Looking for first person story: My warranty denied because of oil used

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As a tech I have turned down warranty due to incorrect oil grade as well as not meeting spec. Toyota was having sludge issues so we would decline if no record , long drains, incorrect oil specifications or incorrect oil grade. Royal Purple would get declined quickly.
 
We need two identical engines run on a dyno each with different oils and then do a wear analysis. One with 0w-16 and one with 5w-40. See who has the best looking bearings, cylinder walls, and what the fuel consumption is.
Engine wear studies have done even more sophisticated tests that that, by using irradiated parts inside the engine to measure wear rates.
 
Nope ... the 150C and 1M/sec shear rate for HTHS was chosen because those can be the actual oil temperature and shear rate inside engine journal bearings. Then if say someone was running an engine really hard on a track, the sump will heat up pretty good, and then the oil temperature inside the journal bearings will be even higher than 150C ... that's why oil coolers were invented. Go do some extended track days with xW-16 or xW-20 and see how long your journal bearing will last, lol.

When oil gets squeezed in a journal bearing at high RPM it heats up pretty good, and the viscosity goes down from the heat and the shearing. Go research it.
No one said track days on 0w20. Normal everyday driving is what is being talked about. I have run 0w20 in 100 degree heat and triple digits but my Caravan never reached that oil temperature as I have a cooler. Most engines will blow up if oil gets that temp. I have ran 10w40 and blew radiator hose which oil was done as it couldn't cool block. Engine slowed up as coolant temperature was pegged quickly.
 
Okay, so a SAE30 from 1931 is superior to a 0W-20 using PAO/GTL/severely hydrocracked? Sure. The mighty might god of MOFT!
The 30 would give more MOFT between parts than the 20, regardless if formulation ... it's one of the most basic characteristics of lubricants and Tribology.

When MOFT goes to zero and metal-to-metal contact starts to occur, that's when the secondary wear protection mechanism comes into play ... the AF/AW additives. You really need to bone up on basic Tribology. ;)

Everyone should read this ... it's been posted many times.
https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/30835/lubricant-film-strength
 
No one said track days on 0w20. Normal everyday driving is what is being talked about. I have run 0w20 in 100 degree heat and triple digits but my Caravan never reached that oil temperature as I have a cooler.
It's an example with my explanation of HTHS viscosity and why it's tested at 150C and 1M/sec shear rate. Go do some research on what happens to oil inside the rod and crankshaft journal bearings when the engine is spinning at high RPM.

Most engines will blow up if oil gets that temp.
And they do all the time on tracks when someone runs too thin oil and/or no oil cooler(s). MOFT goes to zero in the journal bearings, the bearing spins and BOOM ... a rod through the block.
 
As a tech I have turned down warranty due to incorrect oil grade as well as not meeting spec. Toyota was having sludge issues so we would decline if no record , long drains, incorrect oil specifications or incorrect oil grade. Royal Purple would get declined quickly.
As a tech, how did you go about determining incorrect oil grade as well as not meeting spec?

Toyota had some sludge problems in the past due to engine design problems.
 
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As a tech, how did you go about determining incorrect oil grade as well as not meeting spec?

Toyota had some sludge problems in the past due to engine design problems.
I believe he said it in his post, “no record”. Then he mentioned incorrect oil specs, long drain intervals...all of which - if you had receipts - would identify that.

Years ago when I was a tech the warranty company would come into the dealership, pull a sample from the engine. We’d wait. And it would be declined. In my opinion, if it got to this point the customer probably did not have any records, and when they pulled a sample I have no idea how/why they would decline a claim. Maybe viscosity grade? Insoluables? TBN?

Bottom line is this, if you’re a good customer of the dealership...you buy cars there, your family buys cars there, you get your cars serviced there. You will get everything covered under warranty. It wouldn’t matter if you had never changed that oil in 50,000 miles. The warranty claim person and General Manager of the dealership would have a conversation, it’d be covered. They’d find a way. If they’re not a customer of the dealer? Good luck. Not saying it’s right.
 
Imo there's no way an oil grade can or can't be proved via analyses, because many oils shear out of grade during use. Plus, dealerships screw up all the time by putting the wrong specified oil in customers' cars. Too many variables.
 
Okay, so a SAE30 from 1931 is superior to a 0W-20 using PAO/GTL/severely hydrocracked? Sure. The mighty might god of MOFT!

And of course there are other factors such as a 5W-20 oil may actually start with a thicker base oil than an equivalent 5W-30 because they do not have to account for the addition of polymers to properly formulate a 5W-30, in a xW-20 oil.

Or thinner oils generate less heat...
You really, truly need to learn some things before continuing to post, you're making nonsensical arguments that show your misunderstandings. It isn't helping your point at all.

You're mostly pulling nonsense out of the air here that isn't relevant to the subject.
 
I don't understand why everyone is so hung up on using the right oil for warranty purposes. If your goal is super long drivetrain health and you feel that the CAFE driven lubrication recommendation is not going to cut it for whatever reason put in whatever you want in the vehicle and don't think about it. You can prepare in advance oil receipts for the proper oil, for the minimum amount of oil changes one way or another and then if you had a warranty claim you would be covered.

Realistically any engine claim in (5 years 60K miles) you have is not going to be caused by an engine oil unless you try using 20W50 in your Prius in Alaska, or run 0w20 in your Coyote Mustang on a Phoenix racetrack for several race events.

Obviously if you have a claim or even roadside failure, I would put in the right oil grade, just to be safe before getting the vehicle to them. They don't know what was in your car prior to bringing it in and will not do forensic level analysis to try to fight you if everything in the engine looks clean as a whistle. Its more likely going to be a repair for a known issue, at which point they won't question anything at all, once you provide the minimum amount of receipts.
 
I don't understand why everyone is so hung up on using the right oil for warranty purposes. If your goal is super long drivetrain health and you feel that the CAFE driven lubrication recommendation is not going to cut it for whatever reason put in whatever you want in the vehicle and don't think about it. You can prepare in advance oil receipts for the proper oil, for the minimum amount of oil changes one way or another and then if you had a warranty claim you would be covered.

Realistically any engine claim in (5 years 60K miles) you have is not going to be caused by an engine oil unless you try using 20W50 in your Prius in Alaska, or run 0w20 in your Coyote Mustang on a Phoenix racetrack for several race events.

Obviously if you have a claim or even roadside failure, I would put in the right oil grade, just to be safe before getting the vehicle to them. They don't know what was in your car prior to bringing it in and will not do forensic level analysis to try to fight you if everything in the engine looks clean as a whistle. Its more likely going to be a repair for a known issue, at which point they won't question anything at all, once you provide the minimum amount of receipts.
This.
 
Imo there's no way an oil grade can or can't be proved via analyses, because many oils shear out of grade during use. Plus, dealerships screw up all the time by putting the wrong specified oil in customers' cars. Too many variables.

True that’s why they are going to ask for receipts.

Though some approvals contain markers.
 
I believe he said it in his post, “no record”. Then he mentioned incorrect oil specs, long drain intervals...all of which - if you had receipts - would identify that....
What I am asking is, how he, as a Tech, @tiger862, personally determined incorrect oil grade as well as not meeting spec; that is what he said and I am curious, so let's let him respond.
 
What I am asking is, how he, as a Tech, @tiger862, personally determined incorrect oil grade as well as not meeting spec; that is what he said and I am curious, so let's let him respond.
I interpreted it as he has some receipts and those receipts that he had on-hand showed oil that wasn't of the correct grade/specification/whatever.
 
Not related to the oil used but: I worked at a Ford dealership. A guy comes in with an older car. He had an aftermarket warranty that he had purchased with the vehicle for around $2000. He had had the warranty for a couple of years. I don’t remember the particular issue with his vehicle. We called the warranty company and the first thing they said was “We want a copy of every oil change since the date the date of the warranty purchase”. Of course he didn’t have records.
Of course, those are not warranties. Extended service contracts, insurance, etc. Calling these an extended warranty is a misnomer.
 
I interpreted it as he has some receipts and those receipts that he had on-hand showed oil that wasn't of the correct grade/specification/whatever.
Wouldn't you keep only the records that showed the correct grade of oil for the temperature expected and throw away the ones that did not?
 
I don't understand why everyone is so hung up on using the right oil for warranty purposes. If your goal is super long drivetrain health and you feel that the CAFE driven lubrication recommendation is not going to cut it for whatever reason put in whatever you want in the vehicle and don't think about it. You can prepare in advance oil receipts for the proper oil, for the minimum amount of oil changes one way or another and then if you had a warranty claim you would be covered.

Realistically any engine claim in (5 years 60K miles) you have is not going to be caused by an engine oil unless you try using 20W50 in your Prius in Alaska, or run 0w20 in your Coyote Mustang on a Phoenix racetrack for several race events.

Obviously if you have a claim or even roadside failure, I would put in the right oil grade, just to be safe before getting the vehicle to them. They don't know what was in your car prior to bringing it in and will not do forensic level analysis to try to fight you if everything in the engine looks clean as a whistle. Its more likely going to be a repair for a known issue, at which point they won't question anything at all, once you provide the minimum amount of receipts.

Aside from the moral questions of this... When your vehicle breaks down and your roadside assistance (after all, it's under warranty) comes to pick it up, you're really going to tell them to take it to your house, before the dealership, so you can change the oil?

Also, you don't think the dealer would know the oil was brand new?
 
As a tech I have turned down warranty due to incorrect oil grade as well as not meeting spec. Toyota was having sludge issues so we would decline if no record , long drains, incorrect oil specifications or incorrect oil grade. Royal Purple would get declined quickly.
If that was the same issue as back in about 1999 involving the 1MZ-FE then your denials were contrary to the letter Toyota sent to owners. In that letter they only asked for proof of one previous oil change, nothing about OCI, specifications (there aren’t any) nor grade. And definitely nothing about Royal Purple lol. Are you attempting to say that a claim involving RP with the API license listed in the owner’s manual would be denied due solely to brand? For what reason?

I’ve never heard any Toyota warranty action for oil gelling on any engine model other than the 1MZ-FE, was there another? Otherwise this whole post seems like it’s full of mistakes and unsupportable actions by your dealership.
 
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