M+M M10X hybrid rifle

[Astro14]

I first saw one of these a month ago, when visiting family. It's a very interesting hybrid of AK chambering and basic design, AK parts, with monolithic upper and improved, adjustable gas system and refined trigger.

I was never interested in getting an AK, because of their reputation for loose fit and poor accuracy... "Only accurate guns are interesting" - Townsend Wheelen. The AK gas system and bolt are reliable in rough conditions, that's admirable, but 4 MOA, or worse, just didn't really catch my attention or interest.

Enter the M10X. Made well, tight fit, better than 1 MOA accuracy, nice trigger, reduced parts count, adjustable gas system. Uses many AK parts, including magazines, runs on 7.62x39 ammo.

I just bought one. Mounted a scope on it. Haven't had it at an outdoor range yet, so ultimate accuracy is still to be determined, but the rifle shoots well, has been flawlessly reliable, and feels nice.

I like it. Never thought I would like anything like an AK, but the hybrid approach of US manufacturing, better engineering, reduction in parts, and improved design have yielded a very impressive rifle.

You can visit the company website here:

M10X Semi-Automatic Rifles | 7.62x39 Caliber Rifle | M+M Industries

Looking for a semi-automatic rifle in 7.62x39 caliber? Choose the precision-built M10X from M+M Industries!

mm-industries.com

 

[AutoMechanic]

Very nice Astro. We have an AK as well. Can’t remember the exact model. Hasn’t even been shot once.

 

[OVERKILL]

Thanks for the share!

 

[OilReport99]

Nice concept. Congrats! Time will only tell about reliability [as compared to the proven AK's]

 

[SZR48207]

What are you gonna shoot through it? Hopes and dreams? Ammo market is still crap.

 

[Astro14]

What are you gonna shoot through it? Hopes and dreams? Ammo market is still crap.

I'm good on ammo.

Thanks.

 

[Astro14]

I’ve since added a thicker/higher cheek rest on the Magpul Zhukov stock, a Magpul angled fore grip, magpul AK pistol grip, scope, Aero Precision scope mount, sling, different flash hider (5/8x24 threads make this easy), and have a Limb saver recoil pad to add to the stock.

I wanted a scope with a 7.62x39 reticle, 1-4 magnification as this isn’t a long range gun, but a tactical one, and I didn’t want to spend a ton of money.

I got this: https://hi-luxoptics.com/collection...-lux-optics-close-to-medium-range-series-cmr1.

So far, it’s crisp and clear, and I like the reticle. It’s plenty bright on an indoor range, though I suspect it wouldn’t be bright enough to see the illumination on a sunny day outdoors. The reticle is etched, so it’s still useable in bright light, just not as high contrast.

 

[wpod]

While I don't have an Kalisnikov it would be nice to just have one because.

 

[spasm3]

I have an AR chambered in 7.62 x 39. I like the round. That gun looks very nice!

 

[Astro14]

Update - four range sessions in the past week.

The M10X has been jamming, on average, every couple of rounds. I even changed bolts to a new boron-nitride bolt.

No better.

It‘s been carefully cleaned and lubricated after each range session. The gas port has been checked. Gas system cleaned. I’ve tried four different kinds of ammo, three different magazines, suppressor and unsuppressed, and every gas setting, without substantial difference.

My last box of 20 rounds had nine failures. Nine. Picture of the crushed rounds shown below.

My initial excitement has worn off. It’s unreliable. It doesn’t work.

It’s still a soft shooter. Still has a nice trigger. It’s still got good ergonomics, but the only way it works now is if you turn off the gas at the regulator, and make it into a spring-loaded, left handed, straight pull bolt gun with a magazine.

It goes back to M+m today.

 

[Astro14]

For you, @OVERKILL - be careful. This one is available in Canada because it’s not yet banned.

While I would have recommended it when I first got it, I cannot recommend it now.

When I get it back from M+M, I’ll update everyone.

 

[Astro14]

UPDATE: After a month in which nothing was heard, I reached out to M+M.

They called me, apologetic for the lack of communication, blaming a computer system change over. I’m not questioning that, it’s entirely plausible.

The shop has looked over my rifle - finding that the upper receiver was out of spec on the rails. This was my suspicion, as the inside edge of the rails was rough, and I suspected that the BCG was binding on the rearward stroke.

The shop replaced the upper receiver, barrel, and gas components.

No charge.

It is being shipped back and arrives this week (UPS tracking number in hand). Also, no charge.

I look forward to trying it out and will update.

I’m honestly relived that they found something and even more so that what they found aligned with my perception of the problem.

That gives me some confidence that they’ve remedied the problem.

Range report and update once I’ve got the rifle in hand.

 

[CharlesInCharge]

In the AK community, M+M is known to be low quality, so that was the first mistake. Mistake #2 is being a beta-tester on a "new and improved" item, which is almost universally signing up for problems. Error #3 is the fact that almost no American companies have cracked the code on making great AKs, with the exception of Palmetto State.

But the biggest error is the underlying mis-belief based on internet lore that the AK47 has unacceptable accuracy. That's false information spread on the internet. The AK is a sufficiently accurate battle rifle. OP himself said he's not intending to use it for "long range." Yet folks get overly fixated on "MOA" in spite of the fact it's an intermediate rifle designed for close proximity defense (read: 50 yards, 100 yards, 200 yards being the extreme exception). FYI this reported "inaccuracy" of the AK is generally largely due to cheap surplus ammunition. When shopping for a "battle rifle" reliability is paramount. Acceptable accuracy of 2-4 MOA is perfectly fine if the rifle goes "bang" every time and puts rounds on a pie plate at 100 yards, which even 4 MOA will do. And MOA can generally be improved with higher quality ammo, by at least 1 MOA. And again, ultra simplicity and reliability was their selling point. Complaining about the crude design is like complaining that a Ford F250 is not a good race car. It's not built for that, but it is very good at the role it was designed for: A simple, reliable, rifle of very acceptable accuracy at 300 yards.

How often is one realistically preparing to shoot his "battle rifle" in lawful defense, 100, 200, or 300 yards. Truthfully, those are extreme extremely rare situations short of warfare.

To the OP, hang in there. Good luck. Lumps taken, lessons learned. The AK, even the "junk" AKs - we're learning that there was some special sauce in those WASRs, VEPRs, Norincos, Serbian OPAPs and NPAPs, etc. They are very very very good weapons, ultra reliable, and offer perfectly acceptable accuracy for their intended purpose.

A pie plate is what, 12 inches? Human head is same size, torso is larger, etc. That means 4 MOA will hit the pie plate every time at 300 yards if the shooter does his part.

Buy a nice AK and be done with it, unless you're desperately chasing tiny MOA numbers in which case get a precision rifle. Nice Serbian NPAPs and Palmetto AKs can be had for around $1000 which is very reasonable, and they'll be ultra reliable and provide perfectly acceptable accuracy at a couple hundred yards, probably ~3 MOA with good ammo and practice.

 

[Astro14]

Go back to the original post. It wasn’t bought out of ignorance, but from a family member recommendation.

This particular person is a successful, sponsored competitive shooter.

I am not, though I do compete on occasion.

I don’t mind the beta testing part. I knew that I would be beta testing it to some degree. $1,500 on a rifle isn’t a deal killer for me. I am still intrigued by the Sig gas system adjustability.

I still like the ergonomics and the good trigger of this rifle.

I still loathe the stamped steel, cheap construction, and farm implement feel of every AK I’ve ever held or shot. I’m still not interested in one.

Most of my Garands shoot about two MOA, and I have reasonable expectations of battle rifle performance. My M1D shoots a little better, and the scope removes iron sights as a limitation.

I do have one Garand that I built for accuracy - lapped bolt, new barrel, tight stock fit, tight gas cylinder fit, and crisp trigger - under the supervision of the CMP
during their advanced maintenance class.

The person I spoke with last week about this rifle was very pleasant. Very helpful.

If I was serious about needing a defensive rifle, my AR-10 would be my go to. I prefer the 7.62x51 round for that purpose.

For close range, or indoors, it would be the .300 BLK Daniel Defense.

Whether I intend to use it for defense, or not, I expect every rifle, actually, every gun, I own to run reliably.

I’ve had quite a few guns, from 1911s and 3rd gen S&W, to M1 Garands, that needed some sorting and TLC before they ran properly. Some new. Most not.

All work properly now, with this M+M 10 as the one outlier.

Unless you’ve owned one, opinions like “everyone knows they’re garbage” are worthless. Like opinions on certain car brands by drivers that have never driven one, they’re often just internet regurgitation of other’s opinion.

The rifle arrives end of this week. I hope to get a chance to try it out with the new upper, etc.

 

[Astro14]

The rifle arrived Thursday. I took it to the range Friday. It ran great. I only put 50 rounds through it, as my scope, a LVPO which I remounted on the rifle, was way off, and there is a problem with the elevation turret. So, I felt like I was wasting rounds.

So, on gas "1", the normal position, with brass ammo (a bit lower powered, usually, than steel) it ran without a hiccup. "2" is the cold weather/more gas position.

The rifle gas system allows you to run it on 1, or 2, but it also has three pre-drilled holes in the regulator. Those holes can be adjusted (drilled out) to balance the gas for a suppressor. I spoke with the guy on the phone about that for a bit, and that's why they put those holes in there. They're intended to be too small initially, so that they can be incrementally increased (I've got a set of wire size drill bits for just such purposes) to work with my chosen suppressor. For now, I am happy that the rifle runs. I'll worry about customizing gas settings later, but it is nice to know that the capability was built in to the system.

As I mentioned above, they replaced the part of the upper receiver on which the bolt carrier rides. They found it out of spec, which was my suspicion all along.

They also replaced the bolt, carrier, barrel, gas piston and gas cylinder.

This part is important: They included every single thing that I had sent them: spare magazines, the extra bolt, even the cases, in the rifle case in which I had sent it. That was much more conscientious than I've seen from gun companies in other instances.

They also included an M+M hat, and some swag, included stickers, a patch, and nice tactical light.

So, while I haven't really put the rifle through its paces since I got it back, and I am now at work, so I won't for a while, I am very pleased with their warranty support.

M+M found what I had suspected: a defective upper receiver. They replaced it, and several other parts. They returned my rifle with care.

And I didn't even pay for shipping.

Opinions may vary on the reliability or utility of this rifle. I will simply say this: I bought the rifle used, and the company stood behind their product.

That's a company I can endorse. I feel much better about the whole situation. I like the rifle again.

Now, I just need to figure out why my scope is jacked up...

 

[Astro14]

A quick update. April 17, 2023 Range day.

100 rounds of GECO 7.62x39. Ran great.

I‘ve got a fixed 3X optic on it now. https://www.primaryarms.com/primary...m-scope-with-acss-cqb-300blk-762x39mm-reticle

The scope was replaced under warranty, but I have been shooting the fixed reticle prism and like it. I might go back to the LVPO at some future point.

 

[Astro14]

Another range day with the M10X. I need to qualify next week with my duty weapon, so I really was focused on shooting the Glock 19, but I decided to drag the M10X along since I hadn’t shot it in a while. Still running the Primary Arms 3x fixed prism optic. It’s a nice clear sight picture. Good reticle. This optic:

Primary Arms SLx 3x32mm Gen III Prism Scope - ACSS CQB Reticle - 7.62x39 / .300 BLK

DetailsThis Primary Arms prism scope is part of the SLx optics line. SLx optics have built a reputation for innovation, reliability, and value. All SLx optics undergo rigorous field-testing during development to best serve you in any environment.The Primary Arms Gen III 3X Compact Prism Scope...

www.primaryarms.com

100 rounds of Norma brass ammunition. Good functioning no issues with magazines or rifle operation. Two interesting notes.

1. The Schmeisser magazine doesn’t fit the mag well. This is unfortunate, as the magazine wasn’t cheap. The promise of holding 60 rounds is interesting, but I found that the Schmeisser not only does not fit the mag well, but it is a real pain to load. The magazine spring on it is incredibly strong. I have no problem with the regular 30 round AK magazine, but I could not get to 60 rounds. I stopped at 50 on the Schmeisser only to discover that it doesn’t fit.

2. The accuracy on this rifle leaves a lot to be desired. Today, for the first time, I put it on a sandbag and was shooting for accuracy. I had been concerned with function before, and was shooting off hand. Normally, with an M1, say, or AR, everything at 25 yards is in about a three-quarter of an inch hole. That’s what I would expect from a battle rifle. That’s 2 to 3 MOA accuracy. Good enough. On an indoor range, my ability to assess is somewhat limited anyway.

This thing, however, threw the rounds all over the place, mostly left and right, but it was more like a 3 inch group at 25 yards. I’m pretty sure it wasn’t shooter error, I was just there shooting my BM 59 last week and had a quarter sized group using the iron sights.

When I strip and clean it this afternoon, I’ll take a good look at the optic mounting. The optic was roughly zeroed when installed, and I can’t feel any play, but there is something seriously wrong with this rifle’s accuracy. Reckon I’ll start the investigation there. I’ve heard that receiver to lower fit is an issue was well, so, I will give that a look, too.

 

[umungus1122]

I first saw one of these a month ago, when visiting family. It's a very interesting hybrid of AK chambering and basic design, AK parts, with monolithic upper and improved, adjustable gas system and refined trigger.

I was never interested in getting an AK, because of their reputation for loose fit and poor accuracy... "Only accurate guns are interesting" - Townsend Wheelen. The AK gas system and bolt are reliable in rough conditions, that's admirable, but 4 MOA, or worse, just didn't really catch my attention or interest.

Enter the M10X. Made well, tight fit, better than 1 MOA accuracy, nice trigger, reduced parts count, adjustable gas system. Uses many AK parts, including magazines, runs on 7.62x39 ammo.

I just bought one. Mounted a scope on it. Haven't had it at an outdoor range yet, so ultimate accuracy is still to be determined, but the rifle shoots well, has been flawlessly reliable, and feels nice.

I like it. Never thought I would like anything like an AK, but the hybrid approach of US manufacturing, better engineering, reduction in parts, and improved design have yielded a very impressive rifle.

You can visit the company website here:

M10X Semi-Automatic Rifles | 7.62x39 Caliber Rifle | M+M Industries

Looking for a semi-automatic rifle in 7.62x39 caliber? Choose the precision-built M10X from M+M Industries!

mm-industries.com

It's the ammo that gives the majority of AK platforms a reputation for poor accuracy. Have you ever loaded match ammunition and put it through an AK? Most will do less than 2", especially the better made variety like Yugos and Arsenal. Most ARs will shoot 4" groups when using M193 or M855 ball ammo as well.

 

[Astro14]

It's the ammo that gives the majority of AK platforms a reputation for poor accuracy. Have you ever loaded match ammunition and put it through an AK? Most will do less than 2", especially the better made variety like Yugos and Arsenal. Most ARs will shoot 4" groups when using M193 or M855 ball ammo as well.

That’s a good point on the ammo - and I had thought that the Norma was pretty decent, but it’s certainly not match ammo.

Also, I’m at 25 yards, indoor range, and extrapolating to 100 yards, and I know there are errors in that extrapolation. I would feel much better assessing accuracy at 100 yards. For example, I shoot a 1” group with a Garand at an indoor range, so, I reckon that it’s a 4 MOA rifle, but that same rifle at the 50 yard line turned in, yep, a 1” group, so, it’s much more of a 2 MOA rifle.

Problem with this thing is the 3-4” groups at 25 yards, when a BM-59E (A Garand with a magazine chambered in 7.62x51) turned in a 1” group, at the same range, with the same shooter, same set-up, using mil-surp 7.62x51 last week.

So, while extrapolation to 100 yard performance is prone to errors, direct rifle to rifle comparison suggests that my BM-59E is at least twice, and likely three or four time, as accurate as this one.

That result saddens and puzzles me. A battle rifle is a battle rifle…isn’t it? The Garand has acceptable accuracy, using mil-surp ammo.

The M-10X does not. I only wish I had thought to bring a variety of ammo. PPU, Red Army, something, with which to compare with the Norma. I have had some guns that just plain don’t like a certain brand of ammo. Perhaps that is the case here.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

That’s a good point on the ammo - and I had thought that the Norma was pretty decent, but it’s certainly not match ammo.

Also, I’m at 25 yards, indoor range, and extrapolating to 100 yards, and I know there are errors in that extrapolation. I would feel much better assessing accuracy at 100 yards. For example, I shoot a 1” group with a Grand at an indoor range, so, I reckon that it’s a 4 MOA rifle, but that same rifle at the 50 yard line turned in, yep, a 1” group, so, it’s much more of a 2 MOA rifle.

Problem with this thing is the 3-4” groups at 25 yards, when a BM-59E (A Garand with a magazine chambered in 7.62x51) turned in a 1” group, at the same range, with the same shooter, same set-up, using mil-surp 7.62x51 last week.

So, while extrapolation to 100 yard performance is prone to errors, direct rifle to rifle comparison suggests that my BM-59E is at least twice, and likely three or four time, as accurate as this one.

That result saddens and puzzles me. A battle rifle is a battle rifle…isn’t it? The Garand has acceptable accuracy, using mil-surp ammo.

The M-10X does not. I only wish I had thought to bring a variety of ammo. PPU, Red Army, something, with which to compare with the Norma. I have had some guns that just plain don’t like a certain brand of ammo. Perhaps that is the case here.

I’ve got a fairly old M&M AK (2010 maybe?) built on a CUGIR stamped receiver, with a folding wire stock. Call it psychological remnants of growing up in Gary, IN

Anyways, it’s a 3-4” @ 100 yards in my hands, with Tula Ammo that cost me about $0.18/round, and not really expecting anything better. But I agree, with a sexy, all-billet AK like you’ve had, I’d expect better as well. Any chance of sending it to Rifle Dynamics and having them tune it up for you? I know Jim is gone from ownership now, but it seems he’s still active in the business AFAIK.

I can tell you right now if there was any chance I was dropping more than $1.5k on an AK, it would absolutely have to have a Rifle Dynamics logo on it; even more so than Arsenal. Anyways, it “looks” like a really nice rifle, but I can certainly understand the letdown with its performance.