Synthetic is superior...so WHY use conventional???

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: SirTanon
Originally Posted By: Ed_Flecko
Originally Posted By: Smokescreen
...your interest in it.[/i][/b]


O.K., let's say, like most people, you decide to sell the car at some point.

Would it make any difference to YOU if your were buying a used car, and you asked the seller what type of oil they use and the seller said "I use SuperDuper Synthetic" or if they said "I use bargain basement Brand X from the Dollar Store"?

It would make HUGE difference to ME.

Ed


Wow.. quite the Black-or-White argument there.. and missing about 95% of the real world cases.

Let me pose a counter-question to you:

What if it was these two choices?

1 - "I use SuperDuper Synthetic, but only changed it once every 25,000 miles"
2 - "I use bargain basement Brand X from the Dollar Store, that was SN certified and met my car's oil wight requirements, and changed it every 3,000 miles"

Would that change your decision?

Now, say we add a third and 4th:

3 - "I use (Pennzoil/Quaker State/Valvoline/Castrol/Mobil) conventional oil and changed it every 5,000 miles, exactly as my manual called for"

4 - "I use (Pennzoil/Quaker State/Valvoline/Castrol/Mobil) synthetic oil and changed it every 10,000 miles, although my manual called for 5,000 miles"

... What is your choice now?


Good point.

Also it seems most people who think they run synthetic automatically think they can have an extended OCI regardless of driving style. City driving, short trips etc.

And no .. Synthetic is not "superior" to conventional.

 

[kschachn]

Or engine though. My 1MZ-FE there's no way I would even consider an extended interval. OTOH, my 1NZ-FE? All the time, no problem.

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Also it seems most people who think they run synthetic automatically think they can have an extended OCI regardless of driving style. City driving, short trips etc.

 

[Ed_Flecko]

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: SirTanon
Originally Posted By: Ed_Flecko
Originally Posted By: Smokescreen
...your interest in it.[/i][/b]


O.K., let's say, like most people, you decide to sell the car at some point.

Would it make any difference to YOU if your were buying a used car, and you asked the seller what type of oil they use and the seller said "I use SuperDuper Synthetic" or if they said "I use bargain basement Brand X from the Dollar Store"?

It would make HUGE difference to ME.

Ed


Wow.. quite the Black-or-White argument there.. and missing about 95% of the real world cases.

Let me pose a counter-question to you:

What if it was these two choices?

1 - "I use SuperDuper Synthetic, but only changed it once every 25,000 miles"
2 - "I use bargain basement Brand X from the Dollar Store, that was SN certified and met my car's oil wight requirements, and changed it every 3,000 miles"

Would that change your decision?

Now, say we add a third and 4th:

3 - "I use (Pennzoil/Quaker State/Valvoline/Castrol/Mobil) conventional oil and changed it every 5,000 miles, exactly as my manual called for"

4 - "I use (Pennzoil/Quaker State/Valvoline/Castrol/Mobil) synthetic oil and changed it every 10,000 miles, although my manual called for 5,000 miles"

... What is your choice now?


Good point.

Also it seems most people who think they run synthetic automatically think they can have an extended OCI regardless of driving style. City driving, short trips etc.

And no .. Synthetic is not "superior" to conventional.



As it relates to the protection of the motor, can you give me an example of something (i.e., characteristic) that a conventional oil would do or offer that a synthetic wouldn't do better?

Ed

 

[4wheeldog]

[/quote]

As it relates to the protection of the motor, can you give me an example of something (i.e., characteristic) that a conventional oil would do or offer that a synthetic wouldn't do better?

Ed [/quote]

Uh, cost less? Allowing timely changes. Duh.....

 

[Clevy]

In all my years driving I've never worn out an engine. I've got work vans with over 400k on the odo,previously owned trucks that were totalled with 450k,2 actually. All on the cheapest conventional oils I can find.

Synthetic oils last longer in service. They don't lubricate better,they aren't more slippery,they last longer.
That is all.

 

[Ed_Flecko]

4wheeldog - I'm guessing you missed the "As it relates to the protection of the motor" comment? Duh...

 

[4wheeldog]

Originally Posted By: Ed_Flecko
4wheeldog - I'm guessing you missed the "As it relates to the protection of the motor" comment? Duh...



Nope. Changing oil on a timely basis is protective to the motor. Making it less expensive is to do so is what a conventional oil does. Think about it.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Synthetic oils last longer in service. They don't lubricate better,they aren't more slippery,they last longer.
That is all.

Incorrect.

Some of them do lubricate better. They also tend to pump better when cold, retain viscosity better when hot, and evaporate off less quickly. Sometimes they also leave fewer deposits.

The question is whether your engine will realize those benefits. Most won't. But that doesn't change the facts.

 

[Dallas69]

Using dino in an engine that calls for it will last just as long as one using syn
Just change it out when its time

 

[wemay]

Went to the dealer this weekend for my oil change ( I bring my own oil ). There was a guy waiting for his oil change to wrap up and we talked for a few. He owns a 2010 ( bought in '09) Sonata 2.4, like mine. This is a GDi vehicle, driven every day in Miami's heavy traffic. The car has 143,000 miles on the odo. He has used nothing but Quaker State Advanced Durability (QSGB) 'because that's what the OM says'. NEVER a hint of a problem. His oci span is 5-7K miles.

The S. Advisor mentioned that with Hyundai's conservative oci recommendations, synthetic isn't necessary, even for the turbo! This for a platform considered hard on oil.

If the time comes where my stash is no more and I can't find synthetic on sale, I'll have 0 issue using a conventional. The turbo has never used anything but blends or syn.

 

[SilverSnake]

I have a simple philosophy when it comes to taking care of my vehicles. Treat every one like it the last one you will ever own. When it comes to oil, I use the best available and change it frequently.

 

[wemay]

...and when you drink beer, you drink Dos Equis XX.

 

[TiredTrucker]

Well, it is one thing to have a good quality oil in the engine, but one does not have to take out a second mortgage to buy it. There are some very high quality oils that more than meet most everyone's needs at decent pricing.

As for some synthetic being superior than any conventional? Sure, in a lab setting. But one is going to have a hard time convincing me that my Cummins N-14 would have done much better on a synthetic than the 1.4 million miles it ran under Kendall 15w40 conventional, getting 30,000 mile OCI's, year round even in -25F starting temps, and no bypass filtration. It never had a major repair except 1 injector, and an accessory drive seal. The truck got sold, and went right to work for the next owner. At 1.4 million miles it still only used about 1 gallon of oil in 8,000 miles, or a quart every 2. Not bad for a 14L commercial engine with that kind of time on it. Most gas engines can't make it to 100,000 miles before they are using more oil than that.

Sure, a synthetic is a better base oil. But to whom? I like synthetics in some applications, but it seems that from the general consumer level, it is more of a "it makes me feel better" thing than some documented thing that it will do much better than a conventional or at most, a blend. But the companies will provide on the shelves what folks are willing to buy. And the marketing folks will crank out the latest fancy ads to get more people on the bandwagon. I have been just as guilty as some, falling for marketing hype. I take things more in stride now.

 

[Errtt]

If conventional wasn't up to the task of normal OCI's, wouldn't it be common discussion/knowledge here on BITOG - and the folks at Blackstone probably wouldn't use it also.

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: Ed_Flecko
As it relates to the protection of the motor, can you give me an example of something (i.e., characteristic) that a conventional oil would do or offer that a synthetic wouldn't do better?

Ed



Protection would be similar between the 2. If you want to talk about a difference, let's discuss cost. If you short tripped your naturally aspirated engine, would you still continue to purchase synthetic? I personally wouldn't. Quality dino would be great for that situation. I personally go 5000 miles as most of my driving is highway. Going longer than that between changes doesn't interest me. Like others, I prefer frequent changes.

Now, tell me what a synthetic will do that a conventional wont do.. (Don't throw the turbo coking or extreme cold/ hot performance at me. I live in indiana and drive a Jeep with an engine based off of 40+ year old technology.)

 

[crazyoildude]

in most older engines dino is the best because of leaks.. If you have a new engine use syn from the first oil change and use it forever that would be the best. I have been in the engine business for a long time and have seen it all.

 

[wemay]

Lubrizol thinks otherwise. Plain old GF-5 (found in most API SN oils, conventional on up) being sufficient to protect both, turbo's and GDi.

Link is in my sig:
Lubrizol has tested our ILSAC GF-5 engine oil additives in the most demanding real world driving in the heat of the deserts of Arizona and the congestion of Las Vegas. Our million-mile plus field trails clearly shows ILSAC GF-5 products are up to the challenge of providing outstanding protection from engine wear. All current and newly introduced engine technologies were tested including the latest GDI (gasoline direct injection) twin turbo charged engine in the 2010 Ford Flex. ILSAC GF-5 will keep your engine running like new and provide protection from wear no matter if you drive an older car or the latest high tech vehicle.

Blackstone Labs feels the same way. Check their F.A.Q. section.

 

[Nate1979]

If GF-5 was sufficient why are they developing a GF-6?

GF-6a has improved turbo protection vs GF-5.

http://www.gf-6.com/specification_details

 

[wemay]

Because as with everthing else in life, there's always room for improvement.

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: wemay
Because as with everthing else in life, there's always room for improvement.

Excellent answer.