Another question about synthetics...

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91
Location
SW Ohio
Two statements concerning synthetic oils follow. I am not a proponent of either of these positions; these are strictly for the purposes of discussion. Extended drains are not taken into consideration here. 1. Synthetic oils are no better than conventional oils (aka dino) except in extreme conditions that are truely corner cases for the average driver. Most UOAs show no real difference between synthetic and dino, leading one to believe that synthetics aren't superior to dino at effectively lubricating an engine under most conditions. 2. ConocoPhillips SM oils are synthetic blends, with some suggesting that they may contain as much as 50% GPIII synthetic. I have even heard some say that CP "had" to go to a synthetic blend to get their oils to meet SM specifications. That seems extreme, but it is interesting that CP went to a synthetic blend for their SM oil. CP isn't a bunch of dummies, so there must have been a good reason for them to use a synthetic blend in order to certify to SM specs. So, why would CP change to a synthetic blend for their SM oils if there is no benefit to synthetic oil? Is it simply that under real world driving conditions synthetic has no advantage, but for the purposes of meeting the SM standard in the laboratory the synthetic offers attractive properties? By the way, I use both so I consider myself fairly neutral here.
 
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1,183
Location
Vermont
Using the term "synthetic" doesn't immediately bring to mind G3 oil, if you catch my drift. I'm going to step out on a limb to say that reasons could be very much like that as to why G1 oil's aren't used. CP could also, with the angle of approach on additive selection and balance, find it works best for them/in their best interests to make use of a higher grade base oil rather than more exotic, potentially more costly, and more experimental packages (partnerships?). Remember, the base oil is what provides the foundation for lubrication, while additives supports the oil and provide a sacrificial buffer when lubricating films are breached, among other things. Lube oil and additives...intended to be a complementary, synergystic relationship of properties - so it has been written around here.
 
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4,286
Location
Central Wisconsin
The first statement is ¢rappe'. Synthetic oils are superior in most all ways to regular oil. lower friction, more acid resistence, more heat stable, better cold temp. pumping, cleaner engines, etc., etc..
 

Bill in Utah

Staff member
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12,849
Location
UT
Quote:
The first statement is ¢rappe'. Synthetic oils are superior in most all ways to regular oil. lower friction, more acid resistence, more heat stable, better cold temp. pumping, cleaner engines, etc., etc..
wonder how all those engines out there are making it to hundreds of thousands of miles and NOT running Syn? Amazing...
 
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47,765
Location
Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
If there is nothing to the "synthetic oil is better" theory - why is that it took all this time, money and human energy to come up with "conventional" oils that are just beginning to improve to the point that a few physical properties are just touching the lower confidence interval of the bottom tier of older synthetic oils? Face it - until the latest few API/ILSAC GF-3/4 testing requirements, Group I motor oils were not so durable. Jumping into the future, even GM is saying the average OLM run is 8K miles, petroleum is forever seeming to become more scarce and even motor oil should not be wasted. I'm thinking that no engine of mine will have Group 1 oil in it for 8K+ miles - so I am glad for the newer API standards (SM for example). However, will these conventional oils go 10K+? A few (1 or 2?) have but this is still like butta territory for a good synthetic motor oil.
 
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637
Location
Alberta, Canada
Some synthetic oils have an advantage over the group I & II's right out of the bottle. An example would be the 0w20 and 0w30 oils. They are closer to the ideal viscosity index oil than any other, especially the 0w20. In addition to being better from day one (if you choose the right oil), synthetics stay there longer even over the standard OEM recommended OCI's. A blend is another matter. Group I&II's have higher natural solvency of sludge, but are poorer in performance in all other categories. Perhaps adding them to a Group III would be beneficial.
 

Bill in Utah

Staff member
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12,849
Location
UT
Quote:
I'm thinking that no engine of mine will have Group 1 oil in it for 8K+ miles
Neither will any of mine Pabs. You know I'm one of the biggest conventional guys out here but I would never run conventional oil out to 8k or higher. I know, we have seen the UOAs and Halvoline ran good out to 12k. BUT, thats in his truck and HIS driving conditions. There is no reason to take oil that is lower priced and run it forever. Leave that up to the higher cost syns! (BUT, I'm still in the camp that if you do decide to run past the mfg oil change interval, you SHOULD be getting UOAs to MAKE sure that all is good!) Nope, for me.. I'll take my cheap oil and filter and just change it every 4-5k and get on with it.. Take care, Bill
 
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866
Location
Norway
Quote:
Group I&II's have higher natural solvency of sludge, but are poorer in performanHece in all other categories.
Here we go again Look at your other thread to see what people think of your statement..
 
Messages
454
Location
Cheyenne
Quote:
Quote:
I'm thinking that no engine of mine will have Group 1 oil in it for 8K+ miles
Neither will any of mine Pabs. You know I'm one of the biggest conventional guys out here but I would never run conventional oil out to 8k or higher. I know, we have seen the UOAs and Halvoline ran good out to 12k. BUT, thats in his truck and HIS driving conditions. There is no reason to take oil that is lower priced and run it forever. Leave that up to the higher cost syns! (BUT, I'm still in the camp that if you do decide to run past the mfg oil change interval, you SHOULD be getting UOAs to MAKE sure that all is good!) Nope, for me.. I'll take my cheap oil and filter and just change it every 4-5k and get on with it.. Take care, Bill
Somebody actually had good OUA's out to 12K on Havoline dino? That's awesome! Why the ________ am I spending my hard earned money on syn?
 
Messages
2,233
Location
Wisconsin
Quote:
So, why would CP change to a synthetic blend for their SM oils if there is no benefit to synthetic oil?
ConocoPhillips brokers and markets Grp III base oils supplied by S-Oil from the Onsan, South Korea refinery. This refinery is supposed to be the largest GrpII nameplate capacity refinery in the world. Since CP has a source for low cost Grp III base oils, and the CP line of base oils does not include Grp II+ products, the blending of Grp II and Grp III to meet the GF-4 spec's is just a matter of utilizing all in-house resources. The majority of GF-4 spec 5W oils are mixed from Grp II+ basestocks.
 
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