People retired and die all the time. If the retired wanted a FT job they could get one.
Labor force participation rate as high as ever for prime age workers
- Thread starter SC Maintenance
- Start date
People retired and die all the time. If the retired wanted a FT job they could get one.
Not like in 2020, a lot of people on the verge of retirement took what was happening as a sign it was time to retire.
Right and if they wanted to return to work today in some capacity they could. I posted the U6 figures in this thread. There aren't a lot of people looking for FT work.
They chose to retire, why would they go look for work?
Inflation.
- Joined
- Jul 10, 2022
- Messages
- 3,670
I happen to work at a co with poor benefits. Management is getting worse, as more VPs are hired, and front liners are not. Yet as mentioned we have people with 50/40/30/20+ years tenure. I was paying over $600/mo for medical and then doing a FSA to boot to cover part of the deductible. All gone when my wife joined the school district.
My theory is above average pay, above average bonuses, and keeping people maybe even if their skill set doesn't any longer match the pay? We have a guy and I'm serious, I think he needs a walker to get to the parking garage. We don't eliminate such folks at my co.
I was a phone guy, and the phone system went to the cloud. I was put into a new role and kept my pay. Imagine I only have 8 years experience at what I do, today (arguably 3 is minimum to be effective but likely at 10 one is darn good at many non management roles). What is it that I do...to oversimplify, I like to say I could set up the infrastructure at a Costco warehouse, only at maybe 5X the scale....
I do think that if I were to change jobs, I could get more pay. But, I would get less stabiity, and I'm not a spring chicken!
My company pays peanuts. New hires get paid normal market wage but after that, raises barely match inflation so folks that have started their career with us are not getting paid close to market wage. I work IT for an AEC company and Survey Crew Chiefs are in very short supply. The big companies are doing what they can to keep their Surveyors but our management is happily letting ours leave instead of giving any sort of counter offer - and then ***** about how people don't want to work. Paying $55k/year for a $85k/year position does not fly.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2022
- Messages
- 5,567
The chart your likely looking for is the entire labor force participation rate. Which is very different. The 25 to 54 IMHO is more reflective overall at removing strange societal shifts like early retirement or staying in school longer. Most people 25 to 54 hould want a job unless there a stay at home mom or disabled. Economists agree with that - so this is what they watch. 83.5% pretty much reflects full employment.
Here is the entire labor force - it has the step your looking for. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CIVPART
And wages are rising. Notice the step right after the pandemic. There just not rising fast enough, and employers are always hesitant to pay more, because they would then need to pay there current
Last edited:
OP's chart is 25-54 year olds.
I suspect that a lot of those older workers went back to work. At least those who could, did.
I also suspect that a lot of people are postponing retirement.
The reason for the above two being mostly inflation.
This is true for any business that is "having trouble making it".
The issue with this round of "inflation" is the massive amount it has been and there isn't any end in sight. Notice how the inflation numbers aren't a "big news story" every quarter anymore? There's an agenda-driven reason.
I'm not sure anyone living in the US today has ever seen a 50-60% increase in grocery prices in an 24 month period like we have.
Couple that with increased pricing on everything, I don't understand why there are so many help wanted signs. My household income is something I would have never envisioned in my life growing up and we are having to watch our spending; granted we are cash-flowing a college education and have been for 6 years and we live a pretty good life. A few things have popped up and caught us by surprise with unexpected expenditures, but we will get through it and get back to having a good cushion but most people couldn't have dealt with the stuff we have the last year.
They're probably comfortable there though. We have several folks who have been with us for 20+ years; nearly when the company was founded staying long enough for two reasons; almost ready to retire or unsure of getting a new job at their age. In a 2 year span, 5 VPs that have been with the company for 10+ years have left because of the current president/CEO. We can't keep any new hires/entry level workers for long because the company doesn't want to pay them properly so instead we have overpaid and underqualified project managers doing the work and racking up the labor costs.
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2022
- Messages
- 5,567
This is the one I just posted - look directly above your post. This is everyone from 15 to 65. Its a different co-hort, and doesn't account for those staying in school longer and those retiring early.
A different data set.
So If everyone from 25 to 54 that wants a job that has a job, then to get more labor you need to lure old people out of retirement (good luck) or kids out of their parents basement or parent funded college (even more luck).
25 to 54 has always been the bulk of our workforce, and its currently at full capacity.
The big issue is there are not enough people - smaller generations.
Last edited:
Yes the data you are looking at is an average set. Meaning that you have markets where paychecks are rising and you have markets where they are not. That is the point. The US had a huge economic boom since the recession, discount COVID years. Yet, for example, Alabama lost a congressional seat bcs. population decline, while states around are gaining. So, some mismanaged states will hurt the average.
I was in Breckenridge this weekend. A sandwich shop that was paying start last year at $18 is now starting people at $24.50.
The truth is that wages are still behind compared to other data. This is key that is starting to catch up with people who really did not care about it as their income is going up. The problem is, that everyone is dependent on each other for something. And most people really do not care about it and they are confused when it starts to affect them bcs. lack of basic services etc.
I have a friend that their daughter right out of nursing school will start @ $39 an hour.
Not bad for a 22 year old still living with her parents and zero student loans / car payment.
Lots of adults (late 20’s) still living at home with parents cause they can’t afford to buy a home.
Not bad for a 22 year old still living with her parents and zero student loans / car payment.
Lots of adults (late 20’s) still living at home with parents cause they can’t afford to buy a home.
With elections around the corner the guy in charge will do everything to ignore the inflation.
More bad news….
Saudi Arabia to extend voluntary cut of 1 million barrels per day until the end of the year
Riyadh first applied the 1 million barrel per day reduction in July.
www.cnbc.com
1% rich folks don’t need to worry about inflation.
My daughter will graduate next May with a Bachelor's in Resp Therapy and hopefully certified in GA and AL. With that, she should be starting somewhere around the $30-38/hour mark. She won't have a car payment or student loans either.
$80k/year won't be enough to buy a home near where she wants to work, either. She doesn't need to buy a home yet, either. She will be able to afford a nice apartment, pay her own bills (Hail yeuuuuah!! ), save money, etc.
Hopefully she is at the $50/hour rate in a few years and then able to look at permanent housing/etc.
- Joined
- Jul 10, 2022
- Messages
- 3,670
Our PMs aren't bad, they do good honest work. The issue we have is too many chiefs and not enough indians. Our contracts are fixed cost so instead of having a $25/hour employee on a jobsite, we have $40+/hour employee on a job site which then cuts down on the amount of money we make because of the fixed-cost contract. We lost an entire department because of this.
The second issue we have is paying a new and less-qualified PM substantially more than one who has been with the company for years and knows how our clients are. Then when that long term employee asks *** is happening and for a raise, they get fired without the department head knowing, and taking that client with them.
So overall, there has to be a balance of pay, benefits, and flexibility. Take one and management needs to give another otherwise people will find new jobs.
