M1 AFE 0w-20 basestock content

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Do we know what type of base stocks this oil has? It has great MRV specs so that makes one think it has some group 4 or 5...can anyone confirm the base stocks used
 
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Well no one knows for sure except EM. But we can make educated guesses. For example, the M1 EP 0w20 has the same pour point as GC 0w30, which is -54C for both. Make of that what you want to. I don't know why M1 doesn't list the pour point for the AFE line, but it does have other similar specs as the EP line so maybe there is some correlation there.
 
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stranger706, XOM doesn't list the pour point for 0W-20 AFE, but they do for 0W-30 AFE (-50C), so I would say the 0W-20 AFE probably matches the 0W-20 EP pour point of -54C. Gary
 
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The Mobil 1 0W-20 MSDS says it has a pour point of -48°C (-54°F). The Mobil 1 EP 0W-20 PDS says it has a pour point of -54°C (-65°F). On the Mobil 1 0W-20 EP MSDS sheet it says "1-DECENE, HOMOPOLYMER HYDROGENATED 60-70%". From what I have gathered, this is a form of PAO which would be a Group 4 oil. I emailed Mobil regarding the MRV for the 0W-20 EP since they publish that data for the AFE 0W-20 but not for the EP. They said "This information is considered proprietary." Go figure. The MSDS for the EP formula lists the PAO information but the MSDS for the AFE version doesn't. I can only assume it has a good amount of PAO but just not as much as the EP version. The flash point of the EP (235°C) is also higher than AFE (224°C). They also may indicate the higher PAO% of the EP over the AFE.
 
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gonefishing, Good catch!! I guess there would have to be some improvement in the base stock (oxidative stability, etc.) for the EP oil, given its 15000 mile claim. It sure does have similar specs to the AFE, which makes sense as the AFE is a quality product as well. I've got the 0W-20 EP in a 2008 Honda R18 engine. Running it for two cycles of the MM with a Fram Ultra filter so we'll see whether the 15000 mile claim is marketing hype. If it doesn't look good it's back to PYB in that engine, as using the EP version is not cost effective to me if I can't double the OCI. But I'm betting it will be fine. Gary
 
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Originally Posted By: gonefishing
I emailed Mobil regarding the MRV for the 0W-20 EP since they publish that data for the AFE 0W-20 but not for the EP. They said "This information is considered proprietary." Go figure.
If you felt a little obstinate, you could push that request up the line. I'm no expert on intellectual property protection, but considering that MRV is part of testing for grade, I can hardly see how it's proprietary information.
 
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Originally Posted By: gonefishing
The Mobil 1 0W-20 MSDS says it has a pour point of -48°C (-54°F). The Mobil 1 EP 0W-20 PDS says it has a pour point of -54°C (-65°F). On the Mobil 1 0W-20 EP MSDS sheet it says "1-DECENE, HOMOPOLYMER HYDROGENATED 60-70%". From what I have gathered, this is a form of PAO which would be a Group 4 oil. I emailed Mobil regarding the MRV for the 0W-20 EP since they publish that data for the AFE 0W-20 but not for the EP. They said "This information is considered proprietary." Go figure. The MSDS for the EP formula lists the PAO information but the MSDS for the AFE version doesn't. I can only assume it has a good amount of PAO but just not as much as the EP version. The flash point of the EP (235°C) is also higher than AFE (224°C). They also may indicate the higher PAO% of the EP over the AFE.
I had the same exchange with Mobil on this subject. What goes into an MSDS isn't exactly optional and the Mobil rep said they disclose what is required. So, if "1-Decene..." is a substance requiring disclosure, if M1 AFE has it, it should be disclosed, too. So either AFE doesn't have PAO at all, or it comes in a different form. Interestingly, other grades of M1 EP don't disclose "1-Decene..., either. In any event, if you have an engine for which 0w/20 is appropriate, M1 EP with 60-70% Group 4 base stocks sure looks like a good choice.
 
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Originally Posted By: gonefishing
The MSDS for the EP formula lists the PAO information but the MSDS for the AFE version doesn't. I can only assume it has a good amount of PAO but just not as much as the EP version.
I found some new information that I thought I would add to this post. For whatever reason, today I decided to go back and look at the Mobil 1 0W-20 MSDS. Looks like it has been updated. The MSDS now lists base stock composition. You have to download the MSDS files so I can't link directly to the information. Instead I screen captured this information and uploaded it as a picture: Just like the EP version of Mobil 1 0W-20, "1-DECENE, HOMOPOLYMER HYDROGENATED" is now listed under composition. If you do a search on this chemical, you will find that it is a form of PAO base stock. The concentration is "30 - < 40%" versus the "60 - 70%" on the MSDS for the EP version: I guess it would be safe to say that Mobil 1 EP 0W-20 contains about twice the amount of PAO as the regular Mobil 1 0W-20 (assuming this MSDS information is correct).
 

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Originally Posted By: gonefishing
I guess it would be safe to say that Mobil 1 EP 0W-20 contains about twice the amount of PAO as the regular Mobil 1 0W-20 (assuming this MSDS information is correct).
Then you would also have to assume that AFE is the same as regular Mobil 1. Cool find though! I apologize, please disregard. I misread your post. Consequently, I looked up the MSDS for M1 5w20 and it lists 20-30%, had to see as there has been much speculation that AFE used better base stocks than M1.
 
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Originally Posted By: gonefishing
Originally Posted By: gonefishing
The MSDS for the EP formula lists the PAO information but the MSDS for the AFE version doesn't. I can only assume it has a good amount of PAO but just not as much as the EP version.
I found some new information that I thought I would add to this post. For whatever reason, today I decided to go back and look at the Mobil 1 0W-20 MSDS. Looks like it has been updated. The MSDS now lists base stock composition. You have to download the MSDS files so I can't link directly to the information. Instead I screen captured this information and uploaded it as a picture: Just like the EP version of Mobil 1 0W-20, "1-DECENE, HOMOPOLYMER HYDROGENATED" is now listed under composition. If you do a search on this chemical, you will find that it is a form of PAO base stock. The concentration is "30 - < 40%" versus the "60 - 70%" on the MSDS for the EP version: I guess it would be safe to say that Mobil 1 EP 0W-20 contains about twice the amount of PAO as the regular Mobil 1 0W-20 (assuming this MSDS information is correct).
That is correct, the EP is using a good amount of PAO. They detergent level is higher as well. Thanks for posting the updated MSDS.
 
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Originally Posted By: buster
That is correct, the EP is using a good amount of PAO. They detergent level is higher as well. Thanks for posting the updated MSDS.
Hmmm, maybe I will use the jug of this I have stashed to mix with the M1 0w-40 for my winter OCI, instead of either the Sustina 0W-20, or the TGMO, despite the EP's much lower VI ( hide ) than either of those two products?
 
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I'm running M1 0w40 year round in my Subaru beater. It runs great on this grade. The new EP formulations look more robust than before and appear to be using 60-70% PAO now.
 
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Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: buster
That is correct, the EP is using a good amount of PAO. They detergent level is higher as well. Thanks for posting the updated MSDS.
Hmmm, maybe I will use the jug of this I have stashed to mix with the M1 0w-40 for my winter OCI, instead of either the Sustina 0W-20, or the TGMO, despite the EP's much lower VI ( hide ) than either of those two products?
If you want the lightest oil on start-up in your climate you're definitely going to want to stick with Sustina with TGMO a secondary choice. M1 AFE is not in the same league.
 
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