Synthetic is superior...so WHY use conventional???

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Originally Posted By: Ed_Flecko
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
Personally, I'm glad to have choices available as a consumer.

Since I cook outdoors a lot, I'll make an analogy with beef.

I can buy USDA select, USDA Choice, or USDA Prime, but each tier typically has its own pricing for a given cut.

If I can find USDA Choice or USDA Prime at a competitive or even lower cost than USDA Select, can you guess which grade I'll buy?

Does this mean I completely avoid USDA Select? Absolutely not, especially when I find I can buy a whole USDA Select tenderloin at $7/lb.
I buy grass fed beef. way, way healthier and it doesn't have that rancid after taste of corn finished [censored] feed beef.


And let's not forget that the corn is likely GMO, courtesy of our friends at Monsanto.

smile.gif


Ed


So you use Group V beef stocks?
 
Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
Originally Posted By: Ed_Flecko
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
Personally, I'm glad to have choices available as a consumer.

Since I cook outdoors a lot, I'll make an analogy with beef.

I can buy USDA select, USDA Choice, or USDA Prime, but each tier typically has its own pricing for a given cut.

If I can find USDA Choice or USDA Prime at a competitive or even lower cost than USDA Select, can you guess which grade I'll buy?

Does this mean I completely avoid USDA Select? Absolutely not, especially when I find I can buy a whole USDA Select tenderloin at $7/lb.
I buy grass fed beef. way, way healthier and it doesn't have that rancid after taste of corn finished [censored] feed beef.


And let's not forget that the corn is likely GMO, courtesy of our friends at Monsanto.

smile.gif


Ed


So you use Group V beef stocks?
Perfect analogy
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Why not consider a "Blend," a semi-synthetic, or what is sometimes called a, "para-synthetic," and get the best of both worlds at a decent price?



^^^^this^^^^

there is a thread on the forum, of which i can't find that discussed the blend quite possibly providing better protection and for some reason this has stuck in my mind.

i will keep looking and link it in if i find it.
 
Originally Posted By: volk06
When I can start buying synthetic at $0.69/qt for all the vehicles then I'll use only full synthetic. For a 3-5K OCI the citgo synthetic blend for 0.69/qt is a better option. Why would I spend $19 on full synthetic, when I can do a whole OCI for ~$8. 5qts citgo + 3.27 puro classic or napa silver. I can do 2 OCIs for less than the cost of 1 5qt jug of synthetic oil.

I do use full synthetic on the ecoboost for being DI and TT.


For the past few months I've been getting PP for $0.53/qt after rebates and fuel incentives.
 
Originally Posted By: Ed_Flecko
I thought I was the only one who runs Mobile 1 - Extended Performance in my lawn mower!


I'm pretty sure you are. I don't think Mobile, AL, has its own brand of oil. Rather, you're probably using ExxonMobil's Mobil 1 Extended Performance.
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: IveBeenRued
Originally Posted By: volk06
When I can start buying synthetic at $0.69/qt for all the vehicles then I'll use only full synthetic. For a 3-5K OCI the citgo synthetic blend for 0.69/qt is a better option. Why would I spend $19 on full synthetic, when I can do a whole OCI for ~$8. 5qts citgo + 3.27 puro classic or napa silver. I can do 2 OCIs for less than the cost of 1 5qt jug of synthetic oil.

I do use full synthetic on the ecoboost for being DI and TT.


For the past few months I've been getting PP for $0.53/qt after rebates and fuel incentives.


That'd be nice. I no longer have a Shell gas station anywhere near me.
 
Originally Posted By: Ed_Flecko
Originally Posted By: Smokescreen
...your interest in it.[/i][/b]


O.K., let's say, like most people, you decide to sell the car at some point.

Would it make any difference to YOU if your were buying a used car, and you asked the seller what type of oil they use and the seller said "I use SuperDuper Synthetic" or if they said "I use bargain basement Brand X from the Dollar Store"?

It would make HUGE difference to ME.

smile.gif


Ed


For my beater... I am the last stop before the auto-shredder. So, why are synthetics a must again?

If I am buying a used car, cheap tires are a BIG indication that the vehicle was run on a budget... and that cheaper parts or neglect might be lurking.
 
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc

For my beater... I am the last stop before the auto-shredder. So, why are synthetics a must again?


No one said "they are a must". Thats your words.
 
Now, M1 EP @ 15K miles vs "regular" M1 at 7.5K miles.... now just toss in a manufacturer warranty with a 7.5 interval requirement... which would you chose? The better oil?
 
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
XOM does not address your particular feeling on yearly changes or driving habits.

Sure they do. XOM recommends you follow your engine manufacturer's OCI, and in the US most of them require that you change your oil at least annually.
 
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
No one said "they are a must". Thats your words.


Originally Posted By: Ed_Flecko
I guess part of my confusion is that your motor is THE main component of your vehicle and you'd want to do the best you can to protect it?


I would say it was very heavily implied.


Originally Posted By: Ed_Flecko
I also can tell that some of these same people LOVE their vehicles and will go to extremes to upgrade this and change that, etc., etc., but say "Oh, that's O.K., I'm only going to keep the vehicle until x date, so it doesn't matter, etc."

Is it me?...or do some of you ruminate on this topic also?

smile.gif


Ed
 
2 things I've observed over the years of motor oil consumption:

(1) with the latest ILSAC GF-5/API SN spec and requirements, conventional oil should be properly labeled as Gp II+, typically with a blend of Gp III or higher base oil in order to meet certain certification criteria.

In other words: conventional oil (no, don't hogwash me with the term "dino" oil like your granpa used back in days of yore) should be relabeled as para-syn or semi-syn.

(2) GpIII or higher so call "Synthetic" motor oil labeled and sold in NA also comes with a blend of GpII oil in order to achieve or meet certain properties so as to meet/exceed GF-5 or ILSAC specifications.

In other words: unless you are going with boutique oils, otherwise: there's still a chance that your so-called "full-syn" oil is not 100% full-syn, and yet still comes with a bit of GpII oil to obtain certain properties desired to meet the specifications.

Lastly: conventional motor oil has came a long way from the days of yore (i.e from SAE SB era until now), and their performance difference is narrowed when comparing with the so-called "full syn" oil.

Yes, some may claim full-syn leaves less deposits, pumps better in lower ambient temperatures, lasts longer between OCI, etc. but to my utilitarian, mass-produced automobiles, conventional oil still works out to my advantage, regardless.

Other than some specifically engineered engine/automobiles that call for "full syn" oil starting from day one, most avg. joes automobiles run happily on the roads everyday with conventional oil, and still lasts considerably long service life.

Most so-called oil-related engine issues, other than design and workmanship defects and such, most others are attributed to user's negligence.

chances are: your auto-body panels, trannie, etc. will die long before your engine blows/seize up.

Q.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
XOM does not address your particular feeling on yearly changes or driving habits.

Sure they do. XOM recommends you follow your engine manufacturer's OCI, and in the US most of them require that you change your oil at least annually.


You could "feel" you need to adhere to the archaic 3000 mile interval, too.

NO, XOM did not address that particular posters maintenance "feelings" when they applied the 5000 mile and 15,000 mile labels to their products.
 
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
XOM does not address your particular feeling on yearly changes or driving habits.

Sure they do. XOM recommends you follow your engine manufacturer's OCI, and in the US most of them require that you change your oil at least annually.


You could "feel" you need to adhere to the archaic 3000 mile interval, too.

NO, XOM did not address that particular posters maintenance "feelings" when they applied the 5000 mile and 15,000 mile labels to their products.

That poster's "feelings" aside, have you seen the fine print on M1 EP's limited warranty?

Quote:
Additional requirements for all Mobil 1 Extended Performance products include:

- an oil change must be completed every twelve (12) months
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
XOM does not address your particular feeling on yearly changes or driving habits.

Sure they do. XOM recommends you follow your engine manufacturer's OCI, and in the US most of them require that you change your oil at least annually.


You could "feel" you need to adhere to the archaic 3000 mile interval, too.

NO, XOM did not address that particular posters maintenance "feelings" when they applied the 5000 mile and 15,000 mile labels to their products.

That poster's "feelings" aside, have you seen the fine print on M1 EP's limited warranty?

Quote:
Additional requirements for all Mobil 1 Extended Performance products include:

- an oil change must be completed every twelve (12) months



No point in arguing with him......He ain't listening, except to himself. (Oh, and I am "That particular poster!)
 
Originally Posted By: Ed_Flecko
I guess part of my confusion is that your motor is THE main component of your vehicle and you'd want to do the best you can to protect it? I think for most people, if the motor dies they're going to dump the vehicle.

I can see purchasing a lower quality tire, wiper blades, etc., etc., etc., for your car, but it just seems like spending a few dollars more for an oil that you KNOW is high quality might make sense? Even IF you think you're buying a better oil than you need?

Ed
How namy oil related engine failures are there? Transmissions fail and at a certain point that is what ends the ownership of the car. That being said most tranny failures are from parts breaking before the parts wearing out on at least a properly maintained tranny.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Ed_Flecko
Vehicles are very expensive - don't you want it to last as long as it can and run as well as it can?

Why do you assume that mineral oil won't let you achieve that?

Some peculiar use cases aside, synthetics are primarily beneficial in extended drains because then you save time (and money) as you don't have to service your vehicle as often. But you can achieve similar results by running a modern mineral oil and just changing it more frequently.

Agreed.

My 20 years old 370+k miles LS400 had 6-8k/6mo OCI with dino and 12-15k/12mo with syn since new, oil filter was changed once a year. The engine is running well without any problem, I don't know the condition under the valve cover because the valve cover gasket was never changed.

For non-extended drain interval, dino is as good as syn for most engines. Even for engines with redline as high as 9,000 RPM such as Honda S2000 AP1.
 
Originally Posted By: Ed_Flecko
Originally Posted By: Smokescreen
...your interest in it.[/i][/b]


O.K., let's say, like most people, you decide to sell the car at some point.

Would it make any difference to YOU if your were buying a used car, and you asked the seller what type of oil they use and the seller said "I use SuperDuper Synthetic" or if they said "I use bargain basement Brand X from the Dollar Store"?

It would make HUGE difference to ME.

smile.gif


Ed


Wow.. quite the Black-or-White argument there.. and missing about 95% of the real world cases.

Let me pose a counter-question to you:

What if it was these two choices?

1 - "I use SuperDuper Synthetic, but only changed it once every 25,000 miles"
2 - "I use bargain basement Brand X from the Dollar Store, that was SN certified and met my car's oil wight requirements, and changed it every 3,000 miles"

Would that change your decision?

Now, say we add a third and 4th:

3 - "I use (Pennzoil/Quaker State/Valvoline/Castrol/Mobil) conventional oil and changed it every 5,000 miles, exactly as my manual called for"

4 - "I use (Pennzoil/Quaker State/Valvoline/Castrol/Mobil) synthetic oil and changed it every 10,000 miles, although my manual called for 5,000 miles"

... What is your choice now?
 
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