Just why is synthetic oil so better?

[Bryanccfshr]

quote:

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Originally posted by tenderloin:
But TooSlick you are not proving that synthetic oil is superior to conventional oil in all situations.


No, not in all situations. If the car is stored....well maybe not even then LOL

It is all about what you want to pay and value/perceived value. For a few bucks a qt extra, synthetic oil is the way to go for me. I like the extra protection/cleaning/extended drain intervals that it provides.

Considering the cost of today's automobiles, it is a no brainer...for me.

Besides I got all the Pep Boys Mobil 1 at Buy 3 get 3 free I could ever need, and topped it off with $1-$2 qt. Havoline and Maxlife synthetic oil from Autozone clearance. Even picked up some new Pennzoil Platinum synthetic for under $2 a qt with rebate..so I have the best of both worlds. Top quality at a low price

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I would love to choose one good oil and stick with it. I am simply too easily swayed by all these good deals. M1 cheap.. Valvoline Maxlife synthetic. cheap, And I may be picking up six qts of that Platinum stuff this weekend. I am getting all these synthetics for 2 bucks or less a quart. I can't stop myself when I see a good oil that cheap. I
.. Self admitted clearance oil horder..

 

[TooSlick]

tenderloin,

The proof is the 27 years of experience I have with synthetic lubricants in all sorts of applications....

I've been changing oil once a year in all my vehicles since 1978, under all sorts of operating conditions with extremely good results. Of course most of my experience has been with Amsoil, however I'm convinced that had I used Redline or Mobil 1 the results would have been equally impressive. My local customers have been doing these sorts of extended drain intervals since about 1994, when I began actively selling Amsoil again (I'd last sold it when I was attending graduate school at Georgia Tech from 1979-1981).

The main effect of short trip and/or stop and go driving is increased oxidation due to fuel,moisture and combustion by-products. However, if you look at controlled lab tests like the ASTM D-4742, "Thin Film Oxygen Uptake Test", you'll see that the best, PAO/Ester based synthetics last at least twice as long as even Group III, based synthetics. For example some recent data I saw from Amsoil showed that Mobil 1 lasted for about 400 hours in this test, compared to only 200 hours for Castrol Syntec or Valvoline Synpower. Some of the ultra-premium synthetics like Redline, Royal Purple, Amsoil, Delvac 1, etc, last even longer that this, ie well in excess of 500 hours. This equates to longer oil life even under severe service conditions....

In the ASTM D-4742 test, the oil sample is contaminated with oxidized/nitrated fuel, moisture and a soluble copper catalyst to speed the reaction time. So it's an excellent test to analog short trip driving conditions. This is one of the more useful lab tests and verifies the results I've seen in actual field applications.

The gap between petroleum oils and the best synthetics isn't closing. What is actually happening is that even conventional oils are using Group III basestocks and small amounts of organic esters to improve their performance. So in effect, ALL engine oils are slowly becoming synthetic. You'll see this trend continue in the next 5-10 years and straight petroleum oils using Group I and/or Group II basestocks will be unsuitable for most automotive applications. The good news is that the price of these products with be reduced, once Group III production ramps up world wide and "Gas To Liquids" (GTL) technology comes to fruition.

Tooslick

 

[rjundi]

A few things there really is no concrete proof over the life of a vehicle(that only is speced for dino) that synthetic oil will extend it. Most cars are "junked" due to another component, ie tramission or emmissions system and not a mechanical failure related to oil.

The ASTM tests don't really relate too well to a real world engine and its life. Yes there is less wear and they are cleaner but does this necessarily mean that the engine has any significant loss of power. I have not seen one test where they actually put the car on a dyno to see any difference.

That being said go with what you like. Some people like expensive wine others like their Bud. In my case I stick to quality dino.

 

[TooSlick]

I didn't say it would extend the life of the engine, however synlubes do minimize high temp deposits, so the performance will degrade less over time than it will with conventional oils. It is hard to beat the wear rates you'll see with 3000 mile oil change intervals, without going to bypass filtration systems....

The main benefits I've gotten with Amsoil are greatly extended service intervals for engine oil, ATF and gear lubricants, along with a consistent improvement in fuel efficiency.

This improvement in fuel efficiency is typically on the order of 4%-7% if you change over the transmission and differential as well as the engine oil - and run the Series 2000/3000 products in gas/diesel engines, respectively. That's in comparison to running a 10w30 or 15w40 conventional oil in gas/diesel engines, along with regular ATF and petroleum gear lube.

Ted

 

[1sttruck]

There are obviously different reasons why engines wear out, and different solutions to minimize wear. While a major breakdown like seized bearings or such is a reason, loss of power due to wear might be the most common reason that people get rid of a vehicle, and it often exhibits other symptoms like blue smoke, won't pass emmissions, etc. The two biggest contributors to wear seem to be particles and 'loss of lubrication'. The primary reasons for 'loss of lubrication' are restricted flow due to sludge and varnish, loss of film due to load and/or temperature and/or excessive clearances and/or 'oil breakdown' such as loss of viscosity, tbn, etc.

High quality conventional and synthetic oils seem to address the 'loss of lubrication' issues, but they don't prevent wear due to particles. Well, maybe their film strength provides a bit more margin. From what I've seen a good HDEO conventional will work better than some synthetics in general applications provided viscosity is adequate, and in a diesel better than all PCMOs ?, so additive package needs to be considered as well as base stock. Looking at the recommendations from Cummins, Volvo and Detroit Diesel, they all state that you can't extend oil change intervals just because you're using a synthetic. While the diesels have soot to contend with particles, loss of TBN, etc. are also a concern.

Going on '1st principles' it also seems that a thin oil will be suffer more wear for a given exposure to particles as the film thickness is obviously thinner, but I don't see that dicussed as often.

 

[TooSlick]

There are many, very average synthetic lubes on the market and only a few outstanding ones, ie the usual suspects.

I believe bad experiences with some of these second tier products color the perception folks have regarding the potential of this technology....

I'm specifically talking about Redline, Delvac 1, Amsoil, Royal Purple, GC/0w-30, etc and not the 8-9 TBN, Group III based "synthetics" you can buy for < $4.00/quart. The Mobil 1, EP should make this short list as well....

 

[like a rock]

TooSlick- How would you classify Havoline 10w30 synthetic as average with a flash point of near 500. Amsoil's best is around 440 I think. And the havoline is a group 3 oil. Yes the tbn is around 9 but the base stock must be pretty stout.

 

[Ken4]

After doing my own Auto-RX on a vehicle that has always used synthetics, Im not too sure about synthetics being able to clean up internals and keep the internals clean.