Keep my Hyundai or buy another Toyota?
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I guess you know more then Dave Ramsey, the financial (get out of debt) guru on the radio, and TV, and author of lots of books. And a self-made multi-millionaire.
Anybody taking a guess on how he became so wealthy? Did it have anything do with selling his books and seminars?
I guess you know more then Dave Ramsey, the financial (get out of debt) guru on the radio, and TV, and author of lots of books. And a self-made multi-millionaire.
Anybody taking a guess on how he became so wealthy? Did it have anything do with selling his books and seminars?
Can you get a video of the whining?
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Can you get a video of the whining?
Also get a video of the car's whining while you're at it.
Can you get a video of the whining?
Also get a video of the car's whining while you're at it.
Originally Posted By: lovcom
Originally Posted By: Cujet
I'd go for a new Toyota in a second.
Not only because the quality is there, but because they generally drive far better (are more of a pleasure to drive) than lesser vehicles. Your Hyundai is nowhere near new, and the risk of expenses is there. Especially considering that you are still paying for it.
Repeating myself again here: Cars cost a certain amount "per mile". Gas-capital costs-insurance-maintenance-etc. A new vehicle, purchased at a fair price, maintained well, and kept for it's lifespan, will be between 2 and 5 cents more per mile than a used, or older vehicle. (within classes of vehicles, can't compare a prius to an F150, clearly the truck costs more per mile)
People concentrate on the capital costs of a vehicle, but many don't understand that the other costs can easily be far higher, over the life of the vehicle. That's where Toyota and Honda can do very well over the long term. They may cost more up front, but maintenance is often far less, and more miles are the result. Cost per mile is generally better on a Toyota.
Yes, I know, you can purchase a used Taurus from Grandma for $500, with 20,000 miles on it, and drive it another 200,000 miles, all while getting 30MPG. I've been looking for such a deal for 40 years!
I guess you know more then Dave Ramsey, the financial (get out of debt) guru on the radio, and TV, and author of lots of books. And a self-made multi-millionaire.
Dave would disagree with nearly everything that you wrote. And in fact, he would think that your advise leads to a financial mess.
Perhaps you should call Dave up. Offer to go on his show and straighten him out. It could be that you know something that he doesn't.
Seriously.
PS Thank you for being you. Without folks like yourself, the automobile industry would be out of business long ago, as would many banks, and financial companies. Oh, and I thank you too, for keeping the American economy proped up.
Hahaha, you are (all) welcome! And, Dave is a very smart guy! I'm not here to tell you he's wrong. Only that I prefer to own and drive newer vehicles when ever I can. And that the cost of new, done properly, may not be as steep as many think, when viewed on a "cost per mile basis".
Once again, you are welcome!
Famous quote: "Another ingredient in a happy marriage, Budget the luxuries first!"
Originally Posted By: Cujet
I'd go for a new Toyota in a second.
Not only because the quality is there, but because they generally drive far better (are more of a pleasure to drive) than lesser vehicles. Your Hyundai is nowhere near new, and the risk of expenses is there. Especially considering that you are still paying for it.
Repeating myself again here: Cars cost a certain amount "per mile". Gas-capital costs-insurance-maintenance-etc. A new vehicle, purchased at a fair price, maintained well, and kept for it's lifespan, will be between 2 and 5 cents more per mile than a used, or older vehicle. (within classes of vehicles, can't compare a prius to an F150, clearly the truck costs more per mile)
People concentrate on the capital costs of a vehicle, but many don't understand that the other costs can easily be far higher, over the life of the vehicle. That's where Toyota and Honda can do very well over the long term. They may cost more up front, but maintenance is often far less, and more miles are the result. Cost per mile is generally better on a Toyota.
Yes, I know, you can purchase a used Taurus from Grandma for $500, with 20,000 miles on it, and drive it another 200,000 miles, all while getting 30MPG. I've been looking for such a deal for 40 years!
I guess you know more then Dave Ramsey, the financial (get out of debt) guru on the radio, and TV, and author of lots of books. And a self-made multi-millionaire.
Dave would disagree with nearly everything that you wrote. And in fact, he would think that your advise leads to a financial mess.
Perhaps you should call Dave up. Offer to go on his show and straighten him out. It could be that you know something that he doesn't.
Seriously.
PS Thank you for being you. Without folks like yourself, the automobile industry would be out of business long ago, as would many banks, and financial companies. Oh, and I thank you too, for keeping the American economy proped up.
Hahaha, you are (all) welcome! And, Dave is a very smart guy! I'm not here to tell you he's wrong. Only that I prefer to own and drive newer vehicles when ever I can. And that the cost of new, done properly, may not be as steep as many think, when viewed on a "cost per mile basis".
Once again, you are welcome!
Famous quote: "Another ingredient in a happy marriage, Budget the luxuries first!"
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Originally Posted By: Vikas
Quote:
I guess you know more then Dave Ramsey, the financial (get out of debt) guru on the radio, and TV, and author of lots of books. And a self-made multi-millionaire.
Anybody taking a guess on how he became so wealthy? Did it have anything do with selling his books and seminars?
I work as a mechanic, my income is not huge. Even at 100% of income savings and investment, I'd not become wealthy, rich, or even moderately prosperous.
However, I am not stupid.
I'd need significant income to achieve wealth.
Another famous quote: "$100 placed at 7 percent interest compounded quarterly for 200 years will increase to more than $100,000,000 — by which time it will be worth nothing"
Quote:
I guess you know more then Dave Ramsey, the financial (get out of debt) guru on the radio, and TV, and author of lots of books. And a self-made multi-millionaire.
Anybody taking a guess on how he became so wealthy? Did it have anything do with selling his books and seminars?
I work as a mechanic, my income is not huge. Even at 100% of income savings and investment, I'd not become wealthy, rich, or even moderately prosperous.
However, I am not stupid.
I'd need significant income to achieve wealth.
Another famous quote: "$100 placed at 7 percent interest compounded quarterly for 200 years will increase to more than $100,000,000 — by which time it will be worth nothing"
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
No, people, like you, concentrate on the badge and dream up their own "facts" to suit their view.
Miller88 already gave one example where Honda is more expensive to maintain.
Fact is that maintenance is pretty much a wash across the board. Most cars use long life spark plugs and fluids. A lot of new 4 bangers come with timing chains instead of belts. Aside from Honda, no other mainstream manufacturer requires periodic valve adjustments. OCIs also seem to be similar, ranging from around 4k to 10k miles between severe and normal service.
I'd direct you over to "truedelta.com" to look at real world reliability results. I'm not interested in a badge or name. I am interested in real world reliability and cost of ownership.
I prefer to use available date to make an informed choice. Coupled with some weight given to "WANT" and some weight given to "NEED".
All I really need to commute is a moped, 80cc scooter or 125cc motorcycle. But, I want to drive a car. And I want to drive a car I like. I most certainly don't NEED to drive a car.
So, at which point do we honestly consider the first world problems of "luxury". Because I can easily make the point that you can move to an area where you can take the bus.
No, people, like you, concentrate on the badge and dream up their own "facts" to suit their view.
Miller88 already gave one example where Honda is more expensive to maintain.
Fact is that maintenance is pretty much a wash across the board. Most cars use long life spark plugs and fluids. A lot of new 4 bangers come with timing chains instead of belts. Aside from Honda, no other mainstream manufacturer requires periodic valve adjustments. OCIs also seem to be similar, ranging from around 4k to 10k miles between severe and normal service.
I'd direct you over to "truedelta.com" to look at real world reliability results. I'm not interested in a badge or name. I am interested in real world reliability and cost of ownership.
I prefer to use available date to make an informed choice. Coupled with some weight given to "WANT" and some weight given to "NEED".
All I really need to commute is a moped, 80cc scooter or 125cc motorcycle. But, I want to drive a car. And I want to drive a car I like. I most certainly don't NEED to drive a car.
So, at which point do we honestly consider the first world problems of "luxury". Because I can easily make the point that you can move to an area where you can take the bus.
Originally Posted By: 2Fast4U
Simply pull your ps belt or V belt and start the engine. Noise gone? If you aren't mechanically inclined hopefully you can at least do this and determine what the issue is.
This post and the one from rjundi are really the only constructive posts in this 44 post thread. Thank you to both of you.
I'm really disappointed that this is more of the norm than the exception on this website. I've read some of the threads from 6-7 years ago, and it was a whole different type of conversation back then. Guys going back and forth with good, helpful ideas and constructive criticism and almost no berating comments. It seems that too many posts become [censored] matches, with mods getting into it with other members.
Simply pull your ps belt or V belt and start the engine. Noise gone? If you aren't mechanically inclined hopefully you can at least do this and determine what the issue is.
This post and the one from rjundi are really the only constructive posts in this 44 post thread. Thank you to both of you.
I'm really disappointed that this is more of the norm than the exception on this website. I've read some of the threads from 6-7 years ago, and it was a whole different type of conversation back then. Guys going back and forth with good, helpful ideas and constructive criticism and almost no berating comments. It seems that too many posts become [censored] matches, with mods getting into it with other members.
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Anyway, you're right and Dave Ramsey, whomever he might be, is wrong.
We've bought both new and used cars over the years, and cost per mile over the life of the vehicle does not necessarily favor buying used over buying new.
Based upon our experience, the difference is pretty small, especially for the cash buyer or anyone with good enough credit to qualify for free or nearly free financing.
The only real advantage of a used car is the lower initial outlay. The lifetime cost per mile will not necessarily be lower.
I don't generally pay too much attention to advice offered by pop media "gurus"
We've bought both new and used cars over the years, and cost per mile over the life of the vehicle does not necessarily favor buying used over buying new.
Based upon our experience, the difference is pretty small, especially for the cash buyer or anyone with good enough credit to qualify for free or nearly free financing.
The only real advantage of a used car is the lower initial outlay. The lifetime cost per mile will not necessarily be lower.
I don't generally pay too much attention to advice offered by pop media "gurus"
Two big differences to consider in buying new vs. used that I have not seen anyone mention in this thread:
1. Depreciation
2. Opportunity cost
A car takes its biggest depreciation hit in Year 1, so if someone is in the habit of buying new then trading in after a couple years, you will always be taking the biggest bite of the depreciation pie.
Also the "it's a wash between used and new per-mile" theory ignores opportunity cost. If I buy new for $20,000 or buy used for $5,000 is obviously a $15,000 difference. That either means far less debt or if paying cash, more money remaining in my pocket that I can now put in my 401k, buy beer with, etc. Something to consider.
1. Depreciation
2. Opportunity cost
A car takes its biggest depreciation hit in Year 1, so if someone is in the habit of buying new then trading in after a couple years, you will always be taking the biggest bite of the depreciation pie.
Also the "it's a wash between used and new per-mile" theory ignores opportunity cost. If I buy new for $20,000 or buy used for $5,000 is obviously a $15,000 difference. That either means far less debt or if paying cash, more money remaining in my pocket that I can now put in my 401k, buy beer with, etc. Something to consider.
Originally Posted By: threeputtpar
Originally Posted By: 2Fast4U
Simply pull your ps belt or V belt and start the engine. Noise gone? If you aren't mechanically inclined hopefully you can at least do this and determine what the issue is.
This post and the one from rjundi are really the only constructive posts in this 44 post thread. Thank you to both of you.
I'm really disappointed that this is more of the norm than the exception on this website. I've read some of the threads from 6-7 years ago, and it was a whole different type of conversation back then. Guys going back and forth with good, helpful ideas and constructive criticism and almost no berating comments. It seems that too many posts become [censored] matches, with mods getting into it with other members.
thank YOU!!!!
Originally Posted By: 2Fast4U
Simply pull your ps belt or V belt and start the engine. Noise gone? If you aren't mechanically inclined hopefully you can at least do this and determine what the issue is.
This post and the one from rjundi are really the only constructive posts in this 44 post thread. Thank you to both of you.
I'm really disappointed that this is more of the norm than the exception on this website. I've read some of the threads from 6-7 years ago, and it was a whole different type of conversation back then. Guys going back and forth with good, helpful ideas and constructive criticism and almost no berating comments. It seems that too many posts become [censored] matches, with mods getting into it with other members.
thank YOU!!!!
wait, we don;t even know what the problem is and cost to repair. cannot make an informed decisio without knowing the facts. A $500 repair is peanuts compared to the cost of a new car (depreciation is a killer) as are taxes, insurance etc.
I buy new vehicles BUT keep them usually till they're really rusted. This is usually over 10++ years for my "used in winter" vehicles in NJ. For my garaged in winter vehicles I'm over 17 years for my car now. Dollar wise for the last 40 years of vehicle ownership it's been much less expensive to fix a vehicle as needed than to replace it. This is assuming there isn't some major fault in the vehicle. I have a really great honest indie mechanic and even use the Ford dealer sometimes. I try to keep emergency money in a seperate account that I through some money into when I can to pay for periodic repairs as needed. It's nice not to have monthly car payments. Good luck on what you decide.
Whimsey
Whimsey
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Given the wide availability of either free or nearly free financing in the current rate environment, opportunity cost is of little significance.
Cost per mile of use, if properly accounted for, as I do, takes depreciation into account as well, so it has already been covered.
Even if you unloaded the car at a major loss to depreciation, you'd reflect this in higher cost per mile of use.
A car is a transportation tool capable of many years and miles of use.
The cost of owning and using a car should be accounted for as the cost per mile or year of use, since these are the units of economic value you derive from it.
Cost per mile of use, if properly accounted for, as I do, takes depreciation into account as well, so it has already been covered.
Even if you unloaded the car at a major loss to depreciation, you'd reflect this in higher cost per mile of use.
A car is a transportation tool capable of many years and miles of use.
The cost of owning and using a car should be accounted for as the cost per mile or year of use, since these are the units of economic value you derive from it.
Re: savings of used vs new car purchases
The last car I owned for 10 years and 140k miles was bought used @ 4 years old and 55k miles...after all repairs/maintenance, it ended costing me the price of the car new + tax (before any PM/repairs/tires, etc).
While I saved some, I can't say I saved much more (on tires/brakes/OCs and the like) than a couple of thousand dollars, because costs rose a lot after 150k miles, where the new-car's PM costs below 150k would have been minimal....but $2,000 is $2,000.
I hope to do better with the 05 Toyota Camry. It cost $2000 and $3000 LESS than 2 Altimas were when I bought them (this is to be expected considering it's 2x older with 2x the miles). Though it is 2x older and at 100k miles has 2x the miles under its belts than the Altimas I last bought, it seems a more sophisticated and better built car than the Altimas and seems to be in better shape than the Altimas were when I bought them.
The last car I owned for 10 years and 140k miles was bought used @ 4 years old and 55k miles...after all repairs/maintenance, it ended costing me the price of the car new + tax (before any PM/repairs/tires, etc).
While I saved some, I can't say I saved much more (on tires/brakes/OCs and the like) than a couple of thousand dollars, because costs rose a lot after 150k miles, where the new-car's PM costs below 150k would have been minimal....but $2,000 is $2,000.
I hope to do better with the 05 Toyota Camry. It cost $2000 and $3000 LESS than 2 Altimas were when I bought them (this is to be expected considering it's 2x older with 2x the miles). Though it is 2x older and at 100k miles has 2x the miles under its belts than the Altimas I last bought, it seems a more sophisticated and better built car than the Altimas and seems to be in better shape than the Altimas were when I bought them.
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Originally Posted By: Vikas
Quote:
I guess you know more then Dave Ramsey, the financial (get out of debt) guru on the radio, and TV, and author of lots of books. And a self-made multi-millionaire.
Anybody taking a guess on how he became so wealthy? Did it have anything do with selling his books and seminars?
No guessing required.
He made his first million before he sold books, got a TV show.
Quote:
I guess you know more then Dave Ramsey, the financial (get out of debt) guru on the radio, and TV, and author of lots of books. And a self-made multi-millionaire.
Anybody taking a guess on how he became so wealthy? Did it have anything do with selling his books and seminars?
No guessing required.
He made his first million before he sold books, got a TV show.
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: lovcom
Originally Posted By: Cujet
I'd go for a new Toyota in a second.
Not only because the quality is there, but because they generally drive far better (are more of a pleasure to drive) than lesser vehicles. Your Hyundai is nowhere near new, and the risk of expenses is there. Especially considering that you are still paying for it.
Repeating myself again here: Cars cost a certain amount "per mile". Gas-capital costs-insurance-maintenance-etc. A new vehicle, purchased at a fair price, maintained well, and kept for it's lifespan, will be between 2 and 5 cents more per mile than a used, or older vehicle. (within classes of vehicles, can't compare a prius to an F150, clearly the truck costs more per mile)
People concentrate on the capital costs of a vehicle, but many don't understand that the other costs can easily be far higher, over the life of the vehicle. That's where Toyota and Honda can do very well over the long term. They may cost more up front, but maintenance is often far less, and more miles are the result. Cost per mile is generally better on a Toyota.
Yes, I know, you can purchase a used Taurus from Grandma for $500, with 20,000 miles on it, and drive it another 200,000 miles, all while getting 30MPG. I've been looking for such a deal for 40 years!
I guess you know more then Dave Ramsey, the financial (get out of debt) guru on the radio, and TV, and author of lots of books. And a self-made multi-millionaire.
Dave would disagree with nearly everything that you wrote. And in fact, he would think that your advise leads to a financial mess.
Perhaps you should call Dave up. Offer to go on his show and straighten him out. It could be that you know something that he doesn't.
Seriously.
PS Thank you for being you. Without folks like yourself, the automobile industry would be out of business long ago, as would many banks, and financial companies. Oh, and I thank you too, for keeping the American economy proped up.
Hahaha, you are (all) welcome! And, Dave is a very smart guy! I'm not here to tell you he's wrong. Only that I prefer to own and drive newer vehicles when ever I can. And that the cost of new, done properly, may not be as steep as many think, when viewed on a "cost per mile basis".
Once again, you are welcome!
Famous quote: "Another ingredient in a happy marriage, Budget the luxuries first!"
If you would only follow your "cost per milage" basis, you too would see that replacing a perfectly good used high milage car with a brand new one would be a monumental mistake. I turn your "cost per milage" argument against you and use it to refute your point, so there ;-)
Originally Posted By: lovcom
Originally Posted By: Cujet
I'd go for a new Toyota in a second.
Not only because the quality is there, but because they generally drive far better (are more of a pleasure to drive) than lesser vehicles. Your Hyundai is nowhere near new, and the risk of expenses is there. Especially considering that you are still paying for it.
Repeating myself again here: Cars cost a certain amount "per mile". Gas-capital costs-insurance-maintenance-etc. A new vehicle, purchased at a fair price, maintained well, and kept for it's lifespan, will be between 2 and 5 cents more per mile than a used, or older vehicle. (within classes of vehicles, can't compare a prius to an F150, clearly the truck costs more per mile)
People concentrate on the capital costs of a vehicle, but many don't understand that the other costs can easily be far higher, over the life of the vehicle. That's where Toyota and Honda can do very well over the long term. They may cost more up front, but maintenance is often far less, and more miles are the result. Cost per mile is generally better on a Toyota.
Yes, I know, you can purchase a used Taurus from Grandma for $500, with 20,000 miles on it, and drive it another 200,000 miles, all while getting 30MPG. I've been looking for such a deal for 40 years!
I guess you know more then Dave Ramsey, the financial (get out of debt) guru on the radio, and TV, and author of lots of books. And a self-made multi-millionaire.
Dave would disagree with nearly everything that you wrote. And in fact, he would think that your advise leads to a financial mess.
Perhaps you should call Dave up. Offer to go on his show and straighten him out. It could be that you know something that he doesn't.
Seriously.
PS Thank you for being you. Without folks like yourself, the automobile industry would be out of business long ago, as would many banks, and financial companies. Oh, and I thank you too, for keeping the American economy proped up.
Hahaha, you are (all) welcome! And, Dave is a very smart guy! I'm not here to tell you he's wrong. Only that I prefer to own and drive newer vehicles when ever I can. And that the cost of new, done properly, may not be as steep as many think, when viewed on a "cost per mile basis".
Once again, you are welcome!
Famous quote: "Another ingredient in a happy marriage, Budget the luxuries first!"
If you would only follow your "cost per milage" basis, you too would see that replacing a perfectly good used high milage car with a brand new one would be a monumental mistake. I turn your "cost per milage" argument against you and use it to refute your point, so there ;-)
Originally Posted By: lovcom
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Quote:
I guess you know more then Dave Ramsey, the financial (get out of debt) guru on the radio, and TV, and author of lots of books. And a self-made multi-millionaire.
Anybody taking a guess on how he became so wealthy? Did it have anything do with selling his books and seminars?
No guessing required.
He made his first million before he sold books, got a TV show.
My point was that he did NOT make his millions using his methods himself. I guess people who don't get that are precisely his customers!
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Quote:
I guess you know more then Dave Ramsey, the financial (get out of debt) guru on the radio, and TV, and author of lots of books. And a self-made multi-millionaire.
Anybody taking a guess on how he became so wealthy? Did it have anything do with selling his books and seminars?
No guessing required.
He made his first million before he sold books, got a TV show.
My point was that he did NOT make his millions using his methods himself. I guess people who don't get that are precisely his customers!
Originally Posted By: Vikas
My point was that he did NOT make his millions using his methods himself. I guess people who don't get that are precisely his customers!
Completely apparent to many of us! Just ask yourself "what is he selling?"
Dr. Phil of Economics...
My point was that he did NOT make his millions using his methods himself. I guess people who don't get that are precisely his customers!
Completely apparent to many of us! Just ask yourself "what is he selling?"
Dr. Phil of Economics...
Originally Posted By: zerosoma
Originally Posted By: threeputtpar
Originally Posted By: 2Fast4U
Simply pull your ps belt or V belt and start the engine. Noise gone? If you aren't mechanically inclined hopefully you can at least do this and determine what the issue is.
This post and the one from rjundi are really the only constructive posts in this 44 post thread. Thank you to both of you.
I'm really disappointed that this is more of the norm than the exception on this website. I've read some of the threads from 6-7 years ago, and it was a whole different type of conversation back then. Guys going back and forth with good, helpful ideas and constructive criticism and almost no berating comments. It seems that too many posts become [censored] matches, with mods getting into it with other members.
thank YOU!!!!
Glad to help. Please report back if/when you figure out what the issue is....or what you decide to do.
Originally Posted By: threeputtpar
Originally Posted By: 2Fast4U
Simply pull your ps belt or V belt and start the engine. Noise gone? If you aren't mechanically inclined hopefully you can at least do this and determine what the issue is.
This post and the one from rjundi are really the only constructive posts in this 44 post thread. Thank you to both of you.
I'm really disappointed that this is more of the norm than the exception on this website. I've read some of the threads from 6-7 years ago, and it was a whole different type of conversation back then. Guys going back and forth with good, helpful ideas and constructive criticism and almost no berating comments. It seems that too many posts become [censored] matches, with mods getting into it with other members.
thank YOU!!!!
Glad to help. Please report back if/when you figure out what the issue is....or what you decide to do.
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