Stellantis and horrible public relations

[edyvw]

I was thinking of slapping this to another thread, but I think it deserves a separate topic.
This defies any logic and explains A LOT.

Everyone knows that Dodge/JEEP/RAM have these oil cooler issues, and everyone that can type few words into Google search engine, finds out in 0.000005 seconds what is fix:

And yet, here we are:
https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/m...llantis-faulty-dodge-durangos-sell-major-loss

I know this was topic before, I know we had various police departments complaining.

But what boggles my mind is that Stellantis STILL takes this corporate approach of "we stand behind the product, and trying to do best for the community; God Bless the United States."
I mean, Stellantis could easily develop fix, heck, they could get Dorman (OF ALL COMPANIES) to supply this fix. But no.
The public perception about Stellantis products is that their quality is abysmal. Looking last 20-30 years, it is not hard to blame the public. It is hard to see majority of Chrysler products from 2000-2010 on the roads today, with few exceptions. That experience stayed with people.
Remember, this oil cooler story and police departments complaining is not new story, and we talked about it here:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/police-dodge-durangos.371697/

Now, let's see how Toyota does it:
https://www.thedrive.com/news/28635...a-tundra-a-hot-new-look-to-honor-fallen-truck

Now, we are talking about a company that left numerous customers in a bind in 2017 with jerky 8-speed transmissions in Sienna and Highlander AWD models. Actually, my friend traded his 2017 HL for, be ready, Chrysler Pacifica after visiting a Toyota dealer some 36 or 38 times. Toyota will avoid recall under any circumstances unless NHTSA reacts (3.4TT, for example). Yet, their public relations team is absolutely laser-focused on exploiting these stories and creating a narrative of indestructible Toyota. Stellantis?

"The Dodge Durango Pursuit meets or exceeds all applicable federal motor vehicle safety standards and is subject to severe operating conditions to which the standard, retail version of the Durango is immune. Further, certain oil-cooler issues are difficult to detect, which may lead to collateral damage and a highly complex remedy. We sincerely regret any inconvenience caused to our valued police-community customers and are working to expedite service for any affected vehicles. Since the model launched in 2018, it has been deployed with thousands of police agencies across North America, and overall feedback has been exemplary."

Highly complex remedy???? I think one does not have to be Einstein to figure out that this has a lot to do with Stellantis current issues!
Someone should explain STellantis corporate bosses' golden rule: 'PERCEPTION IS REALITY!"

 

[Pew]

Wow, you'd think something as simple as an oil filter housing would be among the easiest things to engineer to not leak. Our local police department has just started purchasing the Durangos to replace the older explorers too.

 

[KrisZ]

I'm not convinced that these cheaply made aluminum oil filter housings/coolers are an actual fix. We have not seen them last long enough yet to proclaim that the issue will be fixed simply with the material change.

These oil filter housings sit on a flat, machined ports and the seals are just squeezed against the flat surface. Over time they become hard and flatten out and eventually start leaking especially when people or shops torque down the oil filter cap. The same failure will likely happen with the aluminum housing.

The proper fix is to re-design the way the cooler passages interface with the deck, so it definitely would be a complex remedy.

But as far as public relations and image goes, I agree they do a bad job at it for sure. Toyota milks every opportunity it has. One would think with so much law enforcement activity going on using domestic products, they would use the "success" stories a lot more.

 

[OVERKILL]

Wow, you'd think something as simple as an oil filter housing would be among the easiest things to engineer to not leak. Our local police department has just started purchasing the Durangos to replace the older explorers too.

It is, Dorman already did it, the fact that Stellantis refuses to adopt that fix boggles the mind.

 

[OVERKILL]

I'm not convinced that these cheaply made aluminum oil filter housings/coolers are an actual fix. We have not seen them last long enough yet to proclaim that the issue will be fixed simply with the material change.

These oil filter housings sit on a flat, machined ports and the seals are just squeezed against the flat surface. Over time they become hard and flatten out and eventually start leaking especially when people or shops torque down the oil filter cap. The same failure will likely happen with the aluminum housing.

The proper fix is to re-design the way the cooler passages interface with the deck, so it definitely would be a complex remedy.

But as far as public relations and image goes, I agree they do a bad job at it for sure. Toyota milks every opportunity it has. One would think with so much law enforcement activity going on using domestic products, they would use the "success" stories a lot more.

My M5 had an aluminum outboard oil filter housing, mounted to the strut tower. Made oil changes a breeze. I think the aluminum housing should hold up fine, not really different from the heat exchanger bolted to the block with the spin-on filter setup on the HEMI, which is generally pretty rugged.

 

[edyvw]

I'm not convinced that these cheaply made aluminum oil filter housings/coolers are an actual fix. We have not seen them last long enough yet to proclaim that the issue will be fixed simply with the material change.

These oil filter housings sit on a flat, machined ports and the seals are just squeezed against the flat surface. Over time they become hard and flatten out and eventually start leaking especially when people or shops torque down the oil filter cap. The same failure will likely happen with the aluminum housing.

The proper fix is to re-design the way the cooler passages interface with the deck, so it definitely would be a complex remedy.

But as far as public relations and image goes, I agree they do a bad job at it for sure. Toyota milks every opportunity it has. One would think with so much law enforcement activity going on using domestic products, they would use the "success" stories a lot more.

I don’t know how long Dorman will last. I said before, where Dorman is upgrade, I don’t want to know rest of the car. But, apparently it is some kind of fix and works better. Remember, this is not just simple leak. Engines fail as early as 15,000mls. One would think that after being on the market for so long they would at least provide better quality housing or completely redesign housing. I mean it is company that makes Ferrari. If this is “highly complex remedy” after all these years, maybe they should move to growing potatoes.

 

[bullwinkle]

Amazingly, our backup ‘15 Dodge GC 3.6 still has the ORIGINAL plastic oil cooler/filter assembly at 197K! My indy mechanic was amazed it was still on it & undamaged when they did the oil change on it recently. So maybe if one is careful, & lucky, the (admittedly poorly engineered) original can last?

 

[edyvw]

Amazingly, our backup ‘15 Dodge GC 3.6 still has the ORIGINAL plastic oil cooler/filter assembly at 197K! My indy mechanic was amazed it was still on it & undamaged when they did the oil change on it recently. So maybe if one is careful, & lucky, the (admittedly poorly engineered) original can last?

It could be also that supplier is different. But, let’s put on a side the fact that changing oil should not be neurosurgery. Our Sherrif’s department has its own shop. To expect oil changes not to be done as fast as possible in department where they are always short 100-200 deputies and where deployment of every vehicle is critical, is bit too much.
Whatever, the fact that Stellantis allowed this to become issue where big corporation screwd over small community police department is actually achievement.

 

[edyvw]

If you put in Google search: "Dodge Durango problems," this is 4th result:

 

[Boomer]

Says a LOT about who really runs the company.... bean counters. Fix it at $1 a car..no thanks. Why that would cost millions. Screw the buyer.

 

[KrisZ]

My M5 had an aluminum outboard oil filter housing, mounted to the strut tower. Made oil changes a breeze. I think the aluminum housing should hold up fine, not really different from the heat exchanger bolted to the block with the spin-on filter setup on the HEMI, which is generally pretty rugged.

This oil filter/cooler housing is design is quite unique when compared to others. It's long and narrow and when torquing the oil filter cap, the whole housing experiences a twisting torque and since it's so narrow, it's easy to disturb the seals when done over and over again. Plus if some tech goes gorilla on it, it can crack as well.
Aluminum will definitely help with the twisting action and housing flex, but by how much, we don't know yet.

 

[edyvw]

Says a LOT about who really runs the company.... bean counters. Fix it at $1 a car..no thanks. Why that would cost millions. Screw the buyer.

Serious company:
1. We will replace al your vehicles. Do you want upgrade to HEMI?
2. CEO of Dodge (maybe Stellantis) will personally deliver keys.
3. Cookout for all your department employees.
4. Bring all media.

 

[97K15004WD]

KrisZ hit the nail on the head. On the other forums I frequent (3.6L engine), the oil filter assembly (OFA) is not always the problem. Some of the first OFAs would indeed crack, but that issue was resolved (side note - OFAs were made in multiple places over the years).

Now the issue is the seals. They go flat, even with the Dorman. Minivan forums report the seals for the Dorman are inferior to the stock seals, and then only last so long before the problem repeats itself.

I have a Jeep product with the same original oil cooler, but the dealership has replaced the seals twice now in 70K miles because of oil leaks (so a total of three sets of seals with the original cooler).

It's the higher oil pressure seals that fail, not usually the coolant seals.

So yes, it is a bad design without a very easy fix. Will IMO require a redesign of the block interface and a corresponding change to the OFA.

 

[gfh77665]

 

[dfarr67]

I wouldn't shed a tear if stellantis went away and the bones were picked over.

 

[edyvw]

KrisZ hit the nail on the head. On the other forums I frequent (3.6L engine), the oil filter assembly (OFA) is not always the problem. Some of the first OFAs would indeed crack, but that issue was resolved (side note - OFAs were made in multiple places over the years).

Now the issue is the seals. They go flat, even with the Dorman. Minivan forums report the seals for the Dorman are inferior to the stock seals, and then only last so long before the problem repeats itself.

I have a Jeep product with the same original oil cooler, but the dealership has replaced the seals twice now in 70K miles because of oil leaks (so a total of three sets of seals with the original cooler).

It's the higher oil pressure seals that fail, not usually the coolant seals.

So yes, it is a bad design without a very easy fix. Will IMO require a redesign of the block interface and a corresponding change to the OFA.

They could redesign it 10 times by now!

 

[meep]

Amazingly, our backup ‘15 Dodge GC 3.6 still has the ORIGINAL plastic oil cooler/filter assembly at 197K! My indy mechanic was amazed it was still on it & undamaged when they did the oil change on it recently. So maybe if one is careful, & lucky, the (admittedly poorly engineered) original can last?

Maybe a summer intern built that one

 

[zzyzzx]

Serious company:
2. CEO of Dodge (maybe Stellantis) will personally deliver keys.

This is the same guy who thinks Stellantis biggest problem is a lack of an affordable EV.

 

[OLEJOE]

It’s just as bad on the diesel side too with all of the emissions problems and frequent regeneration and fuel dilution in the oil. Continuous problems with no solutions.

 

[nthach]

You’d think with Hengst providing the cooler they’d work with Stellantis on this to improve the design.

I feel while the Detroit 3 are to varying degrees oblivious to the consumer and effectively gave Toyota and HyunKia the sedan market, Stellantis is the worse at it - trying to pawn off Fiats and Alfa Romeos onto the American public and operating with the wool over their eyes - neglecting some of their brands like Chrysler, and making Jeep becoming more like an American Range Rover isn’t what made them what they were - an affordable but comfy and capable SUV. The Detroit 3 are foolishly going all in with EVs against Tesla but the infrastructure ain’t there yet - it’s they’re only way not to do Euro-style downsizing just to meet CAFE but allow them to sell profitable trucks and SUVs.