I see a lot of people looking for oils that meet 10K and 15K Man. OCI requirements. Why not just change your oil at 5K or 7.5K and be safe?
Manufacturer Recommended OCI
- Thread starter Grossomotto
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Because most of these manufactures require you to buy these high dollar oils to meet warranty requirements.
If you buy a cheaper, less capable oil by all means use shorter intervals.
BTW the interval for some manufactures (Porsche, M-B) is 20,000 mi.
Gene
If you buy a cheaper, less capable oil by all means use shorter intervals.
BTW the interval for some manufactures (Porsche, M-B) is 20,000 mi.
Gene
Once upon a time, an oil used to be an oil, used to be an oil. Anymore, depending on your OEM, there are specifications in addition to specifications.
The other truth be told is there is some truth to the concept certain engines running better with one brand over another.
Since I am old school, and "pushing" it long ago sometimes was doing a 3,000 mile oil change, I can relate to what you are implying.
I think overall the oils in general have really come a long way.
I have a 2004 Honda Civic which the OEM with conventional oil (5w20 made to Honda specifications (and FORD) by EM Exxon Mobil, EM product is EM Superflo at app $1.-1.50 per quart) that literally recommends 10,000 mile OCI's and EVERY OTHER oil change to change the oil filter (20,000 miles)!!!!
[ March 26, 2005, 06:54 PM: Message edited by: ruking77 ]
The other truth be told is there is some truth to the concept certain engines running better with one brand over another.
Since I am old school, and "pushing" it long ago sometimes was doing a 3,000 mile oil change, I can relate to what you are implying.
I think overall the oils in general have really come a long way.
I have a 2004 Honda Civic which the OEM with conventional oil (5w20 made to Honda specifications (and FORD) by EM Exxon Mobil, EM product is EM Superflo at app $1.-1.50 per quart) that literally recommends 10,000 mile OCI's and EVERY OTHER oil change to change the oil filter (20,000 miles)!!!!
[ March 26, 2005, 06:54 PM: Message edited by: ruking77 ]
I think its done for various reasons. Some folks don't like to change oil, some run that long bc they don't realize oil must be changed
But to assume shorter changes are "safer" is not necessarily true. Although without an alaysis they probably are. Engine problems can screw you at even 3000 mile OCI's.
Because my 15k OCI beamer is a lease!!
The others get 6 month duty cycles.
I feel sorry for the poor sap who buys the Z4 used. I drive it like I hate it(high revs right out of the driveway no warmup/ever) and my wife takes it on ruthlessly short trips! The oil has been in the sump since it's delivery in Jan 04. Seriously
The others get 6 month duty cycles.
I feel sorry for the poor sap who buys the Z4 used. I drive it like I hate it(high revs right out of the driveway no warmup/ever) and my wife takes it on ruthlessly short trips! The oil has been in the sump since it's delivery in Jan 04. Seriously
I change my oil at 10K and it's safe.
Oil is fairly precious....not precious enough to ruin an engine, but precious enough to understand it's life in your engine.
Oil is fairly precious....not precious enough to ruin an engine, but precious enough to understand it's life in your engine.
Grossomotto,
I've been changing oil every 12,000-20,000 miles/1 year since 1978 with excellent long term results....For example, my 1990 Audi has 228,500 miles on it using this protocol and still burns almost no oil to speak of.
Running 10k-15k OCI's is a perfectly save practice, providing you use an ACEA, A3/B4 quality, PAO and/or ester based synthetic oil (GC/0w-30, Mobil 1/0w-40, Amsoil,Redline, etc) that's formulated for extended use.
TS
I've been changing oil every 12,000-20,000 miles/1 year since 1978 with excellent long term results....For example, my 1990 Audi has 228,500 miles on it using this protocol and still burns almost no oil to speak of.
Running 10k-15k OCI's is a perfectly save practice, providing you use an ACEA, A3/B4 quality, PAO and/or ester based synthetic oil (GC/0w-30, Mobil 1/0w-40, Amsoil,Redline, etc) that's formulated for extended use.
TS
I go by each car's owner's manual, including relevant updates.
VW now says to use a 502.00 compliant synthetic oil and to change it every 5K miles / 8K km, although the fine print says that "cars driven under severe conditions require more frequent oil, oil filter, and air filter changes." With our stop-and-go urban traffic, a 3K mile / 5K km OCI is not unreasonable, even with Mobil 1 0W-40, and is consistent with the manual.
Dodge specifies two separate service schedules, with a 3K mile / 5K km OCI for city cars and a 6K mile / 10K km OCI for cars which cruise freely flowing highways. Dodge also notes that MOST cars probably fall under the severe service rubric. Once again, I follow the venerable old 3K mi / 5K km OCI paradigm, although this car gets Pennzoil dino instead of a synthetic.
Everything I read indicates that oils are better than ever, but engines are tougher than ever on oils.
I do not trust the super-long OCIs specified by some European automakers, because European gasolines have a significantly lower sulfur content than American gasolines, making cars driven in the U.S. harder on oil than their Euro counterparts.
VW now says to use a 502.00 compliant synthetic oil and to change it every 5K miles / 8K km, although the fine print says that "cars driven under severe conditions require more frequent oil, oil filter, and air filter changes." With our stop-and-go urban traffic, a 3K mile / 5K km OCI is not unreasonable, even with Mobil 1 0W-40, and is consistent with the manual.
Dodge specifies two separate service schedules, with a 3K mile / 5K km OCI for city cars and a 6K mile / 10K km OCI for cars which cruise freely flowing highways. Dodge also notes that MOST cars probably fall under the severe service rubric. Once again, I follow the venerable old 3K mi / 5K km OCI paradigm, although this car gets Pennzoil dino instead of a synthetic.
Everything I read indicates that oils are better than ever, but engines are tougher than ever on oils.
I do not trust the super-long OCIs specified by some European automakers, because European gasolines have a significantly lower sulfur content than American gasolines, making cars driven in the U.S. harder on oil than their Euro counterparts.
Most high end European engines have significantly larger oil sumps than corresponding domestic and Japanese engines - that's why they can run long change intervals even using average quality synthetic lubes.
For example, the 3.0L BMW engines hold 7.5 qts of oil. The 3.2L, Mercedes V-6 holds 7.9 qts of oil and so on ....Most German V-8's hold at least 10 quarts of oil!
If you recall my "Oil Change Interval Formula", one of the key parameters is sump size:
OCI = (C*)(mpg)(sump-qts)(cubic inches/Hp)
Increase the sump size by 50% and you can go at least 50% longer between oil changes....Combine this with relatively fuel efficient 4/6/8 cylinder engines and you get very long - and safe - drain intervals.
TS
For example, the 3.0L BMW engines hold 7.5 qts of oil. The 3.2L, Mercedes V-6 holds 7.9 qts of oil and so on ....Most German V-8's hold at least 10 quarts of oil!
If you recall my "Oil Change Interval Formula", one of the key parameters is sump size:
OCI = (C*)(mpg)(sump-qts)(cubic inches/Hp)
Increase the sump size by 50% and you can go at least 50% longer between oil changes....Combine this with relatively fuel efficient 4/6/8 cylinder engines and you get very long - and safe - drain intervals.
TS
John,
It's an empirically derived constant; based on the oil analysis results I've collected over the past ten years using Amsoil. Note that this data was generated using Amsoil recommended practice of changing the filter and topping off the crankcase after 12,500 miles/6 months.
For the Amsoil 5w-30/10w-30/10w-40, I use a C* of 120....
I should add that the units don't cancel in this formula, which I know bothers some of my fellow mechanical engineers. So just use the numbers by themselves.
Ted
[ March 28, 2005, 07:47 AM: Message edited by: TooSlick ]
It's an empirically derived constant; based on the oil analysis results I've collected over the past ten years using Amsoil. Note that this data was generated using Amsoil recommended practice of changing the filter and topping off the crankcase after 12,500 miles/6 months.
For the Amsoil 5w-30/10w-30/10w-40, I use a C* of 120....
I should add that the units don't cancel in this formula, which I know bothers some of my fellow mechanical engineers. So just use the numbers by themselves.
Ted
[ March 28, 2005, 07:47 AM: Message edited by: TooSlick ]
98 Tiburon 2.0L 138000kms[85749mi]
I use M1 0w20, 5w20 or 0w30, whatever's available in that brand. Info I gather off this forum it seems that M1 and AMsoil are compared similar performance.
OCI = (120)(40mpg)(4.75 qts)(122 cubes/140hp) = 19868 miles?
...umm, how can I gain confidence in this OCI mileage.
I use M1 0w20, 5w20 or 0w30, whatever's available in that brand. Info I gather off this forum it seems that M1 and AMsoil are compared similar performance.
OCI = (120)(40mpg)(4.75 qts)(122 cubes/140hp) = 19868 miles?
...umm, how can I gain confidence in this OCI mileage.
Intersesting formula. Here are the results for my STi:
OCI = (120)(21mpg)(4.75 qts)(153cubes/300hp) = 6,105 miles. Sounds about right, I was planning on using a 5,000 mile OCI once I make the switch over to running synthetic (German Castrol).
OCI = (120)(21mpg)(4.75 qts)(153cubes/300hp) = 6,105 miles. Sounds about right, I was planning on using a 5,000 mile OCI once I make the switch over to running synthetic (German Castrol).
TS:
How would we adjust the 120 for an oil inferior to Amsoil?
By this I mean that if we look at Amsoil to rate a 9 out of 10, (leaving room for inevitable improvement), and we rate a hypothetical oil a 5 out of 10, would I replace the 120 in the equation with a higher number or a lower number?
Thank you.
Shaun
The conversion factor is : 120 HP * gallons / in 3 if my math is right.
aehaas
aehaas
I'm not TooSlick, but I'd say you'd replace that 120 constant with a lower number, resulting in a shorter OCI. If your oil rates a "5" and the Amsoil a "9", I'd say that "5" is equal to 66.6666.
I might could believe this for a gas engine, but what is C for a diesel? for my engine this formula is:
C*(17)(14)(444)/300
if C is 120 = 42268 mi.! This is with change of just FF filter corect?
and the numbers I used are conservative,
17 is low in mgp right now, 14 as opposed to 15 or 4gal cause 14 is what can be changed, and 300 is a little optmistic as the engine rarely puts out that much and stock is 235-250. Or are diesels the exception that has to run a bypass to get to this? so with out a bypass, what is C,
20, 25, 30?
For my Ferrari 575 Maranello:
120 * 15qts * 15 MPG ( 351 cu. in. / 515 HP ) = 18,400 miles.
aehaas
120 * 15qts * 15 MPG ( 351 cu. in. / 515 HP ) = 18,400 miles.
aehaas
For my Focus ZX3
120 * 4.5qts * 10.5mpg * (121CID / 160hp) = 4288 miles.
Of course, that 10.5mpg is while I am on track, so I think that might be outside the range for this equation. I doubt I could do 4288 track miles on the oil.
120 * 4.5qts * 10.5mpg * (121CID / 160hp) = 4288 miles.
Of course, that 10.5mpg is while I am on track, so I think that might be outside the range for this equation. I doubt I could do 4288 track miles on the oil.
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