011. So I guess Porsche did have Michelin design the N0 spec version of the Super Sport specifically for the Carrera GT. So it wasn't exactly a factory tire, but it is referred to as an approved OE-spec tire by Porsche and Michelin.

 

[SteveSRT8]

One of the unique features of my newer Pilot SS is that they are non-directional, this really helps you to milk the miles out of them...

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Original for the Carrera GT was PS2. Apparently the Super Sports were a HUGE upgrade.

I wasn't sure when the Super Sport became available. I looked it up, and it seems around 2011. So I guess Porsche did have Michelin design the N0 spec version of the Super Sport specifically for the Carrera GT. So it wasn't exactly a factory tire, but it is referred to as an approved OE-spec tire by Porsche and Michelin.


Ferrari shipped cars with this tire well before its intro...

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
One of the unique features of my newer Pilot SS is that they are non-directional, this really helps you to milk the miles out of them...

Which is 20K.
I have 11K on them, and 20K seems like limit.