Does anyone have a part number for the gallon or 5L sizes of this oil? I just stopped by my local Toyota dealer at lunch and he said all he can get is a quart or a 55 gallon drum. No gallon sizes are available, according to him.
Is Toyota 0W-20 SN made in heaven?
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Originally Posted By: buster
I'm with G-MAN on this. I think if anything, this oil is more similar or is a variation of Mobil Super 0w20, only specifically formulated for Toyota. So it's a really good Group III, but doesn't quite have the extreme performance benefits of M1 0w20.
I highly doubt XOM is givnig Toyota a better formulation to Toyota than what they offer for their flaghship oil, Mobil 1.
TGMO is an impressive oil and it gives the best engine response in the Honda 2.4L. The only negative thing I can say about it is the engine is bit more noisy. M1 AFE 0w20/30 keep the 2.4L the quietest among all oils.
So, is the Idemitsu (Mazda OEM) 0W-20 a 'superior' product now if the above info is assumed correct? If so, it will be what is going in my Toyota ---as it is already in my Mazda
I'm with G-MAN on this. I think if anything, this oil is more similar or is a variation of Mobil Super 0w20, only specifically formulated for Toyota. So it's a really good Group III, but doesn't quite have the extreme performance benefits of M1 0w20.
I highly doubt XOM is givnig Toyota a better formulation to Toyota than what they offer for their flaghship oil, Mobil 1.
TGMO is an impressive oil and it gives the best engine response in the Honda 2.4L. The only negative thing I can say about it is the engine is bit more noisy. M1 AFE 0w20/30 keep the 2.4L the quietest among all oils.
So, is the Idemitsu (Mazda OEM) 0W-20 a 'superior' product now if the above info is assumed correct? If so, it will be what is going in my Toyota ---as it is already in my Mazda
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Does anyone have a part number for the gallon or 5L sizes of this oil? I just stopped by my local Toyota dealer at lunch and he said all he can get is a quart or a 55 gallon drum. No gallon sizes are available, according to him.
That's what I have been trying to explain to Vstrom. According to the Toyota bulletin I posted above, the only part no available from the parts department is the quart size. The "gallon" part no is not available from the parts department but only sold through an agreement between ExxonMobil/Toyota and a shop/dealer as bulk oil, and by bulk I think they literally mean bulk oil that's pumped into your storage tank from a distribution truck.
I've had many occasions in the past with the Toyota dealer parts departments that they thought they could get some certain part no (for a replacement Toyota part) and only later they would find out that the part no is actually not available. It would be no surprise that the dealer sees something on his computer for that part no, which he doesn't know what it is, and it will fail when he actually tries to order it. I've dealt with Toyota parts departments so many times that I know this very well.
The part no in question is this (from toyotapartszone.com):
Part no: 00279-0W201
0W-20 bulk oil
List price: $18.17
Sale price: $13.34
You can go to a Toyota dealer to see if you can actually get a gallon jug for this part no. My guess is almost certainly no but perhaps I am wrong, and I would be happy to be wrong because I would then go get it myself.
Does anyone have a part number for the gallon or 5L sizes of this oil? I just stopped by my local Toyota dealer at lunch and he said all he can get is a quart or a 55 gallon drum. No gallon sizes are available, according to him.
That's what I have been trying to explain to Vstrom. According to the Toyota bulletin I posted above, the only part no available from the parts department is the quart size. The "gallon" part no is not available from the parts department but only sold through an agreement between ExxonMobil/Toyota and a shop/dealer as bulk oil, and by bulk I think they literally mean bulk oil that's pumped into your storage tank from a distribution truck.
I've had many occasions in the past with the Toyota dealer parts departments that they thought they could get some certain part no (for a replacement Toyota part) and only later they would find out that the part no is actually not available. It would be no surprise that the dealer sees something on his computer for that part no, which he doesn't know what it is, and it will fail when he actually tries to order it. I've dealt with Toyota parts departments so many times that I know this very well.
The part no in question is this (from toyotapartszone.com):
Part no: 00279-0W201
0W-20 bulk oil
List price: $18.17
Sale price: $13.34
You can go to a Toyota dealer to see if you can actually get a gallon jug for this part no. My guess is almost certainly no but perhaps I am wrong, and I would be happy to be wrong because I would then go get it myself.
Gokhan, have you noticed any increase in oil consumption in your high mileage Corolla over the PYB 5W-20 your were running previously?
Originally Posted By: JDD
Originally Posted By: buster
I'm with G-MAN on this. I think if anything, this oil is more similar or is a variation of Mobil Super 0w20, only specifically formulated for Toyota. So it's a really good Group III, but doesn't quite have the extreme performance benefits of M1 0w20.
I highly doubt XOM is givnig Toyota a better formulation to Toyota than what they offer for their flaghship oil, Mobil 1.
TGMO is an impressive oil and it gives the best engine response in the Honda 2.4L. The only negative thing I can say about it is the engine is bit more noisy. M1 AFE 0w20/30 keep the 2.4L the quietest among all oils.
So, is the Idemitsu (Mazda OEM) 0W-20 a 'superior' product now if the above info is assumed correct? If so, it will be what is going in my Toyota ---as it is already in my Mazda
No, ExxonMobil is a better oil company than Idemitsu, and apparently Idemitsu varies greatly from batch to batch and is a hit-or-miss.
It's been repeated so many times but we repeat it again: Toyota 0W-20 SN is a completely different oil than Mobil Super 0W-20 SN, which uses the cheaper Afton additive package with Liquid Titanium and has no moly. Toyota 0W-20 SN uses moly, more than likely the expensive ExxonMobil's trinuclear moly. Also, the viscosity index of the Toyota 0W-20 is far superior to both Mobil Super's and Mobil 1's.
Toyota 0W-20 is "specially formulated by Toyota for Toyota vehicles." While that statement sounds like a cliché by a car company, it's true. It's a unique formulation manufactured by ExxonMobil according to Toyota's custom specs and should do well in most Japanese cars.
Originally Posted By: buster
I'm with G-MAN on this. I think if anything, this oil is more similar or is a variation of Mobil Super 0w20, only specifically formulated for Toyota. So it's a really good Group III, but doesn't quite have the extreme performance benefits of M1 0w20.
I highly doubt XOM is givnig Toyota a better formulation to Toyota than what they offer for their flaghship oil, Mobil 1.
TGMO is an impressive oil and it gives the best engine response in the Honda 2.4L. The only negative thing I can say about it is the engine is bit more noisy. M1 AFE 0w20/30 keep the 2.4L the quietest among all oils.
So, is the Idemitsu (Mazda OEM) 0W-20 a 'superior' product now if the above info is assumed correct? If so, it will be what is going in my Toyota ---as it is already in my Mazda
No, ExxonMobil is a better oil company than Idemitsu, and apparently Idemitsu varies greatly from batch to batch and is a hit-or-miss.
It's been repeated so many times but we repeat it again: Toyota 0W-20 SN is a completely different oil than Mobil Super 0W-20 SN, which uses the cheaper Afton additive package with Liquid Titanium and has no moly. Toyota 0W-20 SN uses moly, more than likely the expensive ExxonMobil's trinuclear moly. Also, the viscosity index of the Toyota 0W-20 is far superior to both Mobil Super's and Mobil 1's.
Toyota 0W-20 is "specially formulated by Toyota for Toyota vehicles." While that statement sounds like a cliché by a car company, it's true. It's a unique formulation manufactured by ExxonMobil according to Toyota's custom specs and should do well in most Japanese cars.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Gokhan, have you noticed any increase in oil consumption in your high mileage Corolla over the PYB 5W-20 your were running previously?
I don't think I have any oil consumption at all but I do have a small leak at the oil-pan seal, as I see a few drops under the car.
The oil loss with PYB 5W-20 was about a half quart in seven months, 5,400 miles. I didn't even bother to add makeup oil, as the oil level at the end of the OCI was still above the mid-point between the L and F marks. So, it's about 0.1 quart per month or per 1,000 miles, due to this small leak. With the 15W-40, it was about half that because it's about twice thicker at the room temperature.
0W-20 is slightly thinner at room temperature than 5W-20; so, this small leak at the oil-pan seal will probably increase a little bit more with it.
If you are asking if I've actually seen an increase in oil-level drop with 0W-20 over 5W-20, this is impossible to answer because the oil level drops so slowly in my engine that I can't see any drop at all for the first few months. Having changed the valve-stem oil seals seem to have completely eliminated the oil consumption in this engine and the only oil-level drop I can see is being caused by a small leak at the oil-pan seal, which only becomes noticeable after a couple of months.
Gokhan, have you noticed any increase in oil consumption in your high mileage Corolla over the PYB 5W-20 your were running previously?
I don't think I have any oil consumption at all but I do have a small leak at the oil-pan seal, as I see a few drops under the car.
The oil loss with PYB 5W-20 was about a half quart in seven months, 5,400 miles. I didn't even bother to add makeup oil, as the oil level at the end of the OCI was still above the mid-point between the L and F marks. So, it's about 0.1 quart per month or per 1,000 miles, due to this small leak. With the 15W-40, it was about half that because it's about twice thicker at the room temperature.
0W-20 is slightly thinner at room temperature than 5W-20; so, this small leak at the oil-pan seal will probably increase a little bit more with it.
If you are asking if I've actually seen an increase in oil-level drop with 0W-20 over 5W-20, this is impossible to answer because the oil level drops so slowly in my engine that I can't see any drop at all for the first few months. Having changed the valve-stem oil seals seem to have completely eliminated the oil consumption in this engine and the only oil-level drop I can see is being caused by a small leak at the oil-pan seal, which only becomes noticeable after a couple of months.
Originally Posted By: JDD
Originally Posted By: buster
So, is the Idemitsu (Mazda OEM) 0W-20 a 'superior' product now if the above info is assumed correct? If so, it will be what is going in my Toyota ---as it is already in my Mazda
As Gokhan pointed out the TGMO 0W-20 bares no similarity to any existing Mobil 0W-20 product.
The Idemitsu (Mazda, Mitsubishi and Cdn Honda/Acura OEM) GF-4 0W-20 is the only other OEM 0W-20 on the NA market with a VI of 197 remotely close to that of TGMO and it does contain a lot of moly.
I've run both oils and can tell you in actual service it's considerably heavier than TGMO, both on start-up and at operating temp's. It's also very shear stable.
If you are considering the Idemitsu oil make sure it's the SM GF-4 version and not the GF-5 that Subaru uses. The formulation has completely changed in the SN GF-5 version using a heavier base oil (VI of only 169) and no more moly.
Originally Posted By: buster
So, is the Idemitsu (Mazda OEM) 0W-20 a 'superior' product now if the above info is assumed correct? If so, it will be what is going in my Toyota ---as it is already in my Mazda
As Gokhan pointed out the TGMO 0W-20 bares no similarity to any existing Mobil 0W-20 product.
The Idemitsu (Mazda, Mitsubishi and Cdn Honda/Acura OEM) GF-4 0W-20 is the only other OEM 0W-20 on the NA market with a VI of 197 remotely close to that of TGMO and it does contain a lot of moly.
I've run both oils and can tell you in actual service it's considerably heavier than TGMO, both on start-up and at operating temp's. It's also very shear stable.
If you are considering the Idemitsu oil make sure it's the SM GF-4 version and not the GF-5 that Subaru uses. The formulation has completely changed in the SN GF-5 version using a heavier base oil (VI of only 169) and no more moly.
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: JDD
Originally Posted By: buster
I'm with G-MAN on this. I think if anything, this oil is more similar or is a variation of Mobil Super 0w20, only specifically formulated for Toyota. So it's a really good Group III, but doesn't quite have the extreme performance benefits of M1 0w20.
I highly doubt XOM is givnig Toyota a better formulation to Toyota than what they offer for their flaghship oil, Mobil 1.
TGMO is an impressive oil and it gives the best engine response in the Honda 2.4L. The only negative thing I can say about it is the engine is bit more noisy. M1 AFE 0w20/30 keep the 2.4L the quietest among all oils.
So, is the Idemitsu (Mazda OEM) 0W-20 a 'superior' product now if the above info is assumed correct? If so, it will be what is going in my Toyota ---as it is already in my Mazda
No, ExxonMobil is a better oil company than Idemitsu, and apparently Idemitsu varies greatly from batch to batch and is a hit-or-miss.
It's been repeated so many times but we repeat it again: Toyota 0W-20 SN is a completely different oil than Mobil Super 0W-20 SN, which uses the cheaper Afton additive package with Liquid Titanium and has no moly. Toyota 0W-20 SN uses moly, more than likely the expensive ExxonMobil's trinuclear moly. Also, the viscosity index of the Toyota 0W-20 is far superior to both Mobil Super's and Mobil 1's.
Toyota 0W-20 is "specially formulated by Toyota for Toyota vehicles." While that statement sounds like a cliché by a car company, it's true. It's a unique formulation manufactured by ExxonMobil according to Toyota's custom specs and should do well in most Japanese cars.
I have a hard time believing this.
Toyota 0w20 oil is pretty much the cheapest 0w20 on the market, yet you are saying that it is using more expensive additives than Mobil Super, which is a more expensive oil. Obviously nobody takes a loss selling this oil, but oil business has pretty small margins to begin with, so I'm not sure how Exxon can pull it off just for Toyota.
Originally Posted By: JDD
Originally Posted By: buster
I'm with G-MAN on this. I think if anything, this oil is more similar or is a variation of Mobil Super 0w20, only specifically formulated for Toyota. So it's a really good Group III, but doesn't quite have the extreme performance benefits of M1 0w20.
I highly doubt XOM is givnig Toyota a better formulation to Toyota than what they offer for their flaghship oil, Mobil 1.
TGMO is an impressive oil and it gives the best engine response in the Honda 2.4L. The only negative thing I can say about it is the engine is bit more noisy. M1 AFE 0w20/30 keep the 2.4L the quietest among all oils.
So, is the Idemitsu (Mazda OEM) 0W-20 a 'superior' product now if the above info is assumed correct? If so, it will be what is going in my Toyota ---as it is already in my Mazda
No, ExxonMobil is a better oil company than Idemitsu, and apparently Idemitsu varies greatly from batch to batch and is a hit-or-miss.
It's been repeated so many times but we repeat it again: Toyota 0W-20 SN is a completely different oil than Mobil Super 0W-20 SN, which uses the cheaper Afton additive package with Liquid Titanium and has no moly. Toyota 0W-20 SN uses moly, more than likely the expensive ExxonMobil's trinuclear moly. Also, the viscosity index of the Toyota 0W-20 is far superior to both Mobil Super's and Mobil 1's.
Toyota 0W-20 is "specially formulated by Toyota for Toyota vehicles." While that statement sounds like a cliché by a car company, it's true. It's a unique formulation manufactured by ExxonMobil according to Toyota's custom specs and should do well in most Japanese cars.
I have a hard time believing this.
Toyota 0w20 oil is pretty much the cheapest 0w20 on the market, yet you are saying that it is using more expensive additives than Mobil Super, which is a more expensive oil. Obviously nobody takes a loss selling this oil, but oil business has pretty small margins to begin with, so I'm not sure how Exxon can pull it off just for Toyota.
I'm not sure what's so hard to believe? The oil properties of the oil are completely different than Mobil Super. They share no similarities, at all.
Also, who actually knows the cost of production of Mobil Super vs. the Toyota oil? Mobil oils have a lot of associated costs (advertising/distribution) that the Toyota oils do not. Toyota is in the engine business, not the oil business. So who knows how much they're actually paying for the oil (not at the dealer level but at the mfg level). There are a lot of unknowns with respect to production costs, and Toyota doesn't really sell much of this oil aftermarket.
Ultimately, the composition of the oil speaks for itself, or at least it should. It appears to be a better product than what Mobil sells under its own name.
Also, who actually knows the cost of production of Mobil Super vs. the Toyota oil? Mobil oils have a lot of associated costs (advertising/distribution) that the Toyota oils do not. Toyota is in the engine business, not the oil business. So who knows how much they're actually paying for the oil (not at the dealer level but at the mfg level). There are a lot of unknowns with respect to production costs, and Toyota doesn't really sell much of this oil aftermarket.
Ultimately, the composition of the oil speaks for itself, or at least it should. It appears to be a better product than what Mobil sells under its own name.
I should've been more specific. I have a hard time believing this:
Quote:
...Mobil Super 0W-20 SN, which uses the cheaper Afton additive package with Liquid Titanium and has no moly. Toyota 0W-20 SN uses moly, more than likely the expensive ExxonMobil's trinuclear moly. Also, the viscosity index of the Toyota 0W-20 is far superior to both Mobil Super's and Mobil 1's.
These claims strike me as odd without any backup documentation. Unless I missed something...
Quote:
...Mobil Super 0W-20 SN, which uses the cheaper Afton additive package with Liquid Titanium and has no moly. Toyota 0W-20 SN uses moly, more than likely the expensive ExxonMobil's trinuclear moly. Also, the viscosity index of the Toyota 0W-20 is far superior to both Mobil Super's and Mobil 1's.
These claims strike me as odd without any backup documentation. Unless I missed something...
I wonder if Toyota is selling much closer to cost than retailers? Remember too that private label stuff is usually sold a bit cheaper to the customer than a companies own labeled product. No marketing costs, possibly little or reduced distribution costs, maybe Toyota footed the bill for 100% R&D. Many buisiness reasons that TGMO could be cheaper.
I have a bit of trouble with the Afton part, although I don't know one way or the other. Doesn't XOM own or partially own Infineum?
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Although some have claimed to have bought the oil cheaper, in my area the TGMO is 6 USD/qt. Thats pretty expensive. Puts it right up there with M1 HM and M1 0W-40 at my Meijer.
Liquid Titanium, used in Mobil Super, is manufactured by Afton. Therefore, Mobil Super is using an Afton additive package.
Yes, Infineum is coowned by ExxonMobil and Shell. ExxonMobil sometimes uses Infineum additive packages but not always. Same goes for Shell as well.
Yes, Infineum is coowned by ExxonMobil and Shell. ExxonMobil sometimes uses Infineum additive packages but not always. Same goes for Shell as well.
What is liquid Titanium???
Toyota 0W-20 SN is not cheap at all. I was asked as much $12 per quart. Its cost to the dealer is about $4 per quart. Mobil 1 doesn't cost much higher (if any higher at all) to the retailers either, despite its huge advertisement costs. You can get Mobil 1 for $5 per quart when there is a sale at the auto store, cheaper than you can ever get the Toyota 0W-20 after really hard negotiation at the Toyota dealer parts department. I paid $5.50 but that's only after good negotiation and showing them the price from another nearby dealer which has the Trademotion online ordering system. You will be lucky if you can get this premium synthetic for $7 otherwise.
Originally Posted By: chiks
What is liquid Titanium???
Titanium dioxide nanoparticles (actually a solid, used to give the toothpaste its white color), used as a new antiwear / friction-modifier additive instead of the usual moly or organic compounds. Like moly and other secondary antiwear additives, it's used to supplement, increase the potency of, and the reduce the friction caused by ZDDP, the main antiwear additive used in motor oil.
What is liquid Titanium???
Titanium dioxide nanoparticles (actually a solid, used to give the toothpaste its white color), used as a new antiwear / friction-modifier additive instead of the usual moly or organic compounds. Like moly and other secondary antiwear additives, it's used to supplement, increase the potency of, and the reduce the friction caused by ZDDP, the main antiwear additive used in motor oil.
Going to add to this thread, seems appropriate, the following Motor Trend article (this month) about the Mobil technical centre in Paulboro, NJ:
http://wot.motortrend.com/the-science-and-smoke-behind-nascars-mobil-1-motor-oil-229627.html
The part of relevence;
" It all starts at the technical centre's blending lab where 500 blends are produced a month......
.....the blends are put to work in every thing from a Chevy Camaro to a Toyota Prius...."
So Mobil is not just making the TGMO 0W-20 to Toyota's spec's but is continuing to modify the formulation undoubtedly in partnership with Toyota.
http://wot.motortrend.com/the-science-and-smoke-behind-nascars-mobil-1-motor-oil-229627.html
The part of relevence;
" It all starts at the technical centre's blending lab where 500 blends are produced a month......
.....the blends are put to work in every thing from a Chevy Camaro to a Toyota Prius...."
So Mobil is not just making the TGMO 0W-20 to Toyota's spec's but is continuing to modify the formulation undoubtedly in partnership with Toyota.
Nice article, as well is the article linked in that article, CATERHAM, thanks.
what does the pour point from the msds tell us about the quality? I thought this was kind of high for synthetic? Pour Point: -27°C (-17°F).
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