Looking for first person story: My warranty denied because of oil used

[ZeeOSix]

Sorry but what a crap and irresponsible comment. Tens of thousands of Hondas, Toyotas, and Fords have not had any such issue. Blaming OEM failures on a few CST's is just foolish!

And- I've seen Hyundai and Kia since their early introduction in the US market as they were popular with US military personnel as they were cheap. They often used lots of oil whether it was 5W-30 or 20W-50. It didn't' matter. I think I put more 20W-50 in an ex's Scoupe than she put gas in!

It's not a "crap and irresponsible comment". What is your theory on why those engines start burning oil so soon? Those engines could use crap metallurgy, and a too thin viscosity accelerates the issue.

And I have never claimed there are outright engine failures by using the recommended oil viscosity - but there certainly could be more engine wear, like maybe what happens with the early oil burners - why else would an engine start burning oil way too early beside due to accelerated wear. Read what I said a few times again. I simply said that using a grade higher than the (CAFE driven) "recommended" adds engine protection headroom. That is a simple fact that you nor anyone else can prove otherwise.

 

[Accent Abuser]

And it's possible the 5W-20 doesn't do well in those engines and causes them to start burning oil. Wear is caused by inadequate lubrication and/or inferior metallurgy. The ring pack is a very harsh environment and quite demanding for oil, and ring wear is pretty much at the top of the list when it comes to engine component wear.

Yes that's true, most of the problems with Hyundai engines can be solved by using an oil with adequate viscosity, 5w20 is barely teetering on the edge for those engines when brand new with tight clearances. It all goes back to viscosity, wear cannot occur if metal parts aren't coming into contact with each other. "Adequate" wear protection might get an engine through the warranty period, but very minute amounts of wear really add up when you start piling on 150,000, 200,000, or 300,000+ miles.

 

[Fabulous50s]

K series Honda. 2.4L in my wife's 2010 CR-V. Apparently Honda extended a piston and ring warranty to 8 years or 125,000 miles for oil consumption. Had to burn a quart in 800 miles. Well mine was 7 years old, 90,000 miles and burning a quart in 600 miles. No smoke, ran great, but gulped oil!

Talked to the dealer when I was buying Honda ATF to change the trans fluid, and parts guy told me that was under warranty. I had no idea.

Well, after it was confirmed by the dealer it was burning a quart in 600 miles they deny me coverage due to my own oil changes. Like most on here I buy my oil in bulk when it's on sale, and I buy OEM filters by the case of 10.

No paper trail...... I changed the oil every 5,000 miles and had been running T6 5w-40. No Bueno.

Escalated the case to Honda of America as this is a known issue, rings stick from people going by the oil maintenance minder and oil consumption is the result. We bought I used with 65K miles, so I have no history prior to that.

Honda of America says I'm not using their approved oil and I cannot prove when OC were done.

The results:

This was at 140k after I'd been just adding oil and changing the filter every 5k. A piece of carbon held the exhaust valve open and it burned. I adjusted the solid lifters at 90k. #2 cylinder was the major offender as told by the plug carboning up, and ended up with the burned valve.

I pulled the head, did a valve job and replaced the 1 valve. Cleaned it all back up, even the timing chain was only 50% worn. So it all went back together and has another 15K miles on it now.

Non approved oil is a bunch of crap!

FWIW, I filled each cylinder up with seafoam while the head was off. It disappeared in #1,3, and 4. #2 still had most of it after a week of getting all the parts together. I cleaned it all up, and it only burns a quart in 4k now.

 

[PimTac]

It's not a "crap and irresponsible comment". What is your theory on why those engines start burning oil so soon? Those engines could use crap metallurgy, and a too thin viscosity accelerates the issue.

All those millions and the millions of crap engines running 20 grade oil are lining the highway.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Yes that's true, most of the problems with Hyundai engines can be solved by using an oil with adequate viscosity, 5w20 is barely teetering on the edge for those engines when brand new with tight clearances.

Maybe those engines have an inadequate ring pack design (mainly the oil control rings), and the rings stick easily (like seen in some Toyota engines) if the oil isn't changed every 2500-3000 miles. Could be a combination of many factors.

 

[ZeeOSix]

All those millions and the millions of crap engines running 20 grade oil are lining the highway.

Seems some people have a reading comprehension problem and only interpret posts how they want to. Where did I every say in this thread, or any thread on this chat board, where using 20 grade will cause an engine failure and those cars will be "lining the highways".

 

[Jackson_Slugger]

It's not a "crap and irresponsible comment". What is your theory on why those engines start burning oil so soon? Those engines could use crap metallurgy, and a too thin viscosity accelerates the issue.

Poor design? Legacy? The Hyundais in the 1990's burned more oil regardless of weights. Did you not pick that up in my original post?

And I have never claimed there are outright engine failures by using the recommended oil viscosity - but there certainly could be more engine wear, like maybe what happens with the early oil burners - why else would an engine start burning oil way too early beside due to accelerated wear. Read what I said a few times again. I simply said that using a grade higher than the (CAFE driven) "recommended" adds engine protection headroom. That is a simple fact that you nor anyone else can prove otherwise.

But there really isn't any real evidence of more engine wear. I don't have to "prove" anything, you're the one with the contrarian contention. The "CAFE is the devil" proof is on you, not me. You are selectively choosing ONE manufacturer having issues with consumption for your "MOFT agenda" when there are at least five using 5W-20 oil in appropriate applications not having significant issues using reasonable OCI's...

 

[Jackson_Slugger]

Poor design? Legacy?



But there really isn't any real evidence of more engine wear....

Seems some people have a reading comprehension problem and only interpret posts how they want to. Where did I every say in this thread, or any thread on this chat board, where using 20 grade will cause an engine failure and those cars will be "lining the highways".

And some people have a bizarre OCD regarding motor oils...

 

[Jackson_Slugger]

Maybe those engines have an inadequate ring pack design (mainly the oil control rings), and the rings stick easily (like seen in some Toyota engines) if the oil isn't changed every 2500-3000 miles. Could be a combination of many factors.

There are also Toyota engines that BURN MORE OIL THE THICKER YOU GO because of circulation issues. I've seen this first hand with the 1.8L, using 0W-20 significantly reduced consumption over a 10W-40 HM oil...

 

[sk_pete]

You hire one Lawyer-they have a boardroom full. You lose.

cant be guilty without evidence.

 

[Jackson_Slugger]

cant be guilty without evidence.

 

[IveBeenRued]

K series Honda. 2.4L in my wife's 2010 CR-V. Apparently Honda extended a piston and ring warranty to 8 years or 125,000 miles for oil consumption. Had to burn a quart in 800 miles. Well mine was 7 years old, 90,000 miles and burning a quart in 600 miles. No smoke, ran great, but gulped oil!

Talked to the dealer when I was buying Honda ATF to change the trans fluid, and parts guy told me that was under warranty. I had no idea.

Well, after it was confirmed by the dealer it was burning a quart in 600 miles they deny me coverage due to my own oil changes. Like most on here I buy my oil in bulk when it's on sale, and I buy OEM filters by the case of 10.

No paper trail...... I changed the oil every 5,000 miles and had been running T6 5w-40. No Bueno.

Escalated the case to Honda of America as this is a known issue, rings stick from people going by the oil maintenance minder and oil consumption is the result. We bought I used with 65K miles, so I have no history prior to that.

Honda of America says I'm not using their approved oil and I cannot prove when OC were done.

The results:View attachment 113274View attachment 113275View attachment 113276View attachment 113277

This was at 140k after I'd been just adding oil and changing the filter every 5k. A piece of carbon held the exhaust valve open and it burned. I adjusted the solid lifters at 90k. #2 cylinder was the major offender as told by the plug carboning up, and ended up with the burned valve.

I pulled the head, did a valve job and replaced the 1 valve. Cleaned it all back up, even the timing chain was only 50% worn. So it all went back together and has another 15K miles on it now.

Non approved oil is a bunch of crap!

FWIW, I filled each cylinder up with seafoam while the head was off. It disappeared in #1,3, and 4. #2 still had most of it after a week of getting all the parts together. I cleaned it all up, and it only burns a quart in 4k now.

For those engaged in the back and forth, if you would like to continue, could you please start a private message thread. This poster may have the first actual legitimate first-hand account of a warranty claim getting denied within this thread.

Questions for Fabulous50s.
1. Did the Rotella T6 5W-40 meet the API service category and the viscosity for your 2010 Honda CR-V?

2. How were you documenting your oil changes? Notebook, running log in Excel, maintenance minder, etc.

 

[Fabulous50s]

Modern low friction engines have ultra thin oil control rings.....to meet CAFE standards. These rings and their very thin piston ring groove is very tight. Manufacturers recommending longer and longer OCI is the problem. One could argue that oil grade may have a hand in that as well, but i dont know. Engines are not as tightly sealed in the combustion chaimber as they once were. So shorter OCI is really whats needed. 5-6k, add in GDI....or a turbo, and the problem is compounded.

I place the blame on CAFE standards which seems to make Manufacturers ride the ragged edge of what will work long term and what will fail.

 

[Fabulous50s]

For those engaged in the back and forth, if you would like to continue, could you please start a private message thread. This poster may have the first actual legitimate first-hand account of a warranty claim getting denied within this thread.

Questions for Fabulous50s.
1. Did the Rotella T6 5W-40 meet the API service category and the viscosity for your 2010 Honda CR-V?

2. How were you documenting your oil changes? Notebook, running log in Excel, maintenance minder, etc.

Thank you.

1. No, T6 didn't even come close to meeting Honda spec, I've run T6 is pretty much everything up until a few years ago.

2. I post a sticker in the windshield. When I worked as a mechanic we used hand written static window stickers, and the shop owner switched to a printed static sticker. So he gave me 100s of the ones you can write on. I've been using them for the last 15 years.

No paper trail.

You can see by the pictures, taken in my garage BTW, that the top end is clean. The timing chain which is known the stretch and cause a CEL due to cam phasing measured just under 50% stretch even with my more conservative numbers. So I reinstalled it. This proves that T6 was working well. It was consuming so much oil I never drained it, just added a quart every couple weeks as needed.

But seafoam and/or valve guide seals which were replaced when the head was off has slowed the oil consumption to a very reasonable 1 qt in 4k now. Never been a believer in any miracles in a can, but it did something.

 

[IveBeenRued]

Thank you.

1. No, T6 didn't even come close to meeting Honda spec, I've run T6 is pretty much everything up until a few years ago.

2. I post a sticker in the windshield. When I worked as a mechanic we used hand written static window stickers, and the shop owner switched to a printed static sticker. So he gave me 100s of the ones you can write on. I've been using them for the last 15 years.

No paper trail.

You can see by the pictures, taken in my garage BTW, that the top end is clean. The timing chain which is known the stretch and cause a CEL due to cam phasing measured just under 50% stretch even with my more conservative numbers. So I reinstalled it. This proves that T6 was working well. It was consuming so much oil I never drained it, just added a quart every couple weeks as needed.

But seafoam and/or valve guide seals which were replaced when the head was off has slowed the oil consumption to a very reasonable 1 qt in 4k now. Never been a believer in any miracles in a can, but it did something.

I appreciate the response.

Two follow-up questions:
1. Was the Honda dealer aware that you were using an unapproved oil?

2. If they were aware, was the reason for denial cited as use of unapproved oil or lack of oil change documentation?

 

[PWMDMD]

Well, after it was confirmed by the dealer it was burning a quart in 600 miles they deny me coverage due to my own oil changes. Like most on here I buy my oil in bulk when it's on sale, and I buy OEM filters by the case of 10.

No paper trail...... I changed the oil every 5,000 miles and had been running T6 5w-40. No Bueno.

For the sake of clarity and to fight the myth that owners risk warranty denial if they change their own oil with an approved oil and document it appropriately - they did not deny coverage simply because you did your own oil changes. They denied coverage because you failed to document your oil changes and you used oil that wasn't approved.

 

[PimTac]

Seems some people have a reading comprehension problem and only interpret posts how they want to. Where did I every say in this thread, or any thread on this chat board, where using 20 grade will cause an engine failure and those cars will be "lining the highways".

You should go into politics.

 

[Scuder]

A lot of speculation going on here.

What internet forum do you think this is?

 

[Jackson_Slugger]

Modern low friction engines have ultra thin oil control rings.....to meet CAFE standards. These rings and their very thin piston ring groove is very tight. Manufacturers recommending longer and longer OCI is the problem. One could argue that oil grade may have a hand in that as well, but i dont know. Engines are not as tightly sealed in the combustion chaimber as they once were. So shorter OCI is really whats needed. 5-6k, add in GDI....or a turbo, and the problem is compounded.

I place the blame on CAFE standards which seems to make Manufacturers ride the ragged edge of what will work long term and what will fail.

Evidence?

 

[ZeeOSix]

You should go into politics.

People need to improve reading comprehension instead of reading way between the lines and forming false narratives and misconceptions in their heads. Still waiting for someone to find any post of mine where I said 20 grade will blow-up an engine.