Lose $500 to save $3500

[avacado11]

Talk some sense into me.

Last week I put a $500 deposit down on a 2014 Ford F-150 V8. Everything on the truck looked good, ran and drove good. It was supposed to be a 2-3 day ordeal. Dealer went to inspect and prepare for registration and it won’t pass emissions due to a CEL. I do not know the CEL code but it has to do with a cold start misfire. Did some research and apparently common problem with the 5.0 - worn valves causing low compression on cold start. There could be a slight possibility of it being coil/plug related but everything is pointing to worn valves. Mainly due to it going away once the engine warms up.

Dealer said they would refund deposit if it needs a valve job and sent it back to their mechanic for diagnosis(they don’t want to pay for a 3k repair either). But who knows if they can rig it to last long enough for me to take delivery.

Now my anxiety is through the roof. I don’t want to buy into another headache. Do I walk, take the $500 loss to avoid buying into a $16k headache/$3000 valve job?

The business side of me is saying take a small loss to avoid a bigger loss. But my personal finance side is trying to not take any losses.

My next option would probably be a 5.7 Hemi or GM 5.3 which both are known to have their own valve train problems. I don’t want to touch Toyota or Nissan due to prior bad experiences with them.

 

[CarLuver]

if they or you can't register it , why would you lose your deposit? the other option is have them fix it , or take the cost of fixing it off the price.

 

[avacado11]

if they or you can't register it , why would you lose your deposit? the other option is have them fix it , or take the cost of fixing it off the price.

The only saving factor right now is the fact the ECU has not set monitors as it keeps detecting the misfire. In the event that the engine is warm and the valves seat correctly it may run good just enough to pass inspection and for me to take delivery without solving the issue at hand. That’s the part that I’m losing sleep on(figuratively).

Purchase contract states 30 day window for delivery otherwise I can get my money back. Otherwise, if I decide to back out I forfeit my deposit. Now if the dealer decides to no sale they can void contract.

 

[DemoFly]

Didn't want a headache, but you're buying a Ford?

 

[avacado11]

Didn't want a headache, but you're buying a Ford?

With how many Ford owners talking about the 5.0 being a good motor I figure I’d give it a try. They failed to mention the valve problems.

 

[samven]

Is this an AS IS sale or are they providing a warranty. Now that you know there is a problem I would want my mechanic to look at it before I took delivery to determine what was really wrong. You should not loose your deposit from a reputable dealer if you change your mind based on a mechanical problem.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

A HEMI is much easier to work on than that Ford V8. People either do weird things with their HEMIs (there is an entire forum dedicated to that lunacy), or they completely neglect them. If you get a HEMI, make sure to give it a good engine cleaning (HPL engine cleaner) and always use the bigger oil filter. The exhaust manifold bolts tend to break but it's not a hard job to replace them. The manifold should be replaced as well when you do that, unless you can take it to a machine shop to rectify it.

Run a good 5W-30 (API SP) or Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 in it and you should be golden. It helps if you run a cooler thermostat in a HEMI. The 205F it comes with is stupid. I run a 180F in ours.

The 8 Speed ZF is golden in the RAM 1500 trucks.

Do your due diligence, and complete fluid changes after you get a used vehicle.

 

[avacado11]

Is this an AS IS sale or are they providing a warranty. Now that you know there is a problem I would want my mechanic to look at it before I took delivery to determine what was really wrong. You should not loose your deposit from a reputable dealer if you change your mind based on a mechanical problem.

They included a 3 month/3k warranty with the purchase prior to the CEL ordeal. But I rather not have to use it as I understand the down time it would create

 

[avacado11]

A HEMI is much easier to work on than that Ford V8. People either do weird things with their HEMIs (there is an entire forum dedicated to that lunacy), or they completely neglect them. If you get a HEMI, make sure to give it a good engine cleaning (HPL engine cleaner) and always use the bigger oil filter. The exhaust manifold bolts tend to break but it's not a hard job to replace them. The manifold should be replaced as well when you do that, unless you can take it to a machine shop to rectify it.

Run a good 5W-30 (API SP) or Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 in it and you should be golden. It helps if you run a cooler thermostat in a HEMI. The 205F it comes with is stupid. I run a 180F in ours.

The 8 Speed ZF is golden in the RAM 1500 trucks.

Do your due diligence, and complete fluid changes after you get a used vehicle.

Coincidently, the same dealer has a 2012 RAM 1500 5.7 for the same price. Worse case I could go for that vehicle but I was considering going somewhere else that has quicker delivery. Only thing that bugged me about it was the extremely rusty trans cooler lines, which I know isn’t a big deal but considering I just sold my Tacoma due to them rotting out it kinda contradicts the whole point of buying another truck lol.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

Coincidently, the same dealer has a 2012 RAM 1500 5.7 for the same price. Worse case I could go for that vehicle but I was considering going somewhere else that has quicker delivery. Only thing that bugged me about it was the extremely rusty trans cooler lines, which I know isn’t a big deal but considering I just sold my Tacoma due to them rotting out it kinda contradicts the whole point of buying another truck lol.

Yeah, don't buy a 2012 RAM 1500. It doesn't have the ZF 8 Speed either. In that case the Ford sounds better.

You need to convince the dealer to drop the price on the Ford due to the valve issues.

 

[avacado11]

Yeah, don't buy a 2012 RAM 1500. It doesn't have the ZF 8 Speed either. In that case the Ford sounds better.

You need to convince the dealer to drop the price on the Ford due to the valve issues.

The problem is I already signed the purchase agreement so everything is written in stone. Any price negotiating would strictly be at the dealers own discretion but honestly if they couldn’t fix the issue I wouldn’t even want it anyways.

I mean it’d be great if they can fix it I have zero complaints. It’s if they try to hide the issue to complete the sale that I have a problem with. Trying to think of ways I can verify the work is done. Figure if I can probably wait til the next day for a cold start before paying or plug in an scanner to see if the monitors are still set.

 

[clinebarger]

It's tough to get enough monitors set without at least one cold start, Of coarse there are ways around this with Tuning Software.....Highly unlikely to happen at a dealership level.

That truck should've of been emissions testing before being offered for sale, I'm almost certain there are state laws stating as much.

From DMV.NY.GOV

A dealer also must:​

• have the vehicle inspected before selling it to a retail customer, even if the vehicle is new. The inspection must be done within 30 days of the date of sale and before you take delivery. The dealer may charge you the inspection fee.

At face value, A retail dealer can't deliver the vehicle without an inspection, But can offer it for sale?

 

[clinebarger]

A HEMI is much easier to work on than that Ford V8.

Probably not much difference price wise on doing a 5.0L Coyote valve job vs Cam & lifters on a MDS 5.7L Hemi. In fact I'd rather do cylinder heads on a F150 Coyote.

 

[Lubener]

With how many Ford owners talking about the 5.0 being a good motor I figure I’d give it a try. They failed to mention the valve problems.

I wouldn't let them off the hook until they refunded your deposit. Bad publicity in trying to sell (cover up) a potential money pit is not worth $500 to the dealership. Maybe there's something else on their lot that would interest you and they would accept your initial deposit.

 

[atikovi]

At face value, A retail dealer can't deliver the vehicle without an inspection, But can offer it for sale?

There are 50 states in this country, maybe half a dozen within 200 miles of the dealer. Would make little sense to inspect it before a sale if you don't know what state a buyer is going to come from. One state won't accept another states inspection.

 

[DuckRyder]

Clarification, is it a Ford dealer?

I sorta doubt they would be able to trick it long enough for it to set the monitors.

can you get them to throw in a longer warranty?

 

[dnewton3]

I'll start by stating the obvious: you should have never signed a purchase agreement until after any inspection was completed and results known. Spilled milk now, however ... I will confess, I'm a bit confused becasue if you've signed the purcahse paperwork, how can you "walk away" and only lose $500? Don't you now formally own the vehicle because you signed the purchase agreement and paid money on the vehicle?

I'm not sure what laws exist in NY regarding the sale of a vehicle unable to pass inspections; check into your State Atty General's Office and find out what the stipulations are, if any. If you want completely out of the deal, you may have to polietly beg, depending upon your legal standing regarding the above. If you want the vehicle fixed, you may have to politely attempt to negotiate some good will from the dealer.

Past that point it's time to lawyer up.

 

[avacado11]

I'll start by stating the obvious: you should have never signed a purchase agreement until after any inspection was completed and results known. Spilled milk now, however ... I will confess, I'm a bit confused becasue if you've signed the purcahse paperwork, how can you "walk away" and only lose $500? Don't you now formally own the vehicle because you signed the purchase agreement and paid money on the vehicle?

I'm not sure what laws exist in NY regarding the sale of a vehicle unable to pass inspections; check into your State Atty General's Office and find out what the stipulations are, if any. If you want completely out of the deal, you may have to polietly beg, depending upon your legal standing regarding the above. If you want the vehicle fixed, you may have to politely attempt to negotiate some good will from the dealer.

Past that point it's time to lawyer up.

I am regarding the inspection required for registration, not a PPI or anything of that sort. The way it works in NY, since the law states it must be done within 30 days of the sale, dealers do not inspect until the sale is signed for. It’s a logistics thing. It wouldn’t make sense to re-inspect every 30 days on units sitting unsold.

This is how 99% of dealers operate in the state anyways. In theory it works out 99% of the time too, except situations like this.

The purchase agreement terms does say if customer backs out they would lose the deposit as it is non-refundable. It does allow to walk away.

 

[avacado11]

Clarification, is it a Ford dealer?

I sorta doubt they would be able to trick it long enough for it to set the monitors.

can you get them to throw in a longer warranty?

it is a mom & pop lot. I originally negotiated with them said if they’d take 2k off the asking price I would take it as-is. But they we’re only able to knock $200 off and included a 3 month warranty with the sale.

I figure they wouldn’t be able to reset monitor without coming across the CEL, but in the event that it does, is what I’m worried about.

 

[avacado11]

It's tough to get enough monitors set without at least one cold start, Of coarse there are ways around this with Tuning Software.....Highly unlikely to happen at a dealership level.

That truck should've of been emissions testing before being offered for sale, I'm almost certain there are state laws stating as much.

From DMV.NY.GOV

A dealer also must:​

• have the vehicle inspected before selling it to a retail customer, even if the vehicle is new. The inspection must be done within 30 days of the date of sale and before you take delivery. The dealer may charge you the inspection fee.

At face value, A retail dealer can't deliver the vehicle without an inspection, But can offer it for sale?

The catch is it must be inspected before selling. A car that sits on their lot unsold can sit forever without an inspection lol. Usually dealers will run their diagnostics and know wether or not the vehicle can pass inspection before offering it retail. Not blaming these folks in any way, wether the CEL developed while it was sitting for the past 2 months or they were hoping the CEL would stay off until the sale was completed, but this is why small used car lots get a bad reputation.