Defensive Rifle Zero Distance, Dont think that military zero is correct for you!

burbguy82

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There is much discussion on this topic amongst those want to know, figured I would share my thoughts on a rifle's zero. A recent question/argument of a friend prompted me to bring this up, in hopes that it will help folks here, to have a bit more effective system, and an understanding of a applicable zero distance to a defensive rifle AKA assault rifle, also known as "combat zero". The following applies to any rifle of nearly any typical caliber commonly used in firearms that fit the moniker. Rifle such as the Ar15 family, AK family, M1/M14 , and so on. This will even work with safari style bolt guns, where a heart shot is critical.

There is much discussion about zero distance, and many of those on here are veterans. If you used an M16 variant is basic training, you will remember that the military zero distance is 25 yards......and that zero holds good out to 300 yards. While this is true, to a point, this generalization is not practical to a non military user, such as someone who owns a rifle for defense.

The thought of the 25/300 yard zero, comes from and engagement standpoint where as one unit would encounter opposition, in a ambush situation. Visualize if you will, one person lying in wait, in a prone position (lying down), aiming at another person, to whom is just walking about in a field. The military 25/300 yard zero works in this application, but only for the first shot. Why the first shot? Well because, when you get shot at in the field, the first thing that is thought during a "react to contact drill" is to get down to the ground, and seek cover\concealment.....

The 25\300 yard zero, yields a 12 inch spread, vertically, I have included a generalized graphic below to help explain.

1738968972549.webp


As you can see by the graphic, the typical 25 yard zero ....to impact at point of aim, or within 4'' of point of aim (4 inches is the accepted accuracy level of typical rifles with typical ammo) requires several different points of aim.........to put this in another way........if you zero at 25 yards, as per military spec, and hold your sights on a coke can at 100 yards, you will not hit the can....and even worse, with a 25/300 yard zero, any distance that you are shooting at that is not 25 or 300......you will have to hold low, sometimes, (at the 75-150 yard range) way low 10-12 inches low depending on certain variables. It is hard to adjust point of aim on the fly, if you are overshooting and not seeing any impacts.

Lets face it guys, if we as civilians have to shoot, we want to hit what we are aiming at, and not just in a general sense. Whether is just for fun, shooting clay targets, popper steel, tannerite, deer or other soft targets......or even having to take a quick precise shot.....we need to be accurate. You need to hit the target or miss low, so you can witness, and adjust.

I recommend the 100 yard zero. Why? As in the above graphic, you will see that the point of aim and point of impact on the 100 yard zero, with exception to the 300 yard distance, are basically in a nice neat cluster. (Yes the 200 yard is similar, but there are issues using the 200 zero which i will get to in a minute). Also, all shots after 100 will impact low............why is this good......again you can see the splash and adjust as needed. A splash right in front of the target, sometimes is just enough to turn a threat into a non threat. it is also intuitive .......the longer the shot, the higher you will have to aim after 200.

Whether it is in the woods in Alabama as a hunter, or in a shopping mall full of people as a cop, 200 yards is just about all you really are going to get. Any farther and target recognition is a problem. An ethical shot is hard to sell, without optics beyond 200 yards, even with supreme eyesight.

With the 100 yard zero, ethical accurate shots can be made, point of aim/point of impact, from danger close, out to 200 yards, no thinking, no weird holdovers etc.

Why not 200? Well, most public rifle ranges are typically 100 yards, and even if you can get to 200 yards range........the effects of wind can have a drastic effect on a true zero......better to omit as many variables as possible.

So how can someone obtain this universal zero, without having the distance to shoot at 100 yards? Well you cant really, but you can get close. Typical indoor ranges are 25 yards. At 25 yards, a roughly close 100 yards zero, will be close (slightly less) to the same distance as your sights as above the bore of the gun......it is that simple. So if your sights are about 2 inches higher than the bore, the impact on target with be just less than 2'' below the point of aim. Is it perfect, no, but it will get you close...............

1738971827595.webp


Anyway this is long enough........
 
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Whether it's hunting or self defense, terrain and surroundings play big role. When hunting in wooded area you will likely not even see a target past 100yards due to trees or other obstructions. Same in the city, obstructions or/and bystanders greatly limit distance. Open field is a different story.
Also, if scope is used it can be easily and quickly dialed in for distance using DOPE card to match POA and POI up to some distance due to shot inclination and wind.
 
Not meaning to be a jerk here, but I fail to see the practical use of this for a defensive rifle. In all the news reports and videos of civilian shootings I’ve never seen a report of a non-military defensive use of a firearm at a significant distance outdoors.

Good luck avoiding prison if you shoot someone who is 25 yards away, unless your living room is 76 feet wide. And if they are outside your efforts are probably better spent seeking cover.
 
What is the close end of the 100yd zero? Instead of 25/300 are you recommending something like 20/100?
 
Not meaning to be a jerk here, but I fail to see the practical use of this for a defensive rifle. In all the news reports and videos of civilian shootings I’ve never seen a report of a non-military defensive use of a firearm at a significant distance outdoors.

Good luck avoiding prison if you shoot someone who is 25 yards away, unless your living room is 76 feet wide. And if they are outside your efforts are probably better spent seeking cover.
The post is not so much for defense as it is to hit a small target, without a change in aiming point. It eases the aiming operation of rifle marksmanship.....no holdovers from 0 to 200.......
What is the close end of the 100yd zero? Instead of 25/300 are you recommending something like 20/100?
As noted, the "close" end as you put it, is slightly less than the distance from boreline to sight line. For example, an AK's sight line and bore line are about 1.75 inches from each other..........at 25 yards To closely duplicate 100 yards, I would strive for an impact 1.75-.1.25 lower that my point of aim. That being said, It should be verified fine tuned at 100. This works no matter the caliber.

No not a 25-300 or a 20-200.....this gets rid of all that crap and gives an like aiming point from 0-200.
 
My 6.5mmanbun is zeroed for 264 yards. Its job is to reach out and touch coyotes from up to a half mile away. That way I get a hit out to about 360yd which is the edge of my property without having to worry about over shooting or under shooting.
264 is the bore diameter in thousands of an inch and is about where the zero happens to be so it's rememberable.
My 30-30 is zeroed for 150 yards. So I can take shots out to about 200yard without having to think about it.
Picking the zero is a combination of something you can remember, what the rifle is capable of and terrain or just zero everything at 100.
There is no right way most of the time.
For something like an A2 sighting system you're kind of stuck with 25 and 300, you can get a blank A2 elevation wheel and stamp your own numbers on it if you're super hard core or firing a round that drops like a 22LR.
 
We zeroed 50/200 with an M4/M-16 set of iron sights, not 25/300.

With a 50/20, you’re within an inch and a half from point blank, all the way to 250. No big thinking required.

In fact, when I shoot an AR-type rifle at 25 yards (which is the length of my indoor range), I accept that it’s about an inch low, and I’m looking for consistency, not bullseye hits, at that range, because the rifles are zeroed at 50/200.

One exception - I zero the subsonic 300 Blackout at 25. It’s not going to get used much beyond that, so, at 25, it’s on, and in close, to bad breath distance, it’s within 1.5 inches. Out past 25, to 50, it’s still within 1.5 inches, and it is not intended for long range use, so, 25 yards allows me to zero accurately at the indoor range.
 
Nice post! The range I shoot at is 100 yards on the lower field and every rifle I own is zeroed a 100. Amusingly, my .338LM holds zero out to at least 300 yards with the 100 yard zero, no problem hitting centre of a 4x4" target at that distance with no hold-over.
 
We zeroed our M4 patrol rifles at 50/200. This gave us the most acceptable spread without having to think about achieving perfect POA/POI for every shot, which most shooters did not have the luxury of time to do in a combat situation. Statistically, most of our deployments were in the 30-50 yard range, so 50 yd. was just about perfect for all around use. We also had a 100 yd. rifle range where we could do an actual 50 yd. zero. Our qualification distances were 10-50 yards, and with all but the 10 yard shots, you could still aim center mass and get where you needed to be.
 
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I zero the subsonic 300 Blackout at 25
Over course this would not apply to your football trajectory 300BLK. I think you have a weapon of special purpose, and therefore it needs to have a special considerations. You have a nice setup.
Amusingly, my .338LM holds zero out to at least 300 yards with the 100 yard zero, no problem hitting centre of a 4x4" target at that distance with no hold-over.
Sure, it is a laser, kind of like 220 swift on ultra steroids'as far a trajectory goes. I love hate 338, overall probably the move expensive caliber to shoot, when you factor in barrel destruction.

I have thought about doing an AK or AR in 220 swift

One advantage to this zero distance is the intuitiveness of holdovers after 200 yards. You are always going to be low. The farther you have to shoot, the higher you have to hold up.

We zeroed our M4 patrol rifles at 50/200. This gave us the most acceptable spread without having to think about achieving perfect POA/POI for every shot, which most shooters did not have the luxury of time to do in a combat situation. Statistically, most of our deployments were in the 30-50 yard range, so 50 yd. was just about perfect for all around use. We also had a 100 yd. rifle range where we could do an actual 50 yd. zero. Our qualification distances were 10-50 yards, and with all but the 10 yard shots, you could still aim center mass and get where you needed to be.
There is not much difference in the 50 yard zero. The one thing I would say that is superior in the 100 yards zero, is the distance...you get a bit better true reading of zero. Yet another reason I dont like the 25 yards zero. At 25, it can be difficult to really get a true reading on the group... sometimes you can see this at 100. an itty bitty off at 25, can be pretty big at 100.

Aimpoint red dots have been zeroed at 50 forever as per the book....I still do 100 yards.


Military zero, typically is designed to aim at the belt buckle area........lets say you have to shoot a coyote attacking your chickens at 100 yards.........wear is the belt buckle area of the coyote? To much thought, not enough time to think on holdover.
 
Entirely depends on the next election. Things were looking REALLY good until the recent upset with the leadership change, it's like people have amnesia, infuriating!
I know that the M+M M10 is available in Canada.

But given my experience with it - I am not sure I recommend getting one…

Word on the street is that the 3d generation is pretty reliable. Perhaps your luck would be better than mine.

https://www.recoilweb.com/mm-industries-m10x-review-185807.html
 
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I'll chime in as I have had many friends that are full scale obsessed with military style rifles. It's a great Hobby, and shooting at distance can be challenging for the site impaired. For me these days it is shoot from the hip and ask questions later.
Handgun for me is the way I go, p365 and a P229 shot for my hip at 3 to 10 ft sayonara! I wouldn't want to shoot anybody any further than that and I'm speaking specifically to a self-defense scenario. You come into my property and you will catch a hot one no questions asked.

But If and when the apocalyptic insurgence of the Village People Come Marching up my driveway then that might be a different story!
 
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I never liked the RCOs on our M16s but they definitely made it easier to zero and figure out the range based off an average human's shoulder length.

500 yards with ironsights is pretty easy but I think we set ours to 50 yards after qual.
 
Not meaning to be a jerk here, but I fail to see the practical use of this for a defensive rifle. In all the news reports and videos of civilian shootings I’ve never seen a report of a non-military defensive use of a firearm at a significant distance outdoors.

Good luck avoiding prison if you shoot someone who is 25 yards away, unless your living room is 76 feet wide. And if they are outside your efforts are probably better spent seeking cover.
So what would be the alternative here? Not zeroing in your rifle? I fail to see the problem with doing this. If anything not properly sighting in your weapon and knowing your zero/effective range would be the unpractical choice.
 
25/300 isn’t really a “zero” unless you are talking about a large man size target. A “Real” zero actually marks the true trajectory crossing points.

For most us, the better way to choose a zero distance methodically starts with:
1) selecting the ammo first
2) Then choose the largest “error” that is acceptable based on the target size and your skill.
3) Then choose your zero.

For example, let’s say you are shooting MK262 and have an acceptable error of 2” radially (4” diameter). A 50y will keep you under 2” of error (radially) all the way to 225y with a 2.6” sight height.

The default zero for any personal defensive carbine should be 50y unless you have a reason to select a different value. 50y will give an error less than the height over bore distance all the way to 200+ yard.

Anything farther away, well good luck arguing it was self defense.
 
We zeroed 50/200 with an M4/M-16 set of iron sights, not 25/300.

With a 50/20, you’re within an inch and a half from point blank, all the way to 250. No big thinking required.

In fact, when I shoot an AR-type rifle at 25 yards (which is the length of my indoor range), I accept that it’s about an inch low, and I’m looking for consistency, not bullseye hits, at that range, because the rifles are zeroed at 50/200.

One exception - I zero the subsonic 300 Blackout at 25. It’s not going to get used much beyond that, so, at 25, it’s on, and in close, to bad breath distance, it’s within 1.5 inches. Out past 25, to 50, it’s still within 1.5 inches, and it is not intended for long range use, so, 25 yards allows me to zero accurately at the indoor range.
I joined in 2002 Army Infantry and ever since, it's been 25m zero.
 
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