M5 for sale in the GTA
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What three slanted parallel lines?
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
What I would like to know is why this guy has two fancy cars and lives in a tiny matchbox townhouse ?
I still think the car is priced too high if it hasn't been sold yet.
Good question regarding the other cars and the house, I don't know the owner, so I can't comment. However housing that style is very common in the suburbs of the GTA, which is where the car is purported to be located.
I bought mine through a dealer, who also wouldn't budge on the price. While they fetch a pretty penny for a vehicle of their age, they aren't overly popular for that very reason (and the potential expenses associated with maintaining an 11-year old M-car).
You've indicated you wouldn't spend that kind of money on a car that is 11 years old. You wouldn't be the only one. Many people would have a hard time justifying spending that kind of coin as well.
Another car in this price bracket would be an '03/04 Cobra. They are both toys in my opinion, with the M being a bit more practical, and certainly better appointed.
You have to be a certain kind of "car guy" to want something like this. Somebody who can appreciate the utility of a Camry is not that kind of car guy. And somebody looking to impress their neighbours isn't going to buy an 11 year old M-car for 20 grand either. They'll buy a 5-series for a fraction of the price and slap M badges on it
Meh that's a good deal, go try to buy a G500 of that vintage you will pay a lot more.
You will drop $30k US for a good 2002-04 G500, and they are selling them like hot cakes.
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
What I would like to know is why this guy has two fancy cars and lives in a tiny matchbox townhouse ?
I still think the car is priced too high if it hasn't been sold yet.
Good question regarding the other cars and the house, I don't know the owner, so I can't comment. However housing that style is very common in the suburbs of the GTA, which is where the car is purported to be located.
I bought mine through a dealer, who also wouldn't budge on the price. While they fetch a pretty penny for a vehicle of their age, they aren't overly popular for that very reason (and the potential expenses associated with maintaining an 11-year old M-car).
You've indicated you wouldn't spend that kind of money on a car that is 11 years old. You wouldn't be the only one. Many people would have a hard time justifying spending that kind of coin as well.
Another car in this price bracket would be an '03/04 Cobra. They are both toys in my opinion, with the M being a bit more practical, and certainly better appointed.
You have to be a certain kind of "car guy" to want something like this. Somebody who can appreciate the utility of a Camry is not that kind of car guy. And somebody looking to impress their neighbours isn't going to buy an 11 year old M-car for 20 grand either. They'll buy a 5-series for a fraction of the price and slap M badges on it
Meh that's a good deal, go try to buy a G500 of that vintage you will pay a lot more.
You will drop $30k US for a good 2002-04 G500, and they are selling them like hot cakes.
Originally Posted By: Virtuoso
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Nothing drives like a German car at high speed. These cars are built from the ground up to be able to run at WOT all day long. The Germans have a long tradition of high speed driving. Our cars like the CTSV are fast, but we live in the land of the double nickle speed limit, we just don't have that tradition. So while a CTSV will haul it will not drive at 150mph like a Brabus V12 Mercedes, or a BMW M5. It just won't.
This.
Had a discussion with an old boss awhile back about German cars. He drove a nondescript BMW; and he loved driving them after he spend some time abroad. He said "Sure, we have fast cars here in the states. Mustangs, Camaros, etc. But you can't take them on the autobahn and wrap them out forever like you can a BMW. They're just not built for it. They will take it for a while, but eventually, that engine will come apart on you keeping up with the traffic."
Yep they are not built the same way, the engineering is vastly different.
This is why you can rebuild 4 Ford or GM V8's for the price of one Mercedes or BMW V8.
But the German V8 will run at WOT all day long for hundreds of thousands of miles without complaint.
Since this is an oil forum, why do you think most European engines hold 8 quarts or more while American motors make do with 4? Hint oil is part of an engines cooling system, and when your screaming along the more you have the larger heat sink you have.
My last Mercedes had a totally separate radiator for the oil with its own T stat to regulate its temperature.
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Nothing drives like a German car at high speed. These cars are built from the ground up to be able to run at WOT all day long. The Germans have a long tradition of high speed driving. Our cars like the CTSV are fast, but we live in the land of the double nickle speed limit, we just don't have that tradition. So while a CTSV will haul it will not drive at 150mph like a Brabus V12 Mercedes, or a BMW M5. It just won't.
This.
Had a discussion with an old boss awhile back about German cars. He drove a nondescript BMW; and he loved driving them after he spend some time abroad. He said "Sure, we have fast cars here in the states. Mustangs, Camaros, etc. But you can't take them on the autobahn and wrap them out forever like you can a BMW. They're just not built for it. They will take it for a while, but eventually, that engine will come apart on you keeping up with the traffic."
Yep they are not built the same way, the engineering is vastly different.
This is why you can rebuild 4 Ford or GM V8's for the price of one Mercedes or BMW V8.
But the German V8 will run at WOT all day long for hundreds of thousands of miles without complaint.
Since this is an oil forum, why do you think most European engines hold 8 quarts or more while American motors make do with 4? Hint oil is part of an engines cooling system, and when your screaming along the more you have the larger heat sink you have.
My last Mercedes had a totally separate radiator for the oil with its own T stat to regulate its temperature.
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Originally Posted By: Virtuoso
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Nothing drives like a German car at high speed. These cars are built from the ground up to be able to run at WOT all day long. The Germans have a long tradition of high speed driving. Our cars like the CTSV are fast, but we live in the land of the double nickle speed limit, we just don't have that tradition. So while a CTSV will haul it will not drive at 150mph like a Brabus V12 Mercedes, or a BMW M5. It just won't.
This.
Had a discussion with an old boss awhile back about German cars. He drove a nondescript BMW; and he loved driving them after he spend some time abroad. He said "Sure, we have fast cars here in the states. Mustangs, Camaros, etc. But you can't take them on the autobahn and wrap them out forever like you can a BMW. They're just not built for it. They will take it for a while, but eventually, that engine will come apart on you keeping up with the traffic."
Yep they are not built the same way, the engineering is vastly different.
This is why you can rebuild 4 Ford or GM V8's for the price of one Mercedes or BMW V8.
But the German V8 will run at WOT all day long for hundreds of thousands of miles without complaint.
Since this is an oil forum, why do you think most European engines hold 8 quarts or more while American motors make do with 4? Hint oil is part of an engines cooling system, and when your screaming along the more you have the larger heat sink you have.
My last Mercedes had a totally separate radiator for the oil with its own T stat to regulate its temperature.
The spirit of what you say is correct but you're oversimplifying things. I've not seen many American engines failing from being driven at high speeds for extended periods because it simply does not happen. Yes, high end German cars are designed to be run much harder than your average American sedan and yes, a Camaro and Mustang are going to struggle more at 150 mph than an M or AMG Merc, but to blanket state that German cars are all somehow vastly superior at high speed driving is a huge oversimplification. There's nothing in your average C-class or 3-series that is "overdesigned" to run at 150 mph all day over any comparably priced American or Japanese car.
Originally Posted By: Virtuoso
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Nothing drives like a German car at high speed. These cars are built from the ground up to be able to run at WOT all day long. The Germans have a long tradition of high speed driving. Our cars like the CTSV are fast, but we live in the land of the double nickle speed limit, we just don't have that tradition. So while a CTSV will haul it will not drive at 150mph like a Brabus V12 Mercedes, or a BMW M5. It just won't.
This.
Had a discussion with an old boss awhile back about German cars. He drove a nondescript BMW; and he loved driving them after he spend some time abroad. He said "Sure, we have fast cars here in the states. Mustangs, Camaros, etc. But you can't take them on the autobahn and wrap them out forever like you can a BMW. They're just not built for it. They will take it for a while, but eventually, that engine will come apart on you keeping up with the traffic."
Yep they are not built the same way, the engineering is vastly different.
This is why you can rebuild 4 Ford or GM V8's for the price of one Mercedes or BMW V8.
But the German V8 will run at WOT all day long for hundreds of thousands of miles without complaint.
Since this is an oil forum, why do you think most European engines hold 8 quarts or more while American motors make do with 4? Hint oil is part of an engines cooling system, and when your screaming along the more you have the larger heat sink you have.
My last Mercedes had a totally separate radiator for the oil with its own T stat to regulate its temperature.
The spirit of what you say is correct but you're oversimplifying things. I've not seen many American engines failing from being driven at high speeds for extended periods because it simply does not happen. Yes, high end German cars are designed to be run much harder than your average American sedan and yes, a Camaro and Mustang are going to struggle more at 150 mph than an M or AMG Merc, but to blanket state that German cars are all somehow vastly superior at high speed driving is a huge oversimplification. There's nothing in your average C-class or 3-series that is "overdesigned" to run at 150 mph all day over any comparably priced American or Japanese car.
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
German cars also come with two tire inflation guides, one for sub 100mph driving, one for over. I don't beleive the CTSV does...
That's almost certainly because the CTS-V comes with modern tires. My near twenty year old Xj12 has the double inflation guides, but I can't see any reason why a new car would need them.
That M whatever may have been all that ten years ago, but today it's just another used car with a lot of miles, probably hard, that would probably be pretty tough to unload.
For the 15 or 16K or less that he's going to get for it, why even bother selling it? Just put it in storage somewhere. Especially if it's some kind of supercar or something.
German cars also come with two tire inflation guides, one for sub 100mph driving, one for over. I don't beleive the CTSV does...
That's almost certainly because the CTS-V comes with modern tires. My near twenty year old Xj12 has the double inflation guides, but I can't see any reason why a new car would need them.
That M whatever may have been all that ten years ago, but today it's just another used car with a lot of miles, probably hard, that would probably be pretty tough to unload.
For the 15 or 16K or less that he's going to get for it, why even bother selling it? Just put it in storage somewhere. Especially if it's some kind of supercar or something.
Originally Posted By: cchase
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Originally Posted By: Virtuoso
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Nothing drives like a German car at high speed. These cars are built from the ground up to be able to run at WOT all day long. The Germans have a long tradition of high speed driving. Our cars like the CTSV are fast, but we live in the land of the double nickle speed limit, we just don't have that tradition. So while a CTSV will haul it will not drive at 150mph like a Brabus V12 Mercedes, or a BMW M5. It just won't.
This.
Had a discussion with an old boss awhile back about German cars. He drove a nondescript BMW; and he loved driving them after he spend some time abroad. He said "Sure, we have fast cars here in the states. Mustangs, Camaros, etc. But you can't take them on the autobahn and wrap them out forever like you can a BMW. They're just not built for it. They will take it for a while, but eventually, that engine will come apart on you keeping up with the traffic."
Yep they are not built the same way, the engineering is vastly different.
This is why you can rebuild 4 Ford or GM V8's for the price of one Mercedes or BMW V8.
But the German V8 will run at WOT all day long for hundreds of thousands of miles without complaint.
Since this is an oil forum, why do you think most European engines hold 8 quarts or more while American motors make do with 4? Hint oil is part of an engines cooling system, and when your screaming along the more you have the larger heat sink you have.
My last Mercedes had a totally separate radiator for the oil with its own T stat to regulate its temperature.
The spirit of what you say is correct but you're oversimplifying things. I've not seen many American engines failing from being driven at high speeds for extended periods because it simply does not happen. Yes, high end German cars are designed to be run much harder than your average American sedan and yes, a Camaro and Mustang are going to struggle more at 150 mph than an M or AMG Merc, but to blanket state that German cars are all somehow vastly superior at high speed driving is a huge oversimplification. There's nothing in your average C-class or 3-series that is "overdesigned" to run at 150 mph all day over any comparably priced American or Japanese car.
I know, thre's a little truth to it because of the autobahn but it's mostly just hype a long with Japanese car reliability. Plenty of American cars will run stable at high speed all day. All cars are engineered to run at their maximum rated speed. I can't stand hype.
If you are driving in the US, ~80 mph is about the legal limit. Many cars will do that all day long like it's nothing. And if I was intending to track the car I wouldn't select a big 4-door luxury model.
Besides none of that has anything to do with what I said that M5 has little appeal to me over a regular 5-series, and if I wanted higher performance I'd prefer it in a car that was designed to be a sports car from the ground up and not trying to be two different things at the same time.
In my view the real appeal to the M5 is that it it appreciates so much that it isn't very expensive used, and being a sedan it is more of a sleeper car than say a Charger or Camaro. It's not some special engineering that is going to make a difference. A CTS or 300M has plenty of engineering and is functually equivalent for all practical purposes. I say the same thing about a CTS-V sedan as I would an M5. It's not really my preference. I would just go with the regular CTV sedan and FE2 suspension.
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Originally Posted By: Virtuoso
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Nothing drives like a German car at high speed. These cars are built from the ground up to be able to run at WOT all day long. The Germans have a long tradition of high speed driving. Our cars like the CTSV are fast, but we live in the land of the double nickle speed limit, we just don't have that tradition. So while a CTSV will haul it will not drive at 150mph like a Brabus V12 Mercedes, or a BMW M5. It just won't.
This.
Had a discussion with an old boss awhile back about German cars. He drove a nondescript BMW; and he loved driving them after he spend some time abroad. He said "Sure, we have fast cars here in the states. Mustangs, Camaros, etc. But you can't take them on the autobahn and wrap them out forever like you can a BMW. They're just not built for it. They will take it for a while, but eventually, that engine will come apart on you keeping up with the traffic."
Yep they are not built the same way, the engineering is vastly different.
This is why you can rebuild 4 Ford or GM V8's for the price of one Mercedes or BMW V8.
But the German V8 will run at WOT all day long for hundreds of thousands of miles without complaint.
Since this is an oil forum, why do you think most European engines hold 8 quarts or more while American motors make do with 4? Hint oil is part of an engines cooling system, and when your screaming along the more you have the larger heat sink you have.
My last Mercedes had a totally separate radiator for the oil with its own T stat to regulate its temperature.
The spirit of what you say is correct but you're oversimplifying things. I've not seen many American engines failing from being driven at high speeds for extended periods because it simply does not happen. Yes, high end German cars are designed to be run much harder than your average American sedan and yes, a Camaro and Mustang are going to struggle more at 150 mph than an M or AMG Merc, but to blanket state that German cars are all somehow vastly superior at high speed driving is a huge oversimplification. There's nothing in your average C-class or 3-series that is "overdesigned" to run at 150 mph all day over any comparably priced American or Japanese car.
I know, thre's a little truth to it because of the autobahn but it's mostly just hype a long with Japanese car reliability. Plenty of American cars will run stable at high speed all day. All cars are engineered to run at their maximum rated speed. I can't stand hype.
If you are driving in the US, ~80 mph is about the legal limit. Many cars will do that all day long like it's nothing. And if I was intending to track the car I wouldn't select a big 4-door luxury model.
Besides none of that has anything to do with what I said that M5 has little appeal to me over a regular 5-series, and if I wanted higher performance I'd prefer it in a car that was designed to be a sports car from the ground up and not trying to be two different things at the same time.
In my view the real appeal to the M5 is that it it appreciates so much that it isn't very expensive used, and being a sedan it is more of a sleeper car than say a Charger or Camaro. It's not some special engineering that is going to make a difference. A CTS or 300M has plenty of engineering and is functually equivalent for all practical purposes. I say the same thing about a CTS-V sedan as I would an M5. It's not really my preference. I would just go with the regular CTV sedan and FE2 suspension.
An LS1 Z28 will happily run hours at WOT. The LS engines might be the most overbuilt production engines ever built.
Originally Posted By: Virtuoso
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Nothing drives like a German car at high speed. These cars are built from the ground up to be able to run at WOT all day long. The Germans have a long tradition of high speed driving. Our cars like the CTSV are fast, but we live in the land of the double nickle speed limit, we just don't have that tradition. So while a CTSV will haul it will not drive at 150mph like a Brabus V12 Mercedes, or a BMW M5. It just won't.
This.
Had a discussion with an old boss awhile back about German cars. He drove a nondescript BMW; and he loved driving them after he spend some time abroad. He said "Sure, we have fast cars here in the states. Mustangs, Camaros, etc. But you can't take them on the autobahn and wrap them out forever like you can a BMW. They're just not built for it. They will take it for a while, but eventually, that engine will come apart on you keeping up with the traffic."
Originally Posted By: Virtuoso
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Nothing drives like a German car at high speed. These cars are built from the ground up to be able to run at WOT all day long. The Germans have a long tradition of high speed driving. Our cars like the CTSV are fast, but we live in the land of the double nickle speed limit, we just don't have that tradition. So while a CTSV will haul it will not drive at 150mph like a Brabus V12 Mercedes, or a BMW M5. It just won't.
This.
Had a discussion with an old boss awhile back about German cars. He drove a nondescript BMW; and he loved driving them after he spend some time abroad. He said "Sure, we have fast cars here in the states. Mustangs, Camaros, etc. But you can't take them on the autobahn and wrap them out forever like you can a BMW. They're just not built for it. They will take it for a while, but eventually, that engine will come apart on you keeping up with the traffic."
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
What I would like to know is why this guy has two fancy cars and lives in a tiny matchbox townhouse ?
Hmmm, we should judge a book by it's cover....
What I would like to know is why this guy has two fancy cars and lives in a tiny matchbox townhouse ?
Hmmm, we should judge a book by it's cover....
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
An LS1 Z28 will happily run hours at WOT. The LS engines might be the most overbuilt production engines ever built.
Originally Posted By: Virtuoso
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Nothing drives like a German car at high speed. These cars are built from the ground up to be able to run at WOT all day long. The Germans have a long tradition of high speed driving. Our cars like the CTSV are fast, but we live in the land of the double nickle speed limit, we just don't have that tradition. So while a CTSV will haul it will not drive at 150mph like a Brabus V12 Mercedes, or a BMW M5. It just won't.
This.
Had a discussion with an old boss awhile back about German cars. He drove a nondescript BMW; and he loved driving them after he spend some time abroad. He said "Sure, we have fast cars here in the states. Mustangs, Camaros, etc. But you can't take them on the autobahn and wrap them out forever like you can a BMW. They're just not built for it. They will take it for a while, but eventually, that engine will come apart on you keeping up with the traffic."
I'd argue that title belongs to the '03/'04 Cobra 4.6L with its steel crank, H-beam rods, forged pistons and 6-bolt mains. But the LS motors are generally VERY tough
An LS1 Z28 will happily run hours at WOT. The LS engines might be the most overbuilt production engines ever built.
Originally Posted By: Virtuoso
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Nothing drives like a German car at high speed. These cars are built from the ground up to be able to run at WOT all day long. The Germans have a long tradition of high speed driving. Our cars like the CTSV are fast, but we live in the land of the double nickle speed limit, we just don't have that tradition. So while a CTSV will haul it will not drive at 150mph like a Brabus V12 Mercedes, or a BMW M5. It just won't.
This.
Had a discussion with an old boss awhile back about German cars. He drove a nondescript BMW; and he loved driving them after he spend some time abroad. He said "Sure, we have fast cars here in the states. Mustangs, Camaros, etc. But you can't take them on the autobahn and wrap them out forever like you can a BMW. They're just not built for it. They will take it for a while, but eventually, that engine will come apart on you keeping up with the traffic."
I'd argue that title belongs to the '03/'04 Cobra 4.6L with its steel crank, H-beam rods, forged pistons and 6-bolt mains. But the LS motors are generally VERY tough
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
An LS1 Z28 will happily run hours at WOT. The LS engines might be the most overbuilt production engines ever built.
I'd argue that title belongs to the '03/'04 Cobra 4.6L with its steel crank, H-beam rods, forged pistons and 6-bolt mains. But the LS motors are generally VERY tough
Ah fiddlesticks Ford's V8 can't touch the LS
. The irony is it wasn't the GM LS or Ford Modulars that were known for bearing failures lol.
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
An LS1 Z28 will happily run hours at WOT. The LS engines might be the most overbuilt production engines ever built.
I'd argue that title belongs to the '03/'04 Cobra 4.6L with its steel crank, H-beam rods, forged pistons and 6-bolt mains. But the LS motors are generally VERY tough
Ah fiddlesticks Ford's V8 can't touch the LS
The mythical reputation of the Germans is gone forever.
My Wife put an E55 on the trailer playing on our local stretch of deserted toll road. I'll bet he didn't want to admit a Chrysler made his car break. 3 runs a bit past 150 had him smoking and pulling over!
MANY American cars can cruise all day at triple digits without breaking a sweat. It's really no big deal anymore. A lot of them I see manage the airflow under the body as well as over it, my car even has vents in the rear wheel wells that are for air to escape as well as a real wind tunnel tested spoiler designed expressly for speed.
Decades ago we would pick up a cheap rental at the Newark airport and run all the way to Atlantic City flat out as fast as they would go. Even a Caravan ran 100 plus for the entire way without a peep!
My Wife put an E55 on the trailer playing on our local stretch of deserted toll road. I'll bet he didn't want to admit a Chrysler made his car break. 3 runs a bit past 150 had him smoking and pulling over!
MANY American cars can cruise all day at triple digits without breaking a sweat. It's really no big deal anymore. A lot of them I see manage the airflow under the body as well as over it, my car even has vents in the rear wheel wells that are for air to escape as well as a real wind tunnel tested spoiler designed expressly for speed.
Decades ago we would pick up a cheap rental at the Newark airport and run all the way to Atlantic City flat out as fast as they would go. Even a Caravan ran 100 plus for the entire way without a peep!
22 years ago the L-98 and LT-5 powered Corvettes set world records for endurance. Why hasn't any German car manufacturer even attempted to break these records if their cars are known for "German V8 will run at WOT all day long for hundreds of thousands of miles without complaint" on the autobahn ?
http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/specs/c4/zr1/record.html
http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/specs/c4/zr1/record.html
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
... The irony is it wasn't the GM LS or Ford Modulars that were known for bearing failures lol.
Ouch!
Don't forget the Nikasil bore V8's BMW made, didn't they have a 100% failure rate? You darn sure would not get hundreds of thousands of miles of wide open throttle with one of those - probably lucky to get ten or fifteen minutes.
... The irony is it wasn't the GM LS or Ford Modulars that were known for bearing failures lol.
Ouch!
Don't forget the Nikasil bore V8's BMW made, didn't they have a 100% failure rate? You darn sure would not get hundreds of thousands of miles of wide open throttle with one of those - probably lucky to get ten or fifteen minutes.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
22 years ago the L-98 and LT-5 powered Corvettes set world records for endurance. Why hasn't any German car manufacturer even attempted to break these records if their cars are known for "German V8 will run at WOT all day long for hundreds of thousands of miles without complaint" on the autobahn ?
http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/specs/c4/zr1/record.html
That record is currently held by VW, who broke it in 2001.
Quote:
VOLKSWAGEN W12 COUPE BREAKS 24-HOUR WORLD SPEED RECORD
Volkswagen is the new world speed record holder! Unbelievable but true. On October 14, a team of engineers from the German giant headed by project manager Rudolf-Helmut Strozyk let loose race drivers Dieter Depping (Germany) and Jean-Francois Hemroulle in a specially built W12 coupe on the famous Fiat-owned Nardo test circuit in the south of Italy. The car ran non-stop for more than 24 hours to prove not only the strong feature of the six-litre W12 powerplant (with 600bhp and 620Nm of torque at its disposal) and the six-speed sequential shift transmission but also that Volkswagen managed to better the world speed record over 24 hours even though it lost 40 minutes to a broken diffuser.
Running flat out, the W12 (fuelled by Shell and shod with standard production Pirelli tyres), the W12 covered 7,985.7 kilometres at an average speed of 295.24kmph for 24 hours, this being a new world speed record. If that was not all, the W12 also broke the world speed record for 5000km and 5000 miles at an average speed of 295.44kmph and 291.87kmph respectively.
If that wasn't all, the W12 broke six other class records including the one hour record which it took at an average speed of 310.99kmph; the 6-hour record at 311.58kmph; the 500 kilometres at 307.64kmph; the 500 miles at 308.81kmph; the 1000 kilometres at 311.09kmph and the 1000 miles at 311.51kmph.
22 years ago the L-98 and LT-5 powered Corvettes set world records for endurance. Why hasn't any German car manufacturer even attempted to break these records if their cars are known for "German V8 will run at WOT all day long for hundreds of thousands of miles without complaint" on the autobahn ?
http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/specs/c4/zr1/record.html
That record is currently held by VW, who broke it in 2001.
Quote:
VOLKSWAGEN W12 COUPE BREAKS 24-HOUR WORLD SPEED RECORD
Volkswagen is the new world speed record holder! Unbelievable but true. On October 14, a team of engineers from the German giant headed by project manager Rudolf-Helmut Strozyk let loose race drivers Dieter Depping (Germany) and Jean-Francois Hemroulle in a specially built W12 coupe on the famous Fiat-owned Nardo test circuit in the south of Italy. The car ran non-stop for more than 24 hours to prove not only the strong feature of the six-litre W12 powerplant (with 600bhp and 620Nm of torque at its disposal) and the six-speed sequential shift transmission but also that Volkswagen managed to better the world speed record over 24 hours even though it lost 40 minutes to a broken diffuser.
Running flat out, the W12 (fuelled by Shell and shod with standard production Pirelli tyres), the W12 covered 7,985.7 kilometres at an average speed of 295.24kmph for 24 hours, this being a new world speed record. If that was not all, the W12 also broke the world speed record for 5000km and 5000 miles at an average speed of 295.44kmph and 291.87kmph respectively.
If that wasn't all, the W12 broke six other class records including the one hour record which it took at an average speed of 310.99kmph; the 6-hour record at 311.58kmph; the 500 kilometres at 307.64kmph; the 500 miles at 308.81kmph; the 1000 kilometres at 311.09kmph and the 1000 miles at 311.51kmph.
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
22 years ago the L-98 and LT-5 powered Corvettes set world records for endurance. Why hasn't any German car manufacturer even attempted to break these records if their cars are known for "German V8 will run at WOT all day long for hundreds of thousands of miles without complaint" on the autobahn ?
http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/specs/c4/zr1/record.html
That record is currently held by VW, who broke it in 2001.
Quote:
VOLKSWAGEN W12 COUPE BREAKS 24-HOUR WORLD SPEED RECORD
Volkswagen is the new world speed record holder! Unbelievable but true. On October 14, a team of engineers from the German giant headed by project manager Rudolf-Helmut Strozyk let loose race drivers Dieter Depping (Germany) and Jean-Francois Hemroulle in a specially built W12 coupe on the famous Fiat-owned Nardo test circuit in the south of Italy. The car ran non-stop for more than 24 hours to prove not only the strong feature of the six-litre W12 powerplant (with 600bhp and 620Nm of torque at its disposal) and the six-speed sequential shift transmission but also that Volkswagen managed to better the world speed record over 24 hours even though it lost 40 minutes to a broken diffuser.
Running flat out, the W12 (fuelled by Shell and shod with standard production Pirelli tyres), the W12 covered 7,985.7 kilometres at an average speed of 295.24kmph for 24 hours, this being a new world speed record. If that was not all, the W12 also broke the world speed record for 5000km and 5000 miles at an average speed of 295.44kmph and 291.87kmph respectively.
If that wasn't all, the W12 broke six other class records including the one hour record which it took at an average speed of 310.99kmph; the 6-hour record at 311.58kmph; the 500 kilometres at 307.64kmph; the 500 miles at 308.81kmph; the 1000 kilometres at 311.09kmph and the 1000 miles at 311.51kmph.
Great reads, both of them. I remember the Corvette story. Wasn't there also a 454 pickup that held some endurance record as well?
What vehicle does the W12 come in? Would "none" be accurate? Hardly as much of an accomplishment as the Corvette. It also broke. Oh well.
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
22 years ago the L-98 and LT-5 powered Corvettes set world records for endurance. Why hasn't any German car manufacturer even attempted to break these records if their cars are known for "German V8 will run at WOT all day long for hundreds of thousands of miles without complaint" on the autobahn ?
http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/specs/c4/zr1/record.html
That record is currently held by VW, who broke it in 2001.
Quote:
VOLKSWAGEN W12 COUPE BREAKS 24-HOUR WORLD SPEED RECORD
Volkswagen is the new world speed record holder! Unbelievable but true. On October 14, a team of engineers from the German giant headed by project manager Rudolf-Helmut Strozyk let loose race drivers Dieter Depping (Germany) and Jean-Francois Hemroulle in a specially built W12 coupe on the famous Fiat-owned Nardo test circuit in the south of Italy. The car ran non-stop for more than 24 hours to prove not only the strong feature of the six-litre W12 powerplant (with 600bhp and 620Nm of torque at its disposal) and the six-speed sequential shift transmission but also that Volkswagen managed to better the world speed record over 24 hours even though it lost 40 minutes to a broken diffuser.
Running flat out, the W12 (fuelled by Shell and shod with standard production Pirelli tyres), the W12 covered 7,985.7 kilometres at an average speed of 295.24kmph for 24 hours, this being a new world speed record. If that was not all, the W12 also broke the world speed record for 5000km and 5000 miles at an average speed of 295.44kmph and 291.87kmph respectively.
If that wasn't all, the W12 broke six other class records including the one hour record which it took at an average speed of 310.99kmph; the 6-hour record at 311.58kmph; the 500 kilometres at 307.64kmph; the 500 miles at 308.81kmph; the 1000 kilometres at 311.09kmph and the 1000 miles at 311.51kmph.
Great reads, both of them. I remember the Corvette story. Wasn't there also a 454 pickup that held some endurance record as well?
What vehicle does the W12 come in? Would "none" be accurate? Hardly as much of an accomplishment as the Corvette. It also broke. Oh well.
Uh, the W12 has been used in a few vehicles. Phaetons, Audi A8s, Bently Continental GT and Flying Spur (in twin turbo form).
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Originally Posted By: cchase
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
22 years ago the L-98 and LT-5 powered Corvettes set world records for endurance. Why hasn't any German car manufacturer even attempted to break these records if their cars are known for "German V8 will run at WOT all day long for hundreds of thousands of miles without complaint" on the autobahn ?
http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/specs/c4/zr1/record.html
That record is currently held by VW, who broke it in 2001.
Quote:
VOLKSWAGEN W12 COUPE BREAKS 24-HOUR WORLD SPEED RECORD
Volkswagen is the new world speed record holder! Unbelievable but true. On October 14, a team of engineers from the German giant headed by project manager Rudolf-Helmut Strozyk let loose race drivers Dieter Depping (Germany) and Jean-Francois Hemroulle in a specially built W12 coupe on the famous Fiat-owned Nardo test circuit in the south of Italy. The car ran non-stop for more than 24 hours to prove not only the strong feature of the six-litre W12 powerplant (with 600bhp and 620Nm of torque at its disposal) and the six-speed sequential shift transmission but also that Volkswagen managed to better the world speed record over 24 hours even though it lost 40 minutes to a broken diffuser.
Running flat out, the W12 (fuelled by Shell and shod with standard production Pirelli tyres), the W12 covered 7,985.7 kilometres at an average speed of 295.24kmph for 24 hours, this being a new world speed record. If that was not all, the W12 also broke the world speed record for 5000km and 5000 miles at an average speed of 295.44kmph and 291.87kmph respectively.
If that wasn't all, the W12 broke six other class records including the one hour record which it took at an average speed of 310.99kmph; the 6-hour record at 311.58kmph; the 500 kilometres at 307.64kmph; the 500 miles at 308.81kmph; the 1000 kilometres at 311.09kmph and the 1000 miles at 311.51kmph.
Great reads, both of them. I remember the Corvette story. Wasn't there also a 454 pickup that held some endurance record as well?
What vehicle does the W12 come in? Would "none" be accurate? Hardly as much of an accomplishment as the Corvette. It also broke. Oh well.
It broke a diffuser....
The Corvette lost a rad hose.
I'd say both are pretty minor issues considering.
And the VAG W12 is used in far more cars than the LT5 was:
-Audi A8L W12
-Bentley Continental GT
-Bentley Continental Flying Spur
-Spyker C12 LaTurbie
-Spyker C12 Zagato
-Volkswagen Phaeton W12
-Volkswagen Touareg W12
-Volkswagen W12
VW also produced the W12 themselves and didn't have to get Mercury Marine to build it
LOL!
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
22 years ago the L-98 and LT-5 powered Corvettes set world records for endurance. Why hasn't any German car manufacturer even attempted to break these records if their cars are known for "German V8 will run at WOT all day long for hundreds of thousands of miles without complaint" on the autobahn ?
http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/specs/c4/zr1/record.html
That record is currently held by VW, who broke it in 2001.
Quote:
VOLKSWAGEN W12 COUPE BREAKS 24-HOUR WORLD SPEED RECORD
Volkswagen is the new world speed record holder! Unbelievable but true. On October 14, a team of engineers from the German giant headed by project manager Rudolf-Helmut Strozyk let loose race drivers Dieter Depping (Germany) and Jean-Francois Hemroulle in a specially built W12 coupe on the famous Fiat-owned Nardo test circuit in the south of Italy. The car ran non-stop for more than 24 hours to prove not only the strong feature of the six-litre W12 powerplant (with 600bhp and 620Nm of torque at its disposal) and the six-speed sequential shift transmission but also that Volkswagen managed to better the world speed record over 24 hours even though it lost 40 minutes to a broken diffuser.
Running flat out, the W12 (fuelled by Shell and shod with standard production Pirelli tyres), the W12 covered 7,985.7 kilometres at an average speed of 295.24kmph for 24 hours, this being a new world speed record. If that was not all, the W12 also broke the world speed record for 5000km and 5000 miles at an average speed of 295.44kmph and 291.87kmph respectively.
If that wasn't all, the W12 broke six other class records including the one hour record which it took at an average speed of 310.99kmph; the 6-hour record at 311.58kmph; the 500 kilometres at 307.64kmph; the 500 miles at 308.81kmph; the 1000 kilometres at 311.09kmph and the 1000 miles at 311.51kmph.
Great reads, both of them. I remember the Corvette story. Wasn't there also a 454 pickup that held some endurance record as well?
What vehicle does the W12 come in? Would "none" be accurate? Hardly as much of an accomplishment as the Corvette. It also broke. Oh well.
It broke a diffuser....
The Corvette lost a rad hose.
I'd say both are pretty minor issues considering.
And the VAG W12 is used in far more cars than the LT5 was:
-Audi A8L W12
-Bentley Continental GT
-Bentley Continental Flying Spur
-Spyker C12 LaTurbie
-Spyker C12 Zagato
-Volkswagen Phaeton W12
-Volkswagen Touareg W12
-Volkswagen W12
VW also produced the W12 themselves and didn't have to get Mercury Marine to build it
Originally Posted By: rslifkin
Uh, the W12 has been used in a few vehicles. Phaetons, Audi A8s, Bently Continental GT and Flying Spur (in twin turbo form).
So, safe to say, no vehicles anyone on here could afford. It's unrealistic to compare, that was my point. I'm not trying to turn this into some kind of cost thing, but I don't see the W12 as a relevant engine to a true "production" vehicle.
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
It broke a diffuser....
The Corvette lost a rad hose.
I'd say both are pretty minor issues considering.
Fair enough. I didn't want to assume I knew what kind of "diffuser" they were talking about.
The point here ultimately is that German cars don't have some kind of magical engineers who know something that the rest of the world has missed out on. They can all build engines and drivetrains that can sustain high speeds. I would be willing to bet you could take a bottom end Honda Civic, Toyota Yaris, Ford Focus, Chevy Cruze and mat the throttle and it would be a LOOOONG time before anything gave out.
An earlier point I was trying to make was that regular German cars - most VW models, BMW 3 and 5 series, Mercedes C, E class cars that are sold to people (not any special models) are no more suited to high speed driving than anything else. I've spent enough time driving BMW's to know they're nice to drive but they aren't magically more planted than anything else of comparable size and price at high speeds. I'm not trying to discount the boys at M and AMG but it's a different animal.
Uh, the W12 has been used in a few vehicles. Phaetons, Audi A8s, Bently Continental GT and Flying Spur (in twin turbo form).
So, safe to say, no vehicles anyone on here could afford. It's unrealistic to compare, that was my point. I'm not trying to turn this into some kind of cost thing, but I don't see the W12 as a relevant engine to a true "production" vehicle.
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
It broke a diffuser....
The Corvette lost a rad hose.
I'd say both are pretty minor issues considering.
Fair enough. I didn't want to assume I knew what kind of "diffuser" they were talking about.
The point here ultimately is that German cars don't have some kind of magical engineers who know something that the rest of the world has missed out on. They can all build engines and drivetrains that can sustain high speeds. I would be willing to bet you could take a bottom end Honda Civic, Toyota Yaris, Ford Focus, Chevy Cruze and mat the throttle and it would be a LOOOONG time before anything gave out.
An earlier point I was trying to make was that regular German cars - most VW models, BMW 3 and 5 series, Mercedes C, E class cars that are sold to people (not any special models) are no more suited to high speed driving than anything else. I've spent enough time driving BMW's to know they're nice to drive but they aren't magically more planted than anything else of comparable size and price at high speeds. I'm not trying to discount the boys at M and AMG but it's a different animal.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: cchase
Originally Posted By: rslifkin
Uh, the W12 has been used in a few vehicles. Phaetons, Audi A8s, Bently Continental GT and Flying Spur (in twin turbo form).
So, safe to say, no vehicles anyone on here could afford. It's unrealistic to compare, that was my point. I'm not trying to turn this into some kind of cost thing, but I don't see the W12 as a relevant engine to a true "production" vehicle.
But the LT5 from ZR-1 which was used in one production car of which there were 6,939 made and cost upward of $70K is somehow more relevant?
Quote:
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
It broke a diffuser....
The Corvette lost a rad hose.
I'd say both are pretty minor issues considering.
Fair enough. I didn't want to assume I knew what kind of "diffuser" they were talking about.
The point here ultimately is that German cars don't have some kind of magical engineers who know something that the rest of the world has missed out on. They can all build engines and drivetrains that can sustain high speeds. I would be willing to bet you could take a bottom end Honda Civic, Toyota Yaris, Ford Focus, Chevy Cruze and mat the throttle and it would be a LOOOONG time before anything gave out.
Right. The point I do agree with is that that the German cars typically feel more composed at that speed. I've never argued that the same couldn't be done (sustained top speeds) in other marques however.
Originally Posted By: rslifkin
Uh, the W12 has been used in a few vehicles. Phaetons, Audi A8s, Bently Continental GT and Flying Spur (in twin turbo form).
So, safe to say, no vehicles anyone on here could afford. It's unrealistic to compare, that was my point. I'm not trying to turn this into some kind of cost thing, but I don't see the W12 as a relevant engine to a true "production" vehicle.
But the LT5 from ZR-1 which was used in one production car of which there were 6,939 made and cost upward of $70K is somehow more relevant?
Quote:
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
It broke a diffuser....
The Corvette lost a rad hose.
I'd say both are pretty minor issues considering.
Fair enough. I didn't want to assume I knew what kind of "diffuser" they were talking about.
The point here ultimately is that German cars don't have some kind of magical engineers who know something that the rest of the world has missed out on. They can all build engines and drivetrains that can sustain high speeds. I would be willing to bet you could take a bottom end Honda Civic, Toyota Yaris, Ford Focus, Chevy Cruze and mat the throttle and it would be a LOOOONG time before anything gave out.
Right. The point I do agree with is that that the German cars typically feel more composed at that speed. I've never argued that the same couldn't be done (sustained top speeds) in other marques however.
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