I'd rather drive a manual trans diesel car than an arcade game hybrid. These hybrids have got to be a thrill to troubleshoot when something goes wrong. What does the diy guy do, pull out his five thousand dollar diagnostic computer and fix his own problems? The rules of the road that reward hybrids and ban diesels sound like monkey business to me. Maybe we should tell the lawmakers that all these Class 8 trucks are diesel, maybe they don't know.
Is anyone bothered by complexity?
- Thread starter LarryL
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Don't forget the personal protective equipment required for dealing with high amperage, high voltage power supplies.
Gee, do you think that if you buy a hybrid you'll have to go back to the dealer for all your service. High voltage won't be the only shock you get from owning a hybrid. Do you think there will be alternate sources for the kind of parts that are unique to your hybrid and will shut it down if they fail? I can imagine what Honda dealer will do with this kind of situation. If you have to kiss their hinnie to buy a Honda model that is in high demand I wonder what they have in mind for an electrical part for one if these hybrids when it goes out of warranty.
15 year/150,000 mi emissions control warranty in California on all hybrid components. 10 year/120,000 mile warranty on the battery pack. A recent Edmunds chat with a Lexus representative said that battery packs have been able to go 180k in bench testing with minimal degradation.
What else do you want?
LarryL,
Not to worry....when young Mr Wan reaches our age, he'll be a cynical SOB as well. He'll soon learn that even the best engineers aren't infallible.
I think you need to get sell all the cars, get a horse and a ranch in Nevada someplace...
TS
Not to worry....when young Mr Wan reaches our age, he'll be a cynical SOB as well. He'll soon learn that even the best engineers aren't infallible.
I think you need to get sell all the cars, get a horse and a ranch in Nevada someplace...
TS
But they havent tested the batterys for 10 years??
They have mimic some type of end of life simulation and then claim 10/120. But what about the poor fool who buys the car at age 7 yrs with 95K on the clock. 3 years later he is looking at a expensive repair.
Also you now have a transaxle, gas engine, electric motor, battery pack, low voltage wiring, high voltage wiring, cooling system, AC, exhaust, all cramed into a small package. Will be a PITA to work on. Of course most of the people up here in Maine who but them dont have a clue of what they are getting into on the maintenance side. I talked to one guy at a gas station about his Prius and how he liked it. Aside from it stranding him twice for the software hidden recall
he generally liked it but it was his wifes car. Asked him about maintenance and he said he would send to dealer on the wife's dime and admitted it was a nightmare to do basic stuff on.
They have mimic some type of end of life simulation and then claim 10/120. But what about the poor fool who buys the car at age 7 yrs with 95K on the clock. 3 years later he is looking at a expensive repair.
Also you now have a transaxle, gas engine, electric motor, battery pack, low voltage wiring, high voltage wiring, cooling system, AC, exhaust, all cramed into a small package. Will be a PITA to work on. Of course most of the people up here in Maine who but them dont have a clue of what they are getting into on the maintenance side. I talked to one guy at a gas station about his Prius and how he liked it. Aside from it stranding him twice for the software hidden recall
he generally liked it but it was his wifes car. Asked him about maintenance and he said he would send to dealer on the wife's dime and admitted it was a nightmare to do basic stuff on.
Kestas
Staff member
VNT, I wouldn't fret too much. This will all wash out in the resale value of the hybrid. I don't think anyone will pay much for a non-DIY vehicle that has reached the end of its life. I don't hink anybody on this board would, either.
Meanwhile, a well-maintained Civic or Corolla will fetch decent money after 95K. All we can do is watch the jaws drop on hybrid owners when the time comes.
Meanwhile, a well-maintained Civic or Corolla will fetch decent money after 95K. All we can do is watch the jaws drop on hybrid owners when the time comes.
Ted, I like the idea of a ranch in Nevada, but if I get a horse, I want one with an instruction book, air bags and good brakes.
I'm glad to hear about the 150k warranty on emission control stuff, but there are lots of other expensive, complicated stuff that falls outside of that warranty. I think that warranty is going to be tough to handle because it takes the manufacturer and the owner into unknown territory. At least it keeps bringing you back to the dealer and puts you into the hands of a service salesman. What more could you want.
I'm glad to hear about the 150k warranty on emission control stuff, but there are lots of other expensive, complicated stuff that falls outside of that warranty. I think that warranty is going to be tough to handle because it takes the manufacturer and the owner into unknown territory. At least it keeps bringing you back to the dealer and puts you into the hands of a service salesman. What more could you want.
Kesta
I am an EE and work with high voltage power equipment(12KV -345KV). All out equipment in a Substation operates on battery back up. we spend 100K per station for batteries so I dont buy the line they will last 10 years.
Hybrids are simply a propoganda tool for any OEM but are a waste of corporate dollars which could be better invested in other technologies which arent as complicated and would be of better value to the end user/customer. Think diesel.
I am an EE and work with high voltage power equipment(12KV -345KV). All out equipment in a Substation operates on battery back up. we spend 100K per station for batteries so I dont buy the line they will last 10 years.
Hybrids are simply a propoganda tool for any OEM but are a waste of corporate dollars which could be better invested in other technologies which arent as complicated and would be of better value to the end user/customer. Think diesel.
TS, Cynicysm is just an ugly way of telling the truth.
Urban legend? A fable? Or is there truth in the tale I heard decades ago.... before political correctness permeated our society?
The tank truck driver wrecked his truck. Trapped in the crushed cab the tank trailer started leaking due to a rupture.
The potent acid was draining, flowing onto the driver, whose flesh was being eaten away.
Screaming in mortal agony the California Highway Patrolman who came upon the scene was diverting traffic while waiting for rescue personnel to arrive.
Witnesses said that the trucker, stuck in that crushed cab, unable to be removed, was begging, screaming out, to be relieved of the unbearable pain.
Supposedly, witnesses were able to see the trucker actually "dissolving" before their eyes!!!
Unable to bear the event, the tale tells of the CHP using his weapon to end the guy's misery.
Investigation later determined the trucker had no chance of surviving.... that he would have died in horrible agoony, that the CHP had actually done the guy a favor but that he had to be let go from his job for political reasons.
The tale ends with the CHP not being charged with a crime though he still lost his job. The trucker's family is said to have thanked the CHP for doing what he did to stop the horrid suffering.
No proof...... the tale was told by fireman in the San Francisco Bay area back in the early 1960s.
Recalling that tale/fable/story/whatever I ponder the after-effects of a severe crash where a hybrid vehicle's battery ruptures, allowing the caustic fluid to enter the passenger compartment where the occupant(s) are unable to escape.
I haven't read anywhere of the possibility or impossibility of such an event occurring.
The tank truck driver wrecked his truck. Trapped in the crushed cab the tank trailer started leaking due to a rupture.
The potent acid was draining, flowing onto the driver, whose flesh was being eaten away.
Screaming in mortal agony the California Highway Patrolman who came upon the scene was diverting traffic while waiting for rescue personnel to arrive.
Witnesses said that the trucker, stuck in that crushed cab, unable to be removed, was begging, screaming out, to be relieved of the unbearable pain.
Supposedly, witnesses were able to see the trucker actually "dissolving" before their eyes!!!
Unable to bear the event, the tale tells of the CHP using his weapon to end the guy's misery.
Investigation later determined the trucker had no chance of surviving.... that he would have died in horrible agoony, that the CHP had actually done the guy a favor but that he had to be let go from his job for political reasons.
The tale ends with the CHP not being charged with a crime though he still lost his job. The trucker's family is said to have thanked the CHP for doing what he did to stop the horrid suffering.
No proof...... the tale was told by fireman in the San Francisco Bay area back in the early 1960s.
Recalling that tale/fable/story/whatever I ponder the after-effects of a severe crash where a hybrid vehicle's battery ruptures, allowing the caustic fluid to enter the passenger compartment where the occupant(s) are unable to escape.
I haven't read anywhere of the possibility or impossibility of such an event occurring.
Anyone want to cut up an NiMH D-cell and see how much liquid comes out?
No takers? Come on, it'd be fun...
You could also cut up a lithium battery and see if it really does explode when exposed to water, too.
You could also cut up a lithium battery and see if it really does explode when exposed to water, too.
Obbop:
As to the snipped out part of your post, I dunno whether it's a legend or not, though I suspect it is. OTOH, who knows... FWIW, the law school hypothetical version of the story usually ends with a murder charge. Of course the morality and ethics of such a hellish scenario can be debated all day. That said, I've yet to encounter in my practice a homicide statute that has a "but the victim was dissolving in powerful acid" exception or defense.
Moving on the the hybrid thing, I think you can dismiss that concern, at least on a practical level. I've had my Prius for about a month now, and I've looked it over pretty well. Both the location of the traction battery (essentially in the top part of the space of where a gas tank sits, medium suitcase sized), and its incredibly stout construction, suggest that the true battery hazard is minimal. In short, the car would have to be so incredibly mangled for the battery to rupture and find itself where it could spill anything on the occupants, that the occupants would also likely be fatally mangled. Anyway, I'm not losing any sleep over it.
Brian:
I nominate you as our official battery cutter! Please be sure to wear proper protective gear and report your results back to us promptly!
I've taken apart alkaline and carbon-zinc batteries, but I'm drawing the line there!
Brian and Obbop:
I should add that there is one scary aspect of Prius ownership, IMO: the multiple ominous warnings in the manuals not to mess with the thick orange cables that snake around the car from the batt pack to the engine room. As they look more than beefy enough to supply the juice for an electric chair, I've definitely resolved to leave them alone!
And Brian, no need to be afraid, I'm sure the membership here will chip in to cover the medical bills. . .
I should add that there is one scary aspect of Prius ownership, IMO: the multiple ominous warnings in the manuals not to mess with the thick orange cables that snake around the car from the batt pack to the engine room. As they look more than beefy enough to supply the juice for an electric chair, I've definitely resolved to leave them alone!
And Brian, no need to be afraid, I'm sure the membership here will chip in to cover the medical bills. . .
I'm sure they can supply as much juice as the electric service to your home, if only for a short period of time.
Which brings up a question--who tests these cars to ensure that the electrical parts are safe?
Practically every electrical appliance you buy (which the exception of cheapo computer power supplies) has been tested by CSA or UL or some other testing lab to ensure that it won't fail in a way that will kill you or start a fire.
How about hybrid cars? The voltage and current levels in these present much more of a potential hazard than does the 12V of regular cars. And I've seen some really shoddy 12V wiring, on cars of all makes.
Which brings up a question--who tests these cars to ensure that the electrical parts are safe?
Practically every electrical appliance you buy (which the exception of cheapo computer power supplies) has been tested by CSA or UL or some other testing lab to ensure that it won't fail in a way that will kill you or start a fire.
How about hybrid cars? The voltage and current levels in these present much more of a potential hazard than does the 12V of regular cars. And I've seen some really shoddy 12V wiring, on cars of all makes.
Well, I haven't noticed any UL stickers, like our toaster has, but the wiring looks like really high quality, well executed stuff. But I'm still leaving it the heck alone. . .
Aren't the hybrid battery packs a gazallion tiny cells? Unlikely to damage enough of them to be a problem?
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