Michelin Super Sport and PS2 - terrible traction

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Originally Posted By: MercedesAMG_Pola
I guess it won't be looking really good on car and the comfort will deteriorate if I put m5 setup. also esp won't be working fine.


It would probably look the same. You are talking the diff of a few mm in height difference between what you have and the M5 setup.

Comfort again, a few mm, it wouldn't be noticeable.

ESP would be fine, just like DSC is fine on mine as the actual diameter of the tires, front to back, is the same.

The one thing you WOULD gain is a 10mm wider footprint in the rear, which would probably HELP traction.
 
You need 4 good tires on your car. Not old tires, not used tires, not mis-matched tires. 4 good, new tires.

You can't push a W-220 class car at 250+ KPH on used, mismatched, crummy tires.

If you can't afford 4 new tires in the staggered set up, you shouldn't be pushing this kind of car that hard.

The Michelin Pilot Aport All Season 3 on my W220 (an S600, twin-turbo V-12) perform exceptionally well. Your safety, as well as the safety of those around you, require a good set of tires.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=177
 
Originally Posted By: Astro14
You need 4 good tires on your car. Not old tires, not used tires, not mis-matched tires. 4 good, new tires.

You can't push a W-220 class car at 250+ KPH on used, mismatched, crummy tires.

If you can't afford 4 new tires in the staggered set up, you shouldn't be pushing this kind of car that hard.

The Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 3 on my W220 (an S600, twin-turbo V-12) perform exceptionally well. Your safety, as well as the safety of those around you, require a good set of tires.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=177


Well said.
 
Originally Posted By: Astro14
The Michelin Pilot Aport All Season 3 on my W220 (an S600, twin-turbo V-12) perform exceptionally well. Your safety, as well as the safety of those around you, require a good set of tires.

I'm guessing you meant the Pilot Sport A/S 3. I just got a set for my WRX in the stock 16" size for my WRX. These are insane for supposedly all-seasons. I've tried doing things that I thought might get me in trouble, and probably would have with the previous Continental ExtremeContact DWS. For a car like mine, the extreme summer tires just don't come in my size either.

However, I think they may only be produced for the North American market. I checked the Canadian Tire website, and they carry it. It's not listed on the Michelin UK website. They only seem to have summer tires.
 
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: Astro14
The Michelin Pilot Aport All Season 3 on my W220 (an S600, twin-turbo V-12) perform exceptionally well. Your safety, as well as the safety of those around you, require a good set of tires.

I'm guessing you meant the Pilot Sport A/S 3. I just got a set for my WRX in the stock 16" size for my WRX. These are insane for supposedly all-seasons. I've tried doing things that I thought might get me in trouble, and probably would have with the previous Continental ExtremeContact DWS. For a car like mine, the extreme summer tires just don't come in my size either.

However, I think they may only be produced for the North American market. I checked the Canadian Tire website, and they carry it. It's not listed on the Michelin UK website. They only seem to have summer tires.

In Europe you drive on summer tires or winter tires. There are handful manufacturers who offer All Season, and even that is usually one model for smaller cars.
I am from Europe, and i still do not get concept of All Season tires, thought, with speed limits here and "roads" maybe it is ok.
 
I am wondering what is so wrong with mismatching the tire. I was always told that matters only to have the same set on front or rear. I heard some concept about matching tires with AWD cars and I can imagine that it can affect the functioning of the systems. In my case only rear tire transfer the power on surface. The front tire is only respond to movement. So in matter of start the only task for front wheels is to keep up rear what is much easier than to keeep control under rear wheels. I haven't notice any problem with driving fast and cornering. The only problem is lets call it launch control.
I have driven many different cars under very different conditions. Expensive and high performance like Porsche Gemballa and even such piece of sh.. like fiat 126p. I also remember my adventures litlle bit simmilar to Top Gear special episodes:)

I learned from that all that if there is some specific problem with a any part of the car the essential thing is not to act randomly. There are obviously many solutions but the problem is just one. It is not hard to replace everything. The trick is to solve the problem with one specific action without spending a fortune on it.

I need to figure out if the problem is because the age of the tires or the nature of my car or is it typical for Michelins PS2 or just only these tires are rubbish.

I am feeling that buying new tires won't by solution for me because I am already so curious about this problem that I really want to figure it out. Maybe it can help me in the future or I will be able to help someone else.

In other case, obviously buying new tires is always better. This is my second time actually when I put used tires on my car and sort of experiment. The first was when I destroyed one tyre and I needed quick replacement. I
 
Has anyone addressed PSI loaded in these tires?

Too much/too little air in the tires can cause a distinct drop in traction capability.

Someone with those tires/that car may like to offer advice in that regard.
 
Originally Posted By: MercedesAMG_Pola
I am wondering what is so wrong with mismatching the tire.

Nothing. Ideally you want the best tire all around, but in your case you can't get the best tire for the rear, so there's no problem going for second best.

The main problem is that the tires you bought are used.
 
Michelin Pilots are great tires. I couldn't be happier with mine.

But used tires may not have been taken care of, they may have been run at low pressure, abused, etc.

Whether the Pilot AS3 is available in Europe is irrelevant. Good models from all the major brands are available, in the right size, the right load and speed rating. Here are 29 sets of tires in the 19" staggered size. https://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSearchResults.jsp?autoMake=MercedesBenz&autoYear=2005&autoModel=S600+Sedan&autoModClar=Base+Model&frontWidth=245%2F&frontRatio=40&frontDiameter=19&frontSortCode=57375&rearWidth=275%2F&rearRatio=35&rearDiameter=19&rearSortCode=57751

In the US market, the AS3 is available in my W-220s size, speed and load rating and has exceptional grip along with a nice ride.

If you've got an S-class AMG car capable of 300 KPH, then fitting the right tires is critical to the performance of that car. Find somewhere else to try and save money, and stop experimenting with used tires on this beast. Your experiment simply proves that used is a poor choice for this car.
 
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For only 915 Zloty a tire...a bargain...when considering how much a difference they'll make on this particular car...
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: Astro14
The Michelin Pilot Aport All Season 3 on my W220 (an S600, twin-turbo V-12) perform exceptionally well. Your safety, as well as the safety of those around you, require a good set of tires.

I'm guessing you meant the Pilot Sport A/S 3. I just got a set for my WRX in the stock 16" size for my WRX. These are insane for supposedly all-seasons. I've tried doing things that I thought might get me in trouble, and probably would have with the previous Continental ExtremeContact DWS. For a car like mine, the extreme summer tires just don't come in my size either.

However, I think they may only be produced for the North American market. I checked the Canadian Tire website, and they carry it. It's not listed on the Michelin UK website. They only seem to have summer tires.

In Europe you drive on summer tires or winter tires. There are handful manufacturers who offer All Season, and even that is usually one model for smaller cars.
I am from Europe, and i still do not get concept of All Season tires, thought, with speed limits here and "roads" maybe it is ok.

The highest performance all-season tires do come in speed ratings that would be appropriate for extremely high speeds.

I don't really think of most all-seasons as appropriate for deep snow. If I lived in a place where it did snow every year, I would get dedicated winter tires. However, one of the issues is the transition to/from winter, where it's may be cold but there's no snow. I remember running summer tires in cold temps between Lake Tahoe and Reno in November. Not a bit of snow, but they did get a little bit squirrely. Some of the all-seasons aren't really ideal for snow, but do well in cold temps where summer tires often harden up because their compound is designed for warmer temps. Winter tires are often lousy for these conditions because they wear really quickly on dry pavement. I've heard that quite a few people will sacrifice a bit of summer performance for a tire that will perform reasonably well during the transitions where there's no snow but it's too cold for summer tires. Also - this new Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 is so good in dry conditions that Michelin was willing to compare them in identical setups with many competitors' summer tires.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
I run the pressure indicated on the placard for the car loaded up to 4 people.


My car's weight is pretty hefty and the mfgr recommended 32 psi all the way around works very well for me. Running 275/35/20 size...
 
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: Astro14
The Michelin Pilot Aport All Season 3 on my W220 (an S600, twin-turbo V-12) perform exceptionally well. Your safety, as well as the safety of those around you, require a good set of tires.

I'm guessing you meant the Pilot Sport A/S 3. I just got a set for my WRX in the stock 16" size for my WRX. These are insane for supposedly all-seasons. I've tried doing things that I thought might get me in trouble, and probably would have with the previous Continental ExtremeContact DWS. For a car like mine, the extreme summer tires just don't come in my size either.

However, I think they may only be produced for the North American market. I checked the Canadian Tire website, and they carry it. It's not listed on the Michelin UK website. They only seem to have summer tires.

In Europe you drive on summer tires or winter tires. There are handful manufacturers who offer All Season, and even that is usually one model for smaller cars.
I am from Europe, and i still do not get concept of All Season tires, thought, with speed limits here and "roads" maybe it is ok.

The highest performance all-season tires do come in speed ratings that would be appropriate for extremely high speeds.

I don't really think of most all-seasons as appropriate for deep snow. If I lived in a place where it did snow every year, I would get dedicated winter tires. However, one of the issues is the transition to/from winter, where it's may be cold but there's no snow. I remember running summer tires in cold temps between Lake Tahoe and Reno in November. Not a bit of snow, but they did get a little bit squirrely. Some of the all-seasons aren't really ideal for snow, but do well in cold temps where summer tires often harden up because their compound is designed for warmer temps. Winter tires are often lousy for these conditions because they wear really quickly on dry pavement. I've heard that quite a few people will sacrifice a bit of summer performance for a tire that will perform reasonably well during the transitions where there's no snow but it's too cold for summer tires. Also - this new Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 is so good in dry conditions that Michelin was willing to compare them in identical setups with many competitors' summer tires.

The issue is not speed, it is handling (where summer tire performs much better), braking distance etc (there is a test of BMW 328 with AS tires and performance tires, and difference is 40ft in braking).
Driving conditions in Europe and the U.S are different. Also, i will never understand why someone needs Y speed rating on a car that is electronically limited to 130mph? When I had Passat 1.8T I bought V speed index because it makes sense.
All cars I have owned and still own in Europe have speed index of 20-30mph higher then max speed by manufacturer advice.
So if your car cannot go for example more then 140mph or 150mph, why not getting W instead of Y? And tire will reach optimal temperature for that speed rating faster.
There is nothing funner then to see on Camry speed index W or Y:)
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
The issue is not speed, it is handling (where summer tire performs much better), braking distance etc (there is a test of BMW 328 with AS tires and performance tires, and difference is 40ft in braking).
Driving conditions in Europe and the U.S are different. Also, i will never understand why someone needs Y speed rating on a car that is electronically limited to 130mph? When I had Passat 1.8T I bought V speed index because it makes sense.
All cars I have owned and still own in Europe have speed index of 20-30mph higher then max speed by manufacturer advice.
So if your car cannot go for example more then 140mph or 150mph, why not getting W instead of Y? And tire will reach optimal temperature for that speed rating faster.
There is nothing funner then to see on Camry speed index W or Y:)

Have you been hearing reports from drivers using this new tire? The reports are mostly that they're better performing in dry and wet conditions than many comparable summer tires. I'm not saying that every all-season is this capable, but Michelin has produced something quite different than the typical all-season. However, reports are that it's not that great in the snow. That's fine with me. I might consider going over well-plowed roads occasionally.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw

So if your car cannot go for example more then 140mph or 150mph, why not getting W instead of Y? And tire will reach optimal temperature for that speed rating faster.
There is nothing funner than to see on Camry speed index W or Y:)


Wrong, very wrong...at least with the Camry...perhaps especially with the Camry, given its light weight and lightweight suspension.

The Ventus on the Camry are W rated and there's nothing funny about their excellent traction in typical Florida thunderstorm...it may not be the speed rating, but it's part of the total package, at least with THESE tires.
 
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Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: edyvw
The issue is not speed, it is handling (where summer tire performs much better), braking distance etc (there is a test of BMW 328 with AS tires and performance tires, and difference is 40ft in braking).
Driving conditions in Europe and the U.S are different. Also, i will never understand why someone needs Y speed rating on a car that is electronically limited to 130mph? When I had Passat 1.8T I bought V speed index because it makes sense.
All cars I have owned and still own in Europe have speed index of 20-30mph higher then max speed by manufacturer advice.
So if your car cannot go for example more then 140mph or 150mph, why not getting W instead of Y? And tire will reach optimal temperature for that speed rating faster.
There is nothing funner then to see on Camry speed index W or Y:)

Have you been hearing reports from drivers using this new tire? The reports are mostly that they're better performing in dry and wet conditions than many comparable summer tires. I'm not saying that every all-season is this capable, but Michelin has produced something quite different than the typical all-season. However, reports are that it's not that great in the snow. That's fine with me. I might consider going over well-plowed roads occasionally.

That tire is if you ask me, summer tire! I seriously cannot see how anyone could use that even when they say on weather channel it might snow!
 
Originally Posted By: KitaCam
Originally Posted By: edyvw

So if your car cannot go for example more then 140mph or 150mph, why not getting W instead of Y? And tire will reach optimal temperature for that speed rating faster.
There is nothing funner than to see on Camry speed index W or Y:)


Wrong, very wrong...at least with the Camry...perhaps especially with the Camry, given its light weight and lightweight suspension.

The Ventus on the Camry are W rated and there's nothing funny about their excellent traction in typical Florida thunderstorm...it may not be the speed rating, but it's part of the total package, at least with THESE tires.

Put same tires with V index (if the have) and you will see that they will start to grip faster.
 
As I said earlier, A/S tires that may not be suitable in snow MAY be more suitable than summer tires in all TEMPERATURES...that is, the compound stays flexible in colder temps and thus sustain their effective grip.
 
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