M5 for sale in the GTA

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^^^This is a great example of the kind of details that get left out of magazine articles.

Many of these rags are thinly veiled advertising and the articles are 'sold' to advertisers. So you have to look at them with a grain of salt.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
^^^This is a great example of the kind of details that get left out of magazine articles.

Many of these rags are thinly veiled advertising and the articles are 'sold' to advertisers. So you have to look at them with a grain of salt.


Big +1.

And my recollection of this thread was that Jarlaxle and others were just pointing out that domestic engines from GM for example easily can survive high speed running. Then a Ford guy who shall remain nameless (Overk1ll) was first to interject how the Ford modular was better than the LS
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. The Ford guys always do that and then deny it and project blame lol.
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
And my recollection of this thread was that Jarlaxle and others were just pointing out that domestic engines from GM for example easily can survive high speed running.


Not exactly.

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
An LS1 Z28 will happily run hours at WOT. The LS engines might be the most overbuilt production engines ever built.


I'd argue that title belongs to the '03/'04 Cobra 4.6L with its steel crank, H-beam rods, forged pistons and 6-bolt mains. But the LS motors are generally VERY tough
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Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Unless and until you can show me a Cobra 4.6 holding together making 1200HP with 20+psi of boost on STOCK internals...no.


Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
I am implying NOTHING. I am STATING that Hot Rod took a 5.3 litre LS truck motor (with 100,000+ miles and a big rust spot in one cylinder) from a junkyard, put twin-turbos on it (stock pistons, stock bearings, ported stock heads), and made 1200HP. AFTER they did, they realized that their 5.3 was actually a 4.8 litre...their junkyard dog was making 250HP/litre, more than 4hp/ci. It made 25+ dyno pulls (most over 1000HP) and never missed a beat.


Jaraxle didn't just claim that LSxs could survive extended high speed running, he implied they are the most "overbuilt" production engines of all time...based on an engine dyno session in a magazine article.

OVERK1LL was hardly out of line challenging that outlandish statement or offering up an example of an even more "overbuilt" production engine.
 
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
No one who spends any time at the strip can deny the Ford Terminator is an incredibly cheap way to make world class power. But it truly was DESIGNED to, I really don't think GM ever expected anyone to build a 4.8/5.3/6.0 to these levels.


Yep, and it's WAY beyond its design parameters and not remotely reliable at those power levels. Plenty LS rod bolts have been known to fail at less than 500 to the wheels when shifting at ~7000 rpm, speaking of which I wonder if the 4.8 used stock rod bolts.


Yes...stock bottom end, stock rods and bearings.
 
OK maybe Jalaxle praised the LS highly first. It wasn't an unreasonable statement to make for the LS engine line in genral or directed at any other brand specifically. I'm not saying Overk1ll or anyone was out line, just that no one can say anything positive about a GM engine without a Ford guy missing the chance to tell us how Ford is better
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Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Yes...stock bottom end, stock rods and bearings.


I've read the article. I saw no mention of rod bolts, stock or otherwise, a mighty major detail to gloss over considering this has long been the weakest link in the stock LS shortblock. If they were stock bolts this only highlights the differences in a controlled engine dyno session and the real world.
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I'm not saying Overk1ll or anyone was out line, just that no one can say anything positive about a GM engine without a Ford guy missing the chance to tell us how Ford is better
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Reread the qoutes, OVERK1LL said something positive about the LS.
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I honestly do not think OVERK1LL would have mentioned the 03/04 Cobra had Jarlaxle simply claimed the LS to be an extremely overbuilt engine as opposed to the "the most overbuilt production engine ever built."

A statement like that begs to be challenged.
 
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Yes...stock bottom end, stock rods and bearings.


I've read the article. I saw no mention of rod bolts, stock or otherwise, a mighty major detail to gloss over considering this has long been the weakest link in the stock LS shortblock. If they were stock bolts this only highlights the differences in a controlled engine dyno session and the real world.


There was a bottom-end photo...anyone here better than me with photo enhancement (which would be pretty much everyone) care to try to zoom in and tell us?
 
The bottom line is no one here is qualified to make a statement about whether Ford or GM makes the "most overbuilt" engine ever. That goes for the guys that say Ford does, and GM. Everything beyond that is bickering of the most amusing kind.

Now, carry on.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer


No, you're not paying attention.

This is Bob is the Oil Guy. Ben99GT and OVERK1LL will fight to the death that Ford mod motors are the end all, be all, bestest, and fastest engines ever made. They seek out such threads, doing daily searches for terms like "LSx" and "HP/liter". At least one reply will contain the word "Terminator".

These engines would dominate in Top Fuel, but the NHRA is afraid of them and won't allow OHC engines. They'd do it all on a stock short block too. They wouldn't need nitromethane either: They'd do it on a pump gas blend.

The rest of BITOG love Crown Vics. That right there should tell you that the Ford love goes deeeeeeeeep around here. It's like insulting a redneck. Insult one and you'd better be prepared to deal with the whole family.

Just kidding. I love you Ford guys... not really
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Interesting, considering this thread was about an M5 for sale in the GTA, not Ford OR GM. Yet both of you guys are in here injecting the good 'ol GM lovin' into it.

Which begs the question as to how YOU ended up in here if you weren't searching for those terms yourself? After all, the title of this thread has absolutely NOTHING to do with any of the marques now being discussed
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For all the "the Ford guys start everything" tripe and subsequent finger pointing, it wasn't the Ford guys that derailed this thread nor stated that the LSx was the "most overbuilt engine ever". No, that gem rests in the laps of the members of the "GM crew" who apparently feel that a magazine article (conveniently cited without the facts Ben brought up) is solid proof that a junkyard truck LSx is the modern day longblock messiah and will make 1200HP all day long.

Which begs the question as to why people aren't building 1200HP LSx engines all day long using junkyard longblocks.........

If Ben OR myself had EVER claimed that some torn down 4.6L (regardless of its origin) that ended up with ported heads, aftermarket cams, intake....etc was "stock", we'd be burned at the stake!

But when it is an LSx that they are "trying to blow up" (and conveniently even with the aftermarket intake, camshaft, ported heads....etc that they draw the line at upgrading the ignition?
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) all of these things are magically OK!

No, there's no double standard here.....


No, not trying to inject some GM lovin'. Just trying to inject some fun. This thread is just way too serious.

To bring it back on topic, the E39 M5 is, IMO, the most pure performance sedan ever built. It's not the most powerful or the fastest. It's not the techno-wunder the E60 is. It's not the hairy beast the CTS-V is. It has enough power to get the job done and sports a proper manual gearbox, in a right-sized sedan. It's the last M5 to stay true to what M cars should be.

It's my second favorite BMW M car, after the E30 M3.
 
Actually, it was pretty upbeat between myself, and mechanicx talking about both the bowtie and blue oval boys not having rod bearings issues and the back-and-forth involving cchase, German cars and the Corvette was also civil and I think educational.

It wasn't until the claim that the LSx was the "most overbuilt motor ever" that things went south
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So yes, back on topic, I agree with your assessment of the E39 M5 to a tee. That's why I own one. That's why I love driving it. It is exactly what you've described
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Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Which begs the question as to how YOU ended up in here if you weren't searching for those terms yourself? After all, the title of this thread has absolutely NOTHING to do with any of the marques now being discussed

That's the automotive world equivalent of 99% crowd -- GM folks unable to afford BMW M5. They have time on their hands, so they can code a spider script that parses the Universe for the keywords.

Just kidding.. not really
 
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Unless and until you can show me a Cobra 4.6 holding together making 1200HP with 20+psi of boost on STOCK internals...no.


Contrary to popular urban myth/over zealous ricer belief, not even the much vaunted 2JZGTE could actually do this very well, or for very long (and it would take MUCH MORE THAN 20 psi to get there!!).

Not too many others from ANY country either.
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What were you implying could???


I am implying NOTHING. I am STATING that Hot Rod took a 5.3 litre LS truck motor (with 100,000+ miles and a big rust spot in one cylinder) from a junkyard, put twin-turbos on it (stock pistons, stock bearings, ported stock heads), and made 1200HP. AFTER they did, they realized that their 5.3 was actually a 4.8 litre...their junkyard dog was making 250HP/litre, more than 4hp/ci. It made 25+ dyno pulls (most over 1000HP) and never missed a beat.


OK, I did not realise you were referencing that article!
I almost did not believe it myself when I first read it when it came out, and I hope that you can tell that I'm an LSx fan!! (I do not drive/race/maintain/and keep this car for 12+ years because I hate it!
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)
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Originally Posted By: Y_K
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Which begs the question as to how YOU ended up in here if you weren't searching for those terms yourself? After all, the title of this thread has absolutely NOTHING to do with any of the marques now being discussed

That's the automotive world equivalent of 99% crowd -- GM folks unable to afford BMW M5. They have time on their hands, so they can code a spider script that parses the Universe for the keywords.

Just kidding.. not really


I would not own an M5 if you GAVE it to me.
 
If someone would give me a M5, I would gladly take it lol.

I think BMWs are all right just that their price and total cost of ownership seems higher than comparable cars. They're not the be all end all they are commonly made out to be. That goes for other Euro cars, Porsche, Audi etc.
 
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: Y_K
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Which begs the question as to how YOU ended up in here if you weren't searching for those terms yourself? After all, the title of this thread has absolutely NOTHING to do with any of the marques now being discussed

That's the automotive world equivalent of 99% crowd -- GM folks unable to afford BMW M5. They have time on their hands, so they can code a spider script that parses the Universe for the keywords.

Just kidding.. not really


I would not own an M5 if you GAVE it to me.


Luckily I don't think there is any risk of somebody giving you an M5.
 
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