Mercedes OM642 3.0L diesel analysis 250,000km

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That Rotella T6 0w40 is going to clog the DPF early. Too much Sulphur and Zinc.
Each can do as he pleases. However, it is a myth that 229.51 and 229.52 oils do not have dispersants to handle the diesel soot.
It is common for Sprinters to run 500k plus miles, tough miles of stop and idle and go delivery in cities, on 229.51/52 oil.
The timing chain issue was actually timing chains that were defective, not the result of oil.
As I stated, to each his own, but myth contradicts the facts.
Not sure how "early" is defined here. The CJ-4 and CK-4 oils have DPF compliance as part of the protocols, which is why we have reduced phosphorous levels over CI-4/CI-4 Plus, which had no limits. This is why Delvac 1 was re-branded Delvac 1 ESP with the introduction of CJ-4, which of course stands for Emissions System Protection.

FCA famously re-spec'd the EcoDiesel from a Euro-style diesel lube to Rotella CK-4.

Now, is the limit higher with CK-4 over C3? Yes. 1,200ppm vs 900ppm.

Here is CK-4:
Screen Shot 2022-02-23 at 1.49.42 PM.jpg
Screen Shot 2022-02-23 at 1.49.21 PM.jpg
 
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I owned a 642 for 130k miles and used two different indies for MB only. Even they never heard of a clogged DPF. They di d hear and see a lot of sludging and wear from long oci intervals. There are so many DPF's out there now that there are a lot of cleaning services that can clean them for reasonable $$
Clogging a DPF is mainly a mechanical issue via regen and/or consumption (or blow-by) of oil.

It does occur, but only instances of poor maintenance or part failure.
 
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Not sure how "early" is defined here. The CJ-4 and CK-4 oils have DPF compliance as part of the protocols, which is why we have reduced phosphorous levels over CI-4/CI-4 Plus, which had no limits. This is why Delvac 1 was re-branded Delvac 1 ESP with the introduction of CJ-4, which of course stands for Emissions System Protection.

FCA famously re-spec'd the EcoDiesel from a Euro-style diesel lube to Rotella CK-4.

Now, is the limit higher with CK-4 over C3? Yes. 1,200ppm vs 900ppm.

Here is CK-4:
View attachment 90096 View attachment 90095
Amen. Factual basis. Thank you for your contribution to this thread and many others.
I’ve learned a lot over the years.

Many like to throw API C rates as inferior…..
Oh well. Your motor isn’t mine thankfully.
 
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Clogging a DPF is mainly a mechanical issue via regen and/or consumption (or blow-by) of oil.

It does occur, but only instances of poor maintenance or part failure.
It occurs in every DPF. Eventually, ash level is going to be so high that it is going to start to create other issues, hence all the cleaning equipment etc. It doesn’t matter how well maintained vehicle is, DPF sign will pop out eventually. Main preventive measure besides appropriate oil is to keep an eye on thermostat. Failed thermostat (in open position) will kill DPF in no time.
 
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You are contradicting yourself. First you said BMW and MB oil is SN, then they recommend MB229.51/52.

So several things:
1. MB doesn’t care about API.
2. MB doesn’t recommend, it REQUIRES you to use MB229.51/52. If you like that warranty, you better use, again, MB229.51 and/or MB229.52.
3. CK4/E9 is NOT approved for GL350 cdi.

You have in Wal Mart Pennzoil Platinum Euro L 5W30 that is MB229.51.
You have in AAP and AZ Mobil1 ESP 0W30 and 5W30 that are MB229.51/52 (I personally would go these two oils, preferably 5W30). Another excellent choice online is Motul x-clean+ 5W30 (must be +).
Amazon has Valvoline 5W30 XLIII that is MB229.51/52.
You mean the warranty that expired, starting at 80,000.1 miles there is no warranty, including the federal emissions warranty?

Unless there is some factory extended warranty on the emissions equipment for gibbyOM642's 2014 that he doesn't know about, there is no warranty that restricts him to MB certified oil.
 
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It occurs in every DPF. Eventually, ash level is going to be so high that it is going to start to create other issues, hence all the cleaning equipment etc. It doesn’t matter how well maintained vehicle is, DPF sign will pop out eventually. Main preventive measure besides appropriate oil is to keep an eye on thermostat. Failed thermostat (in open position) will kill DPF in no time.

Wrong. Now you add another variable to the 3 you previously and inadvertently mentioned. Now overfuelling creating Soot and tremendous heat/heat cycling.

Admit you have no idea about ash levels and DPF failure. There are more ways than just one way to kill a DPF and all of them have nothing to do whatsoever with just oil itself.
 
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Correction: Being Consumed AND Blow-By (as in Coalescing via intake).

You know not as to “when.” Precisely my point. Appreciate it mate.
Well ya consumption and blowby. When is relative. All else being equal it's going to be sooner for an oil which has comparatively higher levels of SA/P levels. That's a fact

Ex A3/B4 vs C3
 
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Well ya consumption and blowby. When is relative. All else being equal it's going to be sooner for an oil which has comparatively higher levels of SA/P levels. That's a fact

Can you reference a white paper or some scientifically deduced article to indicate such? Let me know please when you have something that states a 1% ash vs .08% and mitigating increases DPF lifespans. Let’s focus like a laser beam on ASH only. For everyone’s edification.

You guys have mentioned variables whether intended or not. Most likely unintentionally that shoots holes in your argument.
 
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Can you reference a white paper or some scientifically deduced article to indicate such? Let me know please when you have something that states a 1% ash vs .08% and mitigating increases DPF lifespans. Let’s focus like a laser beam on ASH only. For everyone’s edification.

You guys have mentioned variables whether intended or not. Most likely unintentionally that shoots holes in your argument.
I don't need to prove anything because the OEs have set the standard. It is up to you to disprove them.

A DPF packaged for .08% won't last as long on 1%.
 
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Excuse me? The OEs have set the standard. It is up to you to disprove them.
ACEA C3 is at .08% instead of 1%.
And somehow you think the world only uses European Spec’d oil for the their DPF’s……

Again, tell me how a 1% Ash load vs .08% harms the DPF regarding longevity?
 
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You mean the warranty that expired, starting at 80,000.1 miles there is no warranty, including the federal emissions warranty?

Unless there is some factory extended warranty on the emissions equipment for gibbyOM642's 2014 that he doesn't know about, there is no warranty that restricts him to MB certified oil.
As part of the AEM work, MB has extended warranty of 4yr/48k miles (at minimum) for a lot of the mechanical components and exhaust system. This warranty extension requires continued adherence to OE spec oils, such as 229.51/.52 for the Bluetecs.
 
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And somehow you think the world only uses European Spec’d oil for the their DPF’s……

Again, tell me how a 1% Ash load vs .08% harms the DPF regarding longevity?
This is the european forum. If you want to talk HDEO or PCMO go over there.

As far are your ash comment. It's up to you to prove the amount of additional ash is irrelevant. I'm not into playing reindeer games with individuals who like to argue for the sake of arguing.
 
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This is the european forum. If you want to talk HDEO or PCMO go over there.

As far are your ash comment. It's up to you to prove the amount of additional ash is irrelevant. I'm not into playing reindeer games with individuals who like to argue for the sake of arguing.
Hahaha. I don’t need to do so. At least it’s out in the open to see. I appreciate for all to see the inadvertent introduction of variables to the DPF failure argument.

I can also see you don’t follow the flow of debate. Read through ALL the posts in this thread.
 
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Hahaha. I don’t need to do so. At least it’s out in the open to see. I appreciate you inadvertently introducing the variables on your DPF failure argument.

I can also see you don’t follow the flow of debate. Read through ALL the posts in this thread.
So basically then there is no difference between Ful SAPS oil like Casrol Edge 0W40 with 1.15% and 0.8%? Right? If the difference between 0.8% and 1% is irrelevant, then 1.15% is irrelevant, or 1.32% in M1 0W40? I mean, you know what, just use Valvoline Racing oil with 1800ppm Zinc, and bunch of SAPS.
 
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Wrong. Now you add another variable to the 3 you previously and inadvertently mentioned. Now overfuelling creating Soot and tremendous heat/heat cycling.

Admit you have no idea about ash levels and DPF failure. There are more ways than just one way to kill a DPF and all of them have nothing to do whatsoever with just oil itself.
There is only one person in this thread that does not have a clue, and we all know who that is.
 
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You mean the warranty that expired, starting at 80,000.1 miles there is no warranty, including the federal emissions warranty?

Unless there is some factory extended warranty on the emissions equipment for gibbyOM642's 2014 that he doesn't know about, there is no warranty that restricts him to MB certified oil.
He got extended 4/48k on DPF/SCR that was replaced bcs. settlement. That is my understanding.

Now the car was recalled and the entire emissions system has been replaced: new DOC and DPF, new SCR & catalytic converter new NOx sensors and a 4yr 48k mile warranty on a bunch of stuff. (including turbo, timing chain and most of the top end) This is all part of the EPA settlement against Mercedes for cheating the emissions similar to VW/Audi/Porsche
 

OVERKILL

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So basically then there is no difference between Ful SAPS oil like Casrol Edge 0W40 with 1.15% and 0.8%? Right? If the difference between 0.8% and 1% is irrelevant, then 1.15% is irrelevant, or 1.32% in M1 0W40? I mean, you know what, just use Valvoline Racing oil with 1800ppm Zinc, and bunch of SAPS.

There is only one person in this thread that does not have a clue, and we all know who that is.
Let's not build strawmen here and attack members for the points they've made.

The reality is that for heavy diesels, which are fitted with DPF's, the standards were changed under CJ-4 to limit phosphorous to 1,200ppm, which had no limit previously. This limit was maintained in CK-4. This was deemed sufficient for DPF protection for these applications, which include OEM's like Cummins, Caterpillar, Detroit, Mack....etc.

Now, the Euro marques through ACEA chose to restrict phosphorous even further, in-line with gasoline catalyst protection limits of 800ppm.

Both approaches were taken with DPF protection in mind.

I also gave an example of a marque that shifted from the Euro lube to a CJ/CK lube with a DPF-equipped engine (FCA with the EcoDiesel).

Is it possible that the DPF's used by Mercedes are more sensitive to phosphorous poisoning than those used by Cummins/CAT? Sure. But we see the same argument on the automotive catalyst front (prior to GPF's) with phosphorous being limited by the API and ACEA, yet I've seen no evidence of higher rates of catalyst failure on full-SAPS oils like M1 0w-40, Castrol 0w-40...etc, so one has to question just how much oil consumption is necessary to produce the results that are apparently being responded to by these limitations.

I don't think there's anything wrong with questioningt the statistical significance of reducing phosphorous from 1,200ppm to 800ppm and what that really means over the life of the equipment. Obviously the big diesels aren't dropping DPF's at a rate that's high enough to warrant further revision, so there's that to consider.
 
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